Where my friend and I woods walk is somewhere in Lolo National Forest. She has a phobia about bears. The likelihood of a bear contact or confrontation approaches zero, Nevertheless, extreme west-central Montana has a lot of bears (when compared with anywhere else in CONUS). I have two Freedom Arms Model 97s in 45 Colt for which I have 44 Magnum [equivalent] ammunition and have offered her the one of her choice for our woods walks. She owns an S&W 640-1 in 357 Magnum that she shoots quite well with 38 Special +P LSWC-HP "FBI" ammunition. She doesn't want to use a single action revolver, especially one that is significantly more powerful at both ends.

So I bought an older S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman 357 Magnum with 4-inch barrel. I want to acquire perhaps 150 rounds of 357 Magnum ammunition that will be reasonably prophylactic for that near-zero possibility of her becoming more intimate with a bear than she would prefer. I am considering 180- and 200-grain 357 Magnum ammunition. Cast bullet full power loads of factory 357 I anticipate will punch a .358-inch hole with through-and-through penetration. I have no experience with 180- and 200- grain jacketed bullets used in factory ammunition. I suspect one of them might include nose expansion while penetrating nearly as well as the cast bullet ammunition.

Anyone who has used a slightly expanding factory loaded 357 Magnum ammunition using bullets between 180 and 200 grains, please let me know. I strongly prefer replies from people who have used the ammunition on larger game animals or penetration testing of the ammunition. And please keep in mind that the 4-inch barrel will cost velocity.

Have a look at the Buffalo Bore heavy .357.

HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

If your girlfriend will be shooting the M28 I suggest not buying such a heavy bullet. A 158gr hard cast bullet or 158gr JSP bullet will be just fine. She will not like practicing with the heavy bullet especially if it's doing 1400fps like Buffalo Bore reports. This is just my opinion.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I'd prefer a larger bore in your neck of the woods, but in .357, this Swift A-Frame from Federal meets your specification.

Federal Ammunition - Swift A-Frame - P357SA

Expansion comes at the cost of less penetration. Rather than go through a big search for the perfect type of ammo I would buy some ammo with a hard cast bullet like the one Underwood uses in their 180 grain loading. I have never seen or done any testing with this particular ammo but hard cast bullets have been tested and used enough to know that if you want penetration a HC bullet is the best way to get it.

Hard cast LSWC

My first thought was, what a great role for a Glock 23. And Buffalo Bore agrees.

"Today’s polymer framed, lightweight, reliable, accurate, affordable, high capacity pistols are a great tool for use in the woods if you run proper ammo for that purpose. My wife has three Glock 23’s that she uses for woods carry simply because they weigh no more than her three inches J frame steel 357 mag., but hold almost three times the ammo and don’t chew her hand up as much. Plus, properly tailored 40 S&W ammo, is as formidable as 357 mag. ammo."

This!

I trust BB with my life.

Here are some interesting articles. If you have any questions about the product, Tim is more than happy to help you out!

NRA Articles - Phil Shoemaker & OUTDOORSMAN

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

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Jorge

Hot, heavily loaded .357s have gained ground in recent years as a bear defense round. Some cite the smaller frontal area keeps penetration high even compared to the .44 magnum and .45 Colt +P.

Have the heavy bullet ammunition. I purchased 100 rounds of Grizzly 200-grain 357 Magnum ammunition (SKU: GC357M14). She and I zeroed and shot for familiarity 43 rounds. In the absence of a chronograph to verify how closely the cartridge's muzzle velocity matches Grizzly's advertised velocity, all I can report is: the ammunition has more than satisfactory accuracy and consistency for its intended purpose; and GOOD LORD!! what a handful!

Shooting the ammunition in the Highway Patrolman brought to mind the adage: Be careful what you wish for.

With a bear load, the amount of ammo is not really important.......

because you seldom have time for more than three shots before
the bear is on you, dead or running away.

Placing a bullet in a Bear is the last thing you want to do...........
unless it is a matter of life and death !!

Getting to shoot well with accuracy from 25 yards in is mandatory. Hopefully the animal will "Bluff" and stop short of contact but there are some that are just down right mean or had a bad day at the office.......
or has a kill or cubs in the area.

Stay safe.

While I've not used the Remington 180gr SJHP factory load, I've settled on it's use for both my 4-inch S&Ws and Marlin level rifle based on video ballistics tests such as this one. The performance seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

For use on large, thick skinned, heavy boned animals, my suggestion would be similar to some others.....go with a hard cast, wide metplat, somewhat heavy for caliber. In this case, 180 or heavier. Expanding bullets , even those of controlled expansion design, are generally “not” recommended for use on potentially dangerous large animals. This is especially important at handgun velocities! My experiences are with a 44 Mag., but the limitations are pretty similar! memtb

IMO ammo from Grizzly Cartridges and a few other like Garrett are true hunting ammo loads and not velocity gimmicks like the buzz names that many throw around on forums. If you are hunting with handguns or using handguns for true threats in the woods you will be very well served by Grizzly Cartridges ammo but be sure to practice with it so you can learn to shoot it well.

The bullets used are more important than the velocity numbers, again IMO.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

check out the Buffalo Bore offerings

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Merle, retired
western PA

I've had very good success in the past with the Corbon 200gr Lead bullet for Hogs. It will penetrate and break bones very well. I would think it would be great for bear as well. I've had trouble finding it, so I've got some Cast Performance 200gr Lead with Gas Check Loaded up but have not tried for accuracy.

Penetration is king here. If my butt was on the line, I'd stay far away from the jacketed soft points. If it comes apart on a skull or heavy bone, you might as well not have fired it.

I'd load 158 or 180 hardcast SWC or flat points, going fast. Certainly with a good roll crimp.

Several factories make this load.

I read one "Net" thread that had a 4" 357 Magnum, 180gr at 1375fps per maker......
getting 40" of penetration.

Their test stated that Cor-Bon and Black Hills were the most accurate with the 180gr lead Swc bullet design.
I did notice that they did not test Buff. Bore ammo, though.

BB has a 357 in a 180gr Lwc with a 4" doing 1375fps
a 9mm 147gr LFN at 1100fps, with a long barrel
even a M642 snub load, 158gr Lwc at 1027fps.... for bear ?

The big .358 lead bullet would be a good pick but it would also
have a lot of recoil, for those practice sessions, if used in a light weight weapon !!

I find that dogs help keep bears away, if you have them......
don't know about cats.

A handgun for Bear Country:
recommend walking/hiking in woods where there are no bears.
I am not a hunter, but do bears give a warning or just charge.
IMHO, no matter what the handgun, one is serious at a handicap going up against a bear with a handgun.

I would take a look at Underwood's extream penetrators... they are barrier blind and I think would pass threw a bear skull NP, but shot placement is everything IMO if you cant get a CNS hit you're just gonna tick the bear off ... out of my 4in and 3in 686 recoil is comparable to REM 158GRN HTP ammo... very manageable with magnas and a tyler t on the 4in and houge bantam on the 3in. Hope this helps

An 1895 sbl would reduce that handicap greatly with some 430gr +P

Just shoot a Sasquatch in the knee ... then you won't have to worry about bears.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

A heavy gun while a pain to carry will do wonders with cutting down recoil. What ever round she chooses she must be able to fire several rounds with accurately no flinch. Practice! Practice! Practice! She is betting her life on this.

Hay now, no shooting Squatches, they are people too!

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Why 43 rounds ???

Also regarding balistics has anybody asked the bears what they prefer???

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Forum consigliere

Check out this article. This is one of the best I’ve seen on heavy bullet loads in the .357 for use on big bears.
The Case For The 357 Magnum – Alaska Gunsite

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Everybody could shoot

How many black bears my Uncle took with Ruger Blackhawk in 357mag ???
I couldn't say ... But it would be alot .. And a few Whitetail thrown in ..
Im not sure what ammo he used , he passed in 1985 from a heart attack , in the woods hunting with his dogs ... What away to go

The first couple of times I hunted in the Scapegoat Wilderness out of Lincoln, MT I carried a Model 29 loaded with Grizzly 300 grain 44 Magnum ammunition. My intention was to only shoot the revolver in self defense if I encountered a Grizzly I could not avoid (I never did). The ammunition was so powerful I really did not want to practice shooting with it. I still have about thirty rounds, which are well past their expiry date, so it is unlikely they will ever be fired. If I ever decide to use them up, it will be one at a time in a Super Blackhawk.

Bill

Unlikely confrontations do happen. A friend of mine was hiking, I think in Montana, turned a corner and came right up close and personal to a bear. He waved his arms and yelled. The bear cuffed him once and sent him flying downhill. Then the bear left the scene and my friend crawled back uphill where his hiking partners found him. Messed up his arm and shoulder but he recovered nicely.

Be prepared...............

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Come and take it!!

I am thinking that some of the heavy loads are a bit too long to fit the cylinder?

I seem to recall having some ammo that was too long.

Maybe the newer cartridges have a proper OAL?

Ruger 44s have a longer cylinder than S&Ws. Rather than reduce the OAL most boutique ammo companies label such loads "Ruger only".

Underwood is well worth a look for the ammunition you are seeking. Sincerely. bruce.

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<><

I’ve used Garrett ammo for .44 and .45-70. They also make .357
It’s a super hard cast loaded hot and they do penetrate!
I believe they are also in Montana or there abouts.
Very similar to what Buffalo Bore makes.

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“Look life in its iron face”

If you missed this article about 63 actual bear encounters involving handguns you might want to read it...

Pistols or Handguns 95% Effective When Used to Defend Against Bear Attacks, 63 Cases

Once, in my Hippie days in the early 1970's, I was chased by a couple of fun loving cowboys in Wyoming near Lander while walking in the woods one fine summer day.
I sprinted down a path a couple of hundred yards and I was looking to keep going for good measure when I surprised a Momma Moose who promptly started chasing me. I turned and ran even faster straight back at the Cowboys. I figured two 170 pounders were better than one 600 pounder defending her future. In that time, the Cowboys were gone, most likely laughing about scaring the **** out of me, not knowing I was double afraid of the Moose. Back at the canyon road where I started, serenity returned when the Moose broke off her chase.

Good Times!

Groo here
Cooper suggested a snub nose 357 mag loaded with armor pearcing
ammo [now a hard cast or solid bullet].
As a bear is very fast [faster than a horse] the chances of stopping a bear BEFORE you are on the ground aree low, your best chance is to put the barrel
against the fur ,head ,ear ,under the chin and pull the trigger..
If you have time [distance] bear spray may help.
Make a clould of spray for the bear [etc] to run through.
If she can take it,,, Heavy hard cast or solid copper magnum
Add a hand fitting grip on her gun , instruction and a hikeing parter
Should be fine.

Hunting bear with a handgun:
Revolver, Min 41mag to 500mag
Semi Auto, 1911 in 10mm
Rifle, 1895 45/50 or a 444 Guide Guns

Bears normally will run away, mother and cubs. Well different story, try making yours bigger and back up slowly. All the time as you're peeing in your pants.

Now running into a brown bear you're done. look behind you all the timer..

RICKY

Ahhh yes! Sounds like fun!

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy

I'm always amazed how few people actually read the tthreads. I am still seeing recommendations for the hottest loads available while the OP made it very clear the shooter is recoil sensitive. Wow.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Groo here
Sorry ,,, Just looking at what the gun was.
The bullet will be the same just 38spec or +p.
At "hair burning " distance the speed of the bullet is of less import
than the shape and construction ...
If you had some 38 AP, hard cast or Lehi defence bullets that would work.
The thing is where you hit..
Eye socket, ear hole, under chin, or in mouth [if open]
You are going for the CNC..
Also If your hikeing buddy is the one hit, run up and stick barrel in ear
as bear is distracted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know the thread is last year, but we read them alright but some things you just can’t cut corners on.
Defending against an attacking bear is going to hurt, one way or another and recoil is my preferred way.

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“Look life in its iron face”

I have said this time and time again, the most powerful ammo is useless unless you can make good hits. That is not cutting corners, it's knowing her limitations. Hitting what you shoot at is important. Then again, the OP has told us an encounter is unlikely so...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

The late Larry Kelly of Mag-Na-Port International used to hunt bear with pistols. I know he's used a .357 Magnum on black bear here in Michigan. I think he moved up to .44 Magnum for grizzles. I met Mr. Kelly back in the early 80's when I applied for a job with is company. Very interesting man! He passed in 2010 in his 70's. If you do a Google search you should find a lot of info and articles regarding bear hunting with pistols.