Just received three new boxes of subject WW 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWCHP load from Brownells, and there are no crimps on any of the rounds. Picture is attached. Numbers on the package flap read as follows (from top to bottom):

10
212815A
2019-03
1593

Brownells cannot accept ammo returns.

Still awaiting Winchester’s response.

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We saw it with the Federal version we'd used forever. Finally switched to the Speer.



I don't remember if that's my pic, it was in my files. Either way, it's exactly what we were experiencing.

Interesting that there's no crimp groove in the bullet. The groove is from them trying to roll crimp a bullet without a groove.

I wonder how Remington's version of this load is these days?

Yet another good reason to roll your own.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

Unless Winchester makes good, I will no longer purchase any of their products. I’ve been purchasing this ammo for 30 years, and never any problems before.

Yes, I do reload, but will not use reloads for home/personal protection (there are many threads on this, and please everyone, let’s not digress to reload vs factory for protection)

My latest batch of Federal 38G came crimped (more like a modified taper roll crimp...I guess Federal got enough complaints that they figured out what to do...and the resultant ammo is top rate)

Last two boxes of Remington FBI loads I received were also nicely roll crimped.

Winchester...YOU’RE FIRED! Federal and Remington hired!!!

How bad was bullet-pull, from the ones you fired, before adding
your own crimp?

I once had a revolver bind up with a bullet jump condition (PPU). Never again will I put uncrimped rounds in my J frame Airweight.

I'd think they would want to know the lot number on the box pretty quick to do some recall on them … I'd think .. shrug

Just goes to show you that people in companies today, don't give a hoot any more about doing a good job and that they are just there to get a pay check.

If I was Winchester there would be layoff checks being made out to a manager and a worker, to start with !!

Yes, I sent them a message on their website with the lot information. Have not heard back from them. I also phoned them and left message...no reply yet.

I just pulled out my stash of Remington .38 Special +P 158 gr. LHP, Product R38S12, and the nickeled cases are all nicely roll-crimped. This stuff is like a laser out of my 2-inch Model 19-4.

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Five screws and 3-1/2 inches.

Hopefully, Winchester will get back to me, and if they do, I’ll post the results.

It didn’t seem too long ago that this ammo type had sealed primers, firm roll crimps and clean cases. I never had an issue with WW 9mm and 45 ACP ammo...guess they “back burnered” revolver stuff.

per post #3;

Hay, it is soft lead.

You don't need no stinking cannelure..............

I’ve had trouble with Winchester ammo in the past. Had a 45 colt once that wouldn’t drop in. Took it apart. Had another slug in it backwards. Not the only problems I’ve had with them. Not real unusual to find bad ammo but I noticed Winchester was more common.

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No gold. Only lead. Bobby

Another slug in the case, yikes! That’s crazy! Thanks for sharing.

I’m sticking with Remington and Federal (and Buffalo Bore and Underwood, funds permitting) FBI loadings.

If the price is a bargain it sure wouldn't take much to put a taper crimp on an otherwise excellent handgun cartridge. Heck, if they would sell me 1,000 rounds of that uncrimped lot at a real bargain, I would have them crimped in two relaxed evenings at the reloading bench. ...... Brownell's..You have my email address. :-)

Big Cholla, I may have to run them through my Lee FCD. I found that taper crimps do not secure 158 gr +P SWC loadings with comparable reloads in j frames without some bullet creep.

If the bullets in the cylinder are staying put when firing, what is the problem?
Shoot them...............

Randy

That is what I’m afraid in the Airweight, why risk it? Why settle for something wrong? I guess I’ve become an old crank and have too much time on my hands.

Your new car has a hood that pops up once it a while. It doesn't bother anything because of the safety catch. All you have to do is close it when it pops up by itself.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

These four are all 158-Gr. LSWCHP .38 Spl. Left to right:

Buffalo Bore BBAC-20A/20
Winchester X38SPD
Federal 38G
Remington R38S12

Are you all saying Remington is the only one that is
crimped, because it's the only one with the visible
crimp line?

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In Omnia Paratus

When I blow it up that looks like a crimp groove on the left bullet but no crimp on either brass. I think the lack of a crimp is why it pulled. That must be a 357 but it looks like a 38. I don't see a 38 pulling unless the case wasn't sized making the bullet not tight enough. This bullet looks like you could push it down with your thumb. Not a slight budge anywhere.

Are they using a taper crimp perhaps?

Load up 6 , shoot 5 and measure #6 ...
you can't convict without evidence .
What if the bullet doesn't move...you would look silly making such a fuss for nothing .
If #6 jumps crimp...Winchester has the hard evidence it can't refute.

I only say this because I have some 38/357 cast lead bullets that I taper crimp in 357 magnum loads ... they look uncrimped but they stand up to the recoil and don't jump crimp .
The proof is in the shooting .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Good point. It's hard to believe they'd put them out without some type of crimp.

That is the case cannelure which you see on the Remington case. I’m referring to the case mouth crimp into the bullet.

Here is pic of a typical crimped Winchester’s 38 Spl +P 158 gr SWCHP load...notice the roll crimp.

I can’t for the life of me discern any crimp, taper or otherwise, on the latest rounds.

Winchester still has not gotten back to me...guess that is an answer onto itself.

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We had the issue with Federal 38G. At some point they started locking up the ultra lightweight revolvers consistently. Airweights, occasionally IIRC.

It hadn't been an issue previously. Something seemed to have changed at the manufacturer. (Crimp!) But after that point, every time you went to the range you'd see a growing line of rounds that look like the picture arranged on the window sills.

Ultimately, all lightweight revolvers were temporarily disapproved for carry until the new ammo was purchased, received, and issued.

After that, all good!

I would send the car in for a warranty repair

Thanks for sharing!

Ultimately, we as customers are doing the ammo manufacturers a great service. If we do not point out their oversights, they’ll never root cause and fix the problems. I’m sure Winchester wants to make things “right” for its customers.

If Winchester had roll crimped these rounds as most higher pressure revolver rounds require, I would be purchasing more. Until then, my humble business is going elsewhere.

Also my experience, as I've posted before. The near-case (19 boxes) of .38 ammo had 14 boxes of Federal LHP. Bullet would pull in aluminum frame revolvers. I restricted this load to steel frame guns, in which I had no problem. I would be leery, though, of carrying this Fed load for business, much as I adore the .38 LHP concept and carry it exclusively in .38s.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Update: I have since returned the ammunition to Winchester based on their authorization and pickup. Winchester advised today that they’ve sent me a refund in the mail. Nothing else was conveyed in their message, except that I’m receiving a refund check.

I experienced similar with a box of Federal 9mm +P HST. All 50 factory rounds had obviously missed the taper crimp station in production, with all 50 cases still slightly flared.

Stuff happens. Routinely see reports of someone having some issue with this or that ammo, and by gosh they are never using it again, and are switching to XXXX brand ammo. OK, but check around and you'll find that someone else has had an issue with XXXX brand ammo and is switching to something else....

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

Have you ever been in a loading plant? Heck, rounds spout out of those machines like water from a hose. One adjustment goes a bit out of whack, and things like this are the result. It happens -- and it's a wonder it doesn't happen more. My bet -- Winchester will make it good.

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Pisgah

Hats off to Winchester, I received check for full reimbursement for rounds which I received without proper roll crimp.