I read the 44 Mag "hot bear loads" threads, in anticipation for my hopeful retirement in salmon country.

I understand the premise that "if you need more gun, get a .500" but what I think some are missing is that the 329 is a 24oz .44 mag, and to get "more gun" you need to more than double the weight of the gun. That is fine for hanging around the camp, not so good if hiking all day.

If I ever have to use a +P load, it will be because my life is in danger and I won't care if the gun gets beat up. I don't plan to mingle with grizzlies...

So anyway, who has any info on the hottest load for the M329 that won't blow it up? tia Skip

I shot mine with 23.5 gr WW296 and a 250 cast SWC from a RCBS mold and also 20 gr 2400 with the same bullet. They sting, but both are accurate. In bear country I would think You would like 1000 FPS better as follow up shots are easier and penetration doesn't differ that much.

I haven't sought out the "hottest" 44 Mag bear loads for my Ruger Alaskan.

But I figure this should get the job done.
HSM AMMUNITION BEAR LOAD 44 MAGNUM AMMO | Brownells

You will probably need a quick recovery for another shot . They can cover almost 50 feet per second. I suggest you start out with lighter loads and work your way up practicing recovery time for that second shot . I had a 329 PD , l loaded it from mild to wild . 2nd shot recovery time required on the upper end loads required a lot of practice . Good luck , regards Paul

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these so-called (i.e. unofficial) "+P" loads boutique ammo manufacturers are offering as well as +P+ loads are just trying to turn a cartridge into something it's not, and if you feel that more is needed over Standard Pressure or SAAMI Spec +P loads, then buy a new firearm chambered in a more powerful cartridge.

Full power .44 Magnum loads are already sufficient for all North American game, regardless of what some folks who have never set foot in the wilderness, much less seen a bear outside of a zoo may assert.
But hey, if you feel that more power is necessary, then by all means go out and buy yourself a new firearm chambered in .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, .500 S&W Magnum, or whatever you please, but don't go ruining a perfectly good .44 Magnum Revolver by stuffing it full of overpressure ammo just because some folks on the internet are convinced that Bears are some sort of mythical creature who is all but impervious to damage from mortal weaponry.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I agree, fire ammo you can make good hits with and recover quickly for a follow-up shot. A few fps more might hinder saving your life. Find ammo with a good hunting bullet that will hold together when hitting bone and practice with it.

Good luck.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

44 Magnum +P is a solution in search of a problem.

Well, let me ask another way. Assuming I am going to carry a M329 as my only pistol, what ammo to use in grizzly country? My reading indicates I will be lucky to get off one shot, very lucky to get 2, and unlikely to get 3 at a charging bear. So 1 shot of something I can recover with, and a second shot of the biggest the gun can handle?

I can't figure out why some of you are so hung up on thinking it's pointless to try and squeeze the most power possible out of a cartridge. I understand your point, but telling people to buy another caliber if factory 44mag isn't enough seems counterproductive. You don't have to be a handloader to appreciate the nuance between different loadings for the same caliber. 44mag is very versatile. Why not utilize its versatility?

All this being said, "+p" out of a 329 would be BRUTAL as far as recoil goes.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

I think the reasons many of us see as operative in this and similar cases are (1) bullet construction and performance are likely much more important than another grain of powder and maybe 50 FPS of velocity, and, more important, (2) there is at least the appearance that ammunition tinkering is being given more consideration than marksmanship.

The .44 Magnum is difficult enough to shoot quickly in a standard weight gun with standard ammunition. I doubt there is more than a handful in a hundred among us who can effectively use a 329PD at maximum speed, fewer still with off-the-chart ammunition. If someone has that level of skill, it seems unlikely he would come here for advice.

The 329 is a marvelous revolver for its intended purpose. Unfortunately, I’ve seen very few shooters who can claim to be a master of it. (All of this JMHO, of course. )

Gotta wonder if these internet experts think anyone ever dropped a bear back in the day with black powder cartridges or "worse" yet, a muzzle loader! Bears must have been ruling the roost until ole Elmer Keith came along.

The only animal a 44 Mag may not be enough for on this continent is a polar bear.

Be sure the load you select has a cannelure and the bullet is crimped into it. A 329 with hot loaded, heavy bullet ammo is going to due its best to pull the bullets out of the case when fired. You will not know if this is a problem unless you fire at least a few cylinders through your gun.

I have never owned a Ruger 44 but people who do have told me the cylinder is a little longer than on S&W revolvers and that some "Ruger only" ammo takes advantage of that extra length. If that is correct ammo made for a Super Redhawk would not even fit in your 329. Even if it did I wouldn't risk the extra pressure.

If it was me I would look for something with a heavy hard cast bullet loaded into ammo rated as "safe for all guns" and avoid the +P or "Ruger only" loads. Something like 44 Remington Magnum 305 Grain Lead Long Flat Nose Gas Check – Underwood Ammo from Underwood. If there are going to be problems with +P ammo it would show up first in light guns like your 329. The only way to tell would be to test it. Testing ammo that strong in a 24 ounce gun sounds pretty painful.

Have two friends with 329s that I have shot with mid-range and some full Magnum ammo...no thanks...

Had the same gun in .41 Magnum, both the 357PD and NG and eventually sent both down the road...

The Mountain Gun is not much heavier, better balanced and much easier to shoot with ammo loaded to defend oneself from bear...

Bob

I've hunted griz in extreme northern BC and would be completely comfortable with a 40 S&W with 180 grain FMJFP or 10 mm with 200 grain FMJ. Any hard 357 158-180 grain or hard 41 or 44 mag would be just fine as well. Only penetration matters with griz, and you need to get through hard skill or thick hide + fat to kill them or dissuade them.

Incidentally, the Canucks I hunted with recommended shooting ALL bears, black and griz, in a front shoulder first if you can, then finish them while their mobility is impaired.

I'm sure they believe that it took an entire battalion of men shooting the bear simultaneously at point-blank range, (since the Bear could dodge/outrun the projectiles otherwise) then sticking it with sabers/bayonets 100 times, and even then only 3 of them made it home.
Also, given the ever-growing sentiment that .44 Magnum isn't enough for bears, they were apparently ruling the roost until S&W came out with the .500 S&W Magnum.

If .44 Magnum isn't enough for Polar Bear then why do so many folks in Alaska carry 10mm Glocks and why aren't their more articles on all the times 10mm failed to stop Polar Bears? People grossly underestimate the advances in cartridge/bullet technology which have been made over the past few decades. With proper ammo selection and shot placement, even .357 Magnum or .45 Long Colt can be used effectively for Bear Defense in a pinch, and I'm talking about big Bears here.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Indeed. The feared bison and griz rifle of the late 19th century, the 45/90, fired a 330 grain Express bullet at 1700 fps.

Groo here
I talked to the owners of KUDU custom from Alaska...[sold out]
They developed a bear load for the 329.
A 250 gr HARD cast SWC heavy crimp at 1100 fps.
Those who had to use same stated that few if any bullets were found..
The keys are a hard bullet , not too big a flat on the nose,
and about 1100 fps.
Keith said "once you shoot through your target, extra power
just makes more kick and noise, a little flatter arc and making the
holes farther away.
A bear defense gun will be used at very close range so extra power
is wasted.
To reloaders
the load is Hard cast, a 65% to 70 % flat on the nose, Sectional
density of .180 and a speed of 1100fps FROM YOUR GUN
AKA "The Keith Load"

The SD of a 250gr 44mag bullet is .193, a 300gr get you to .230. You'd need a 360gr bullet to get to .280 .

Groo here
Correct the SD is .188 about.......

no dog in this fight, but whats wrong with factory 240gr jsp ?

back when i had .44s that was the round. i didnt reload then

Well since back in the day, bears have evolved armor-plating. So nothing but boutique ammo will do nowadays

All of these recent talks of carrying nuclear loads being too risky for the benefit has caused me to switch to some nice Hornady 240gr XTPs after years of carrying the Buffalo Bore nuclear stuff. I feel good about it. 1350 FPS with a 240gr projectile is still enough power for anything I'll come across in VA.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

i was afraid of that 😁

When dealing with animals penetration is far more important than expansion and the risk of collateral damage is virtually nonexistent, so you want to carry ammo with a solid gas-checked or preferably hardcast semiwadcutter bullet.

You want a bullet that punches straight through fur, hide, muscle, and bone without stopping, slowing down, or deforming.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

The 240gr XTP is my "multi purpose" bullet. Truthfully I would prefer a 300gr XTP. I totally agree that a SWC would be the most effective penetrator, but I still prefer an expanding bullet to hunt with here in VA. Somewhere where the critters get much bigger and more dangerous I would probably be carrying a SWC. YMMV

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

As someone pointed out above, HSM makes what they can a Bear load. Buffalo Bore and Underwood also make similar loads. You want a 300+ Gr. Hard cast flat point bullet.

If you do get a 329, try out a cylinder of these loads to make sure you don't have any problems.

Here's an article from Tim Sundles from Buffalo Bore on Trail & Camp guns you might find helpful.

https://buffalobore.net/Trail&CampGuns.pdf

And also:

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

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Watch & Pray

I get your point. Back in the day we carried 7.5" barrel Ruger Super Blackhawks loaded with 240 hard cast that were probably making over 1,200 lb-ft of energy. I did then, and would today be supremely confident in my ability to put the first one dead center of a bear's snarling face, followed by the next five in under 2 seconds. For those who know, a single-action can be fired with blinding speed using two-handed hold, cocking with the support thumb as the gun is in recoil and right back down. With that long barrel the big Ruger "points" perfectly. When I was younger we used to run our own "drills" shooting exactly that way, for exactly that purpose.

There is a great deal of embellishment on the internet about what it takes to drop a bear and how "impossible" it is. Sadly, that's not even close to reality. Otherwise we'd have more bears.

But now, everybody wants to carry a snubnose 2" revolver that weighs 14 ounces, while thinking they can get the same power, accuracy, and speed - they can't. When magnum barrels go under 4" velocity starts dropping fast, and many factory loads are "under" loaded on top of that. Thus you end up with a lot of KICK, blast, and poor "pointability" on target. I have a beautiful M69 44 magnum that would never be my first, second, or third choice to carry with full power loads against dangerous animal attack because the gun is too light, to short, and cannot deliver the sauce a larger version with longer barrel can.

Now, having said all that, and having a lifetime of personal experience in the field of dangerous animals, my personal preference is to carry a S&W M500 6.5" barrel. It's not any heavier than larger 44 magnums, but the cartridge is so grossly overpowered, one need not worry about pushing the loads. I made up a rather modest load with a 380 grain hard cast GC slug that clocked 1,543 fps for 2,009 fpe...a VERY controllable load that I can shoot DA with excellent recovery and control as fast as I can shoot any 44. Another internet myth is that big-bore revolvers have some outlandish recoil dwell-time during which the Earth stops rotating until the gun "comes down out of recoil! This is not true. With the longer barrel, that M500 points perfectly, and I pity the bear who makes the mistake of running face-first into one of those slugs!

I do want to get in a "shameless plug" for one of my favorite big bore calibers and that's the 460 Rowland. Again, in bear country, a Glock longslide with 6.6" barrel and LWD comp weighing only 34 ounces empty, and taking 11 rounds using a fully reliable 10-rd single-stack mag, Launched Underwood's 255 gr. hard cast at 1,384 fps for 1,085 lb-ft of energy. That's nearly 1,100 foot-pounds per slug x 11 slugs = 11,935 lb-ft of energy that CAN be fired with full control and accuracy. I would have no reluctance whatsoever facing down a charging anything on the North American continent with that pistol!

But back to the point about the 44 magnum. It IS a very powerful round even today, and if fired from a larger, longer-barreled revolver, it will also take down anything foolish enough to run right up the bore axis!

If I were to be in Salmon country with the possibility of an angry bear around the corner I would not be carrying a handgun. I admit no experience with the 460 or 500 S&W offerings. I have heard of their great power and recoil. However they are still handguns and my personal preference would be my old 375 H&H with a 22" bbl and 2X power scope--very fast and easy to sight at close range and very final on anything that walks in North America. This gun is relatively easy to handle and beats most any practical handgun.

Skip anything labeled +P... A 300 grain Hard Cast "Keith" bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1150fps will put a hurtin' on a Brownie with center mass shots.

Late to the party but here is what I shoot out of my M29 MG.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

Underwood has that:
44 Remington Magnum 305 Grain Lead Long Flat Nose Gas Check – Underwood Ammo

Standard pressure 44 magnum load with a 305 grain slug.

I personally like Underwood's 255 grain SWC.

Taken from " The Sixguns and Loads of Elmer Keith " by John Taffin

"Keith early settled on 22.0 grains of 2400 with his Lyman # 429421 , 245 grain cast SWC bullet for 1225 fps out of a 4" S&W , 1400 fps out of a 6 1/2 S&W or 7 1/2 " Ruger .
These are hunting handloads pure and simple with this load taking big game all over the world. "

It's always wise to take advice doled out by Elmer Keith when it concerns the 44 magnum and sixguns .

Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I have purposely loaded Elmers 22 gr load using his bullet " HG 503 " . After the first 5-6 rounds I got used to it and found it quite easy to handle and shoot . I was using a 4" barrel (same length as Elmer used ) in a Smith 29-10 . It is a powerful load , make no mistake about it . Regards, Paul

Based on my experience the only sure way to stop a charging bear, be it black, brown, grizzly or polar is to take away his credit card.
You can close the thread now.

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Forum consigliere

And yet the urban legend persists that Elmer Keith was apparently some sort of self-destructive maniac recoil junky who was never satisfied until his handloads caused a KABOOM, just so that he could buy a stronger revolver and start over again.

Meanwhile, in reality Elmer Keith reportedly only ever blew up a single revolver in his life, a Colt Single Action Army .45, and it didn't even actually blow up because the load was too hot, but rather because he attempted to load a 45-70 bullet in a .45 Long Colt cartridge, which in turn resulted in a massive pressure spike as the .458 bullet engaged the rifling of a barrel made for .452 bullets.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Well said !
I have to agree .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

If I were concerned that a 48 ounce gun is too much for hiking all day, I'd buy lighter boots.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

Keep in mind that the 44 Magnum only has about half of the energy of a 30-30 Winchester. In spite of this, there are probably a lot of folks who would say a 30-30 is a little light for bear protection.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose.

I've been researching .44 ammo for my 629-2 Mountain Revolver. This one looks promising: Garrett Cartridges Inc., "Hammerhead" 250 grain bullet @ 1,100 fps. Or, this one: Garrett Cartridges Inc., "Defender" same 250 gr bullet at 1,000 fps. Betchya either would work just fine in a 4-inch 329.
Gila's 629 MR_b.jpg

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat