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12-24-2019, 08:52 AM
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9mm Browning Court = .380 Auto?
Seems the answer is yes. As S&B is a European company the phrase 9mm short, 9mm cort, and 9mm corte are very common. But I do not recall ever seeing 9mm Browning Court. My quick and non-sophisticated ruler measurements indicate the same case width. The attached pics though indicate 9mm BRC on the headstamp. I was a bit surprised, but think I am good to go. Any input appreciated.
For reference, I recently bought a Shield EZ 380 for an awesome price (incl rebate), and bought some ammo at local guns show. Was getting ready to load magazines for a range trip and noticed the box marking and headstamp.
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12-24-2019, 09:22 AM
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One in the same..the only difference you might see is the case rim and the S&B is a little hotter.(in my experience)AKA as 9mm kurz, I have Walther PPK's that are marked as such.
Last edited by CZU; 12-24-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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12-24-2019, 09:26 AM
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Sometimes you’ll find 9mm kurz on the older European stuff as well.
Last edited by diyj98; 12-24-2019 at 08:20 PM.
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12-24-2019, 09:35 AM
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9mm Corto
Ive seen 9mm corto, which is short, I believe in both Spanish and Italian. As for 9mm "court," this could be a typo in which somebody wasn't doing his job.
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12-24-2019, 10:44 AM
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I agree with federali, “Court” was a poor English translation of corto.
Their product code (SB380A) is a good hint!
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12-24-2019, 10:49 AM
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9mm Court is the C.I.P designation for what we call .380 ACP. C.I.P is like SAMMI, but for everybody outside the United States.
As usual...the Americans go their own way.
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12-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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And in pistol ammo C.I.P standards are a little higher pressure than S.A.M.M.I, generally, but not in all cases.
Last edited by bulletslap; 12-24-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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12-24-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Ive seen 9mm corto, which is short, I believe in both Spanish and Italian. As for 9mm "court," this could be a typo in which somebody wasn't doing his job.
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It is not a typo
The Official designation for the cartridge by CIP actually is "9 mm Browning Court "
robrossk,
The 380 ACP cartridge is known by many names around the world. I will probably miss one or two but here goes:
380 ACP
380 Auto
9×17
9mm Browning
9mm Short
9mm Kurz
9mm Corto
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12-24-2019, 12:08 PM
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Yep, "9mm Short" is merely the European nomenclature for the .380 ACP cartridge. A word of warning though, European .380 ACP tends to be loaded hotter than North American ammo, so don't be surprised if it has more recoil than your average domestically produced ammo.
So yeah, if you've ever wondered why European .380 Pistols like the Walther PPK and Beretta Cheetah are built like tanks or why European police carried .380 Pistols well into the 1980s, that's why.
Also, funny bit of trivia, contrary to what the European nomenclature may suggest, the .380 ACP cartridge isn't a shortened 9mm Luger, but rather a scaled down .45 ACP.
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12-24-2019, 03:04 PM
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So would S&W consider this to be +P ammo? The EZ owner does manual suggests to not use +P ammo as it may cause excessive wear
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12-24-2019, 03:19 PM
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An older online test of this round showed a velocity of 872 fps out of a subcompact gun, so I would suspect pressures are within SAAMI standards.
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12-24-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by federali
Ive seen 9mm corto, which is short, I believe in both Spanish and Italian. As for 9mm "court," this could be a typo in which somebody wasn't doing his job.
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Not a typo. Court is short in French. And C.I.P.(Commision Internacionale Permanente) documentation is in French.
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12-24-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robrossk
So would S&W consider this to be +P ammo? The EZ owner does manual suggests to not use +P ammo as it may cause excessive wear
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Only if the particular manufacturer loaded to the very extreme top of CIP specifications
A pressure standard (SAAMI or CIP) is a number that is not to be exceeded, it is not a number that must be reached
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Last edited by colt_saa; 12-24-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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12-24-2019, 07:41 PM
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It is correct what Kuruzu says, court means short in French, in the ammunition box they write 9 mm Browning court to differentiate it from the 9 mm Browning Long, which is the caliber of the Browning pistol model 1903.
The short 9mm Browning is the European version of the .380 ACP.
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12-24-2019, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan
Also, funny bit of trivia, contrary to what the European nomenclature may suggest, the .380 ACP cartridge isn't a shortened 9mm Luger, but rather a scaled down .45 ACP.
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Indeed, since the 9x19 has a tapered case and the .380 ACP does not. Hard to claim they are related.
The .380 ACP and the .45 ACP were designed by the same you-know-who genius and the dimensions of the .45 ACP scaled down are pretty dang close.
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12-24-2019, 10:02 PM
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Look how long it took for a member to tell that "Court" is French...
Thanks to Kurusu and Leonardo. They solved the mystery.
BTW, Kurusu, what is Portuguese for Short? Same as in Spanish?
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12-24-2019, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenwolde
Indeed, since the 9x19 has a tapered case and the .380 ACP does not. Hard to claim they are related.
The .380 ACP and the .45 ACP were designed by the same you-know-who genius and the dimensions of the .45 ACP scaled down are pretty dang close.
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Yep, but I've seen more than a few folks make comments which at least imply that they're related while alluding to the European nomenclature. Comments like; ".380 ACP, aka '9mm Short' in Europe, is (as the name would suggest) less powerful than 9mm Luger." are made from time to time in threads, and IIRC, I've seen at least a couple poorly-written articles make similar statements as well.
Meanwhile, anyone who can use Google or Wikipedia knows that 9mm Luger is a descendant of the 7.65x21 Parabellum cartridge and .380 ACP was based on the .45 ACP.
On a bit of a side note, I find it somewhat amusing that for all the comments Europeans make about Americans being stubborn because we haven't adopted the Metric System, at least we're not the ones nonsensically renaming European cartridges with metric designations to confusing/misleading names based on United States Customary Units.
Seriously, imagine if we insisted on calling 9mm Luger, .357 Luger Automatic Pistol or something.
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12-25-2019, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star
Look how long it took for a member to tell that "Court" is French...
Thanks to Kurusu and Leonardo. They solved the mystery.
BTW, Kurusu, what is Portuguese for Short? Same as in Spanish?
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In Portuguese it's "curto".
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12-25-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu
In Portuguese it's "curto".
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In universal sign language, it's holding the thumb & forefinger about 1/2" apart.
MERRY CHRISTMAS YA'LL !
My 1971 PPK/S is marked 9mm kurtz FWIW
Rob
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12-25-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetdog1911
In universal sign language, it's holding the thumb & forefinger about 1/2" apart.
MERRY CHRISTMAS YA'LL !
My 1971 PPK/S is marked 9mm kurtz FWIW
Rob
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There is a story about that sign in Portugal.
Anglos laughed at Portuguese for being short. And Portuguese showed them this one sign in reply.
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12-25-2019, 12:38 PM
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The fact that the European ammo is loaded hotter addresses some of the oddities one sees with .380 pistol function. My (limited) experience indicates that the pistol functions better with the hotter ammo.
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12-25-2019, 01:26 PM
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A few years back I lucked into some Spanish 9mm Corto flat tipped ammo, it feed through my P3AT like **** through a goose and was a robust round. I wish I could find some more of it as I considered it an ideal round for my Kel-Tec Gat.
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12-25-2019, 01:31 PM
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I have to check to be sure but I think my CZ83 is marked 9mm Browning
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12-26-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetdog1911
In universal sign language, it's holding the thumb & forefinger about 1/2" apart.
MERRY CHRISTMAS YA'LL !
My 1971 PPK/S is marked 9mm kurtz FWIW
Rob
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Actually, it's "kurz" German for short.
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10-08-2020, 09:22 AM
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Can you tell me if you've used the 380 auto/9 mm browning court in your 380 EZ and if it worked ok? I know that there was discussion about it running hot and I no nothing about ammo so I'm wondering if ok for by new 380 Shield EZ.
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10-08-2020, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponderinglifeinmichgan
Can you tell me if you've used the 380 auto/9 mm browning court in your 380 EZ and if it worked ok? I know that there was discussion about it running hot and I no nothing about ammo so I'm wondering if ok for by new 380 Shield EZ.
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Your S&W is safe with commercially available ammunition labeled with any of the above mentioned designations.
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10-08-2020, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponderinglifeinmichgan
Can you tell me if you've used the 380 auto/9 mm browning court in your 380 EZ and if it worked ok? I know that there was discussion about it running hot and I no nothing about ammo so I'm wondering if ok for by new 380 Shield EZ.
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We fired (me and mrs robrossk) 5-6 different kinds of ammo not long after purchase. Had one stovepipe and I thought uh-oh. Changed and tightened up grip a bit (has a grip safety) and not a single problem after that. Since then probably another 200-300 rounds down range and no problems. Mrs robrossk really likes the 380EZ Shield.
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