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Old 01-13-2020, 05:20 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Default BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP

Just received three new boxes of subject WW 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWCHP load from Brownells, and there are no crimps on any of the rounds. Picture is attached. Numbers on the package flap read as follows (from top to bottom):

10
212815A
2019-03
1593

Brownells cannot accept ammo returns.

Still awaiting Winchester’s response.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:35 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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We saw it with the Federal version we'd used forever. Finally switched to the Speer.



I don't remember if that's my pic, it was in my files. Either way, it's exactly what we were experiencing.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:39 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transit View Post
We saw it with the Federal version we'd used forever. Finally switched to the Speer.



I don't remember if that's my pic, it was in my files. Either way, it's exactly what we were experiencing.

Interesting that there's no crimp groove in the bullet. The groove is from them trying to roll crimp a bullet without a groove.

I wonder how Remington's version of this load is these days?
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:53 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Yet another good reason to roll your own.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:56 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Unless Winchester makes good, I will no longer purchase any of their products. I’ve been purchasing this ammo for 30 years, and never any problems before.

Yes, I do reload, but will not use reloads for home/personal protection (there are many threads on this, and please everyone, let’s not digress to reload vs factory for protection)

Last edited by 38SPL HV; 01-13-2020 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:06 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderboss View Post
Interesting that there's no crimp groove in the bullet. The groove is from them trying to roll crimp a bullet without a groove.

I wonder how Remington's version of this load is these days?
My latest batch of Federal 38G came crimped (more like a modified taper roll crimp...I guess Federal got enough complaints that they figured out what to do...and the resultant ammo is top rate)

Last two boxes of Remington FBI loads I received were also nicely roll crimped.

Winchester...YOUíRE FIRED! Federal and Remington hired!!!
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:46 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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How bad was bullet-pull, from the ones you fired, before adding
your own crimp?
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:11 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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I once had a revolver bind up with a bullet jump condition (PPU). Never again will I put uncrimped rounds in my J frame Airweight.

Last edited by 38SPL HV; 01-13-2020 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:03 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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I'd think they would want to know the lot number on the box pretty quick to do some recall on them … I'd think .. shrug
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:09 PM
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Just goes to show you that people in companies today, don't give a hoot any more about doing a good job and that they are just there to get a pay check.

If I was Winchester there would be layoff checks being made out to a manager and a worker, to start with !!
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:10 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Yes, I sent them a message on their website with the lot information. Have not heard back from them. I also phoned them and left message...no reply yet.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:11 PM
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I just pulled out my stash of Remington .38 Special +P 158 gr. LHP, Product R38S12, and the nickeled cases are all nicely roll-crimped. This stuff is like a laser out of my 2-inch Model 19-4.

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Old 01-13-2020, 09:17 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
Just goes to show you that people in companies today, don't give a hoot any more about doing a good job and that they are just there to get a pay check.

If I was Winchester there would be layoff checks being made out to a manager and a worker, to start with !!
Hopefully, Winchester will get back to me, and if they do, Iíll post the results.

It didnít seem too long ago that this ammo type had sealed primers, firm roll crimps and clean cases. I never had an issue with WW 9mm and 45 ACP ammo...guess they ďback burneredĒ revolver stuff.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:18 PM
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per post #3;

Hay, it is soft lead.

You don't need no stinking cannelure..............
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:32 PM
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I’ve had trouble with Winchester ammo in the past. Had a 45 colt once that wouldn’t drop in. Took it apart. Had another slug in it backwards. Not the only problems I’ve had with them. Not real unusual to find bad ammo but I noticed Winchester was more common.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:21 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Another slug in the case, yikes! That’s crazy! Thanks for sharing.

I’m sticking with Remington and Federal (and Buffalo Bore and Underwood, funds permitting) FBI loadings.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:30 PM
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If the price is a bargain it sure wouldn't take much to put a taper crimp on an otherwise excellent handgun cartridge. Heck, if they would sell me 1,000 rounds of that uncrimped lot at a real bargain, I would have them crimped in two relaxed evenings at the reloading bench. ...... Brownell's..You have my email address. :-)
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:03 AM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP BEWARE Winchester 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC, NO CRIMP  
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Big Cholla, I may have to run them through my Lee FCD. I found that taper crimps do not secure 158 gr +P SWC loadings with comparable reloads in j frames without some bullet creep.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:04 AM
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If the bullets in the cylinder are staying put when firing, what is the problem?
Shoot them...............

Randy
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:37 AM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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That is what I’m afraid in the Airweight, why risk it? Why settle for something wrong? I guess I’ve become an old crank and have too much time on my hands.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV View Post
That is what Iím afraid in the Airweight, why risk it? Why settle for something wrong? I guess Iíve become an old crank and have too much time on my hands.
Your new car has a hood that pops up once it a while. It doesn't bother anything because of the safety catch. All you have to do is close it when it pops up by itself.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:18 AM
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These four are all 158-Gr. LSWCHP .38 Spl. Left to right:

Buffalo Bore BBAC-20A/20
Winchester X38SPD
Federal 38G
Remington R38S12

Are you all saying Remington is the only one that is
crimped, because it's the only one with the visible
crimp line?
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transit View Post
We saw it with the Federal version we'd used forever. Finally switched to the Speer.



I don't remember if that's my pic, it was in my files. Either way, it's exactly what we were experiencing.
When I blow it up that looks like a crimp groove on the right bullet but no crimp on either brass. I think the lack of a crimp is why it pulled. That must be a 357 but it looks like a 38. I don't see a 38 pulling unless the case wasn't sized making the bullet not tight enough. This bullet looks like you could push it down with your thumb. Not a slight budge anywhere.

Last edited by 4barrel; 01-14-2020 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:17 AM
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Are they using a taper crimp perhaps?
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:11 AM
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Load up 6 , shoot 5 and measure #6 ...
you can't convict without evidence .
What if the bullet doesn't move...you would look silly making such a fuss for nothing .
If #6 jumps crimp...Winchester has the hard evidence it can't refute.

I only say this because I have some 38/357 cast lead bullets that I taper crimp in 357 magnum loads ... they look uncrimped but they stand up to the recoil and don't jump crimp .
The proof is in the shooting .
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmj8591 View Post
Are they using a taper crimp perhaps?
Good point. It's hard to believe they'd put them out without some type of crimp.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:42 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil View Post
These four are all 158-Gr. LSWCHP .38 Spl. Left to right:

Buffalo Bore BBAC-20A/20
Winchester X38SPD
Federal 38G
Remington R38S12

Are you all saying Remington is the only one that is
crimped, because it's the only one with the visible
crimp line?
That is the case cannelure which you see on the Remington case. Iím referring to the case mouth crimp into the bullet.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:49 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Load up 6 , shoot 5 and measure #6 ...
you can't convict without evidence .
What if the bullet doesn't move...you would look silly making such a fuss for nothing .
If #6 jumps crimp...Winchester has the hard evidence it can't refute.

I only say this because I have some 38/357 cast lead bullets that I taper crimp in 357 magnum loads ... they look uncrimped but they stand up to the recoil and don't jump crimp .
The proof is in the shooting .
Gary

Here is pic of a typical crimped Winchesterís 38 Spl +P 158 gr SWCHP load...notice the roll crimp.

I canít for the life of me discern any crimp, taper or otherwise, on the latest rounds.

Winchester still has not gotten back to me...guess that is an answer onto itself.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4barrel View Post
When I blow it up that looks like a crimp groove on the right bullet but no crimp on either brass. I think the lack of a crimp is why it pulled. That must be a 357 but it looks like a 38. I don't see a 38 pulling unless the case wasn't sized making the bullet not tight enough. This bullet looks like you could push it down with your thumb. Not a slight budge anywhere.
We had the issue with Federal 38G. At some point they started locking up the ultra lightweight revolvers consistently. Airweights, occasionally IIRC.

It hadn't been an issue previously. Something seemed to have changed at the manufacturer. (Crimp!) But after that point, every time you went to the range you'd see a growing line of rounds that look like the picture arranged on the window sills.

Ultimately, all lightweight revolvers were temporarily disapproved for carry until the new ammo was purchased, received, and issued.

After that, all good!
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:18 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
Your new car has a hood that pops up once it a while. It doesn't bother anything because of the safety catch. All you have to do is close it when it pops up by itself.
I would send the car in for a warranty repair
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:26 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transit View Post
We had the issue with Federal 38G. At some point they started locking up the ultra lightweight revolvers consistently. Airweights, occasionally IIRC.

It hadn't been an issue previously. Something seemed to have changed at the manufacturer. (Crimp!) But after that point, every time you went to the range you'd see a growing line of rounds that look like the picture arranged on the window sills.

Ultimately, all lightweight revolvers were temporarily disapproved for carry until the new ammo was purchased, received, and issued.

After that, all good!
Thanks for sharing!

Ultimately, we as customers are doing the ammo manufacturers a great service. If we do not point out their oversights, theyíll never root cause and fix the problems. Iím sure Winchester wants to make things ďrightĒ for its customers.

If Winchester had roll crimped these rounds as most higher pressure revolver rounds require, I would be purchasing more. Until then, my humble business is going elsewhere.
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