Service Grade Ammo?

[wood714]

I found this on SOS for 12.21 a box, I bought 20. I figure it would be good to kill paper.

FMJ 115gr.

Anyone tried it?

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by wood714

I found this on SOS for 12.21 a box, I bought 20. I figure it would be good to kill paper.

FMJ 115gr.

Anyone tried it?

Well it does say its Winchester made. Box is not familiar but as its FMJ is good target ammo!

[Mike, SC Hunter]

STEEL case?

[wood714]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

STEEL case?

Brass case.

[wood714]

Few years ago I bought a bunch of weird Federal HST 40 ammo.

Instead of the fancy box, and nickel plated case, it came in a plain white box, and brass cased. Only thing I could figure out was that it was a military contract?

[ContinentalOp]

Not a bad price for range ammo, especially now. Haven't tried it myself.

As for the white box HST, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was an overrun from a LE agency contract. I could be wrong, though.

[Dieseltech56]

I bought some winchester service grade 45 acp. Very reasonably priced, no complaints

[OKFC05]

Familiar brown box as on GI issue ammo. Missing the GSA number, so apparently contract excess, not bought by Government. In my experience, the 9mm is good.

[Echo40]

I bought some 12 Gauge like this a couple years ago, the only differences were that the box was marked Olin instead of Winchester, the hulls were OD Green, and the brass was blackened.

As near as I can figure, it's just bargain-priced ammo marketed in such a way to suggest that it's MilSpec, only it obviously isn't because the US Army's 12 Gauge is just ordinary-looking red-hulled stuff and their 9mm is overpressure stuff marked "9mm NATO".

Originally Posted by wood714

Few years ago I bought a bunch of weird Federal HST 40 ammo.

Instead of the fancy box, and nickel plated case, it came in a plain white box, and brass cased. Only thing I could figure out was that it was a military contract?

Close. It's Law Enforcement contract ammo that was sent back to Federal in exchange for 9mm Luger. There was a lot of this stuff on the market for awhile after the FBI adopted 9mm and a number of PDs followed suit.

[max]

I shot some and it worked just fine. I have some left and it is a flat point, not a RN.

[steveno]

the 45 acp hardball service grade ammo is pretty good stuff. I haven't chronographed it but from felt recoil it seems a little hotter than other loads I have shot

[alwslate]

I have seen this 9mm along with the same in .45 acp in the ammo
section of my big box, Meijer, grocery store. I'd bet it's just repackaged
Winchester White box ammo to appeal to a certain segment of the market.

[JayFramer]

REAL 9mm NATO is going to be 124 grain. That being said, Winchester “service grade” .45 ACP 230 grain ball is a superb load and the gold standard among bulk .45 ACP ball loads.

[Rule3]

Win Service grade is just overrun military ammo
Lots of places sell it, Brownells just had a bunch. It's good ammo, goes bang nothing special about it.


https://ammosquared.com/ammo-quality-grades/


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[fmflorida]

A local shop had CASES of that brown box Winchester 9mm ammo at Christmas last year.

500 rounds of 9mm for $80+ tax. I bought 4 cases of it.

Stuff ran great, never had any issues. I had never seen it before but I figured for that price......may as well try it.

[swsig]

I've shot thousands of rounds of Winchester Service Grade .45 acp. It's my go-to range ammo because it's clean, accurate, affordable, and it works every time.

[Oldsalt66]

Originally Posted by wood714

Few years ago I bought a bunch of weird Federal HST 40 ammo.

Instead of the fancy box, and nickel plated case, it came in a plain white box, and brass cased. Only thing I could figure out was that it was a military contract?

I bought a case of that as well.

IIRC it was excess from a state contract, but which state it was I can’t remember.

Excellent ammo though.

[Nevada Ed]

Just because a box of ammo is wrapped in a brown bag or newspaper, instead of having all different fancy colors and sayings all over the box,
does not mean that it is not good ammo.

Overun, "GI"/ "LE" ammo is a good thing for the common folk.
It is usually made by a major ammo maker that gives the lowest bid or one that is accepted by the persons needing a bulk ammo sale.

All "Spec ammo" that is well inside the pressure limits for weapons in good shape.

I will buy it if I think the price is right.
Have fun and enjoy.

[murphydog]

“Service Grade” is just a trademark, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is made on the same production line as mil-spec ammunition. Good marketing on Winchester’s part.

[max]

I had a thought last night. By coming out now, it can be mated with the DCM 1911's that are finding new owners.

[old tanker]

Remember when the CMP sold boxes like this for 8 bucks?

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by murphydog

“Service Grade” is just a trademark, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is made on the same production line as mil-spec ammunition. Good marketing on Winchester’s part.

Makes folks think they are getting the real good stuff/ Like Military Grade Aluminum in a Truck

[wood714]

Originally Posted by murphydog

“Service Grade” is just a trademark, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is made on the same production line as mil-spec ammunition. Good marketing on Winchester’s part.

I figured it was bottom of the barrel ammo. That's why I asked about it.

Only gun I had that was 9mm was my 6906, so I was kinda shy on the amount of 9mm ammo I had.

When I bought my P365 I wanted to use it as my EDC, so I was looking for deals on 9mm.

I shot 100 rounds of it Sunday in the Sig and it worked great.

Got an email from Academy Sports last night. They have Browning 9mm $28.99 for a box of 150. Just got back from picking up 4 boxes of that.

I think Browning is also made by Winchester?

[mike from st pete]

Just wait until the EveryTown, Demanding Moms see that "military grade ammunition"

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by wood714

I figured it was bottom of the barrel ammo. That's why I asked about it.

Only gun I had that was 9mm was my 6906, so I was kinda shy on the amount of 9mm ammo I had.

When I bought my P365 I wanted to use it as my EDC, so I was looking for deals on 9mm.

I shot 100 rounds of it Sunday in the Sig and it worked great.

Got an email from Academy Sports last night. They have Browning 9mm $28.99 for a box of 150. Just got back from picking up 4 boxes of that.

I think Browning is also made by Winchester?

From the article I linked above. (FWIW) I do not agree with the Fiochi , MagTech, IMI I'll take that ammo any-day of the week.

Service Grade Ammunition:
Blazer Brass
PMC Bronze
Magtech
Federal American Eagle
Fiocchi
Perfecta
PPU / Prvi Partizan
IMI
ZQI
Speer Lawman
Winchester USA
Winchester Service Grade
Armscor
Sellier & Bellot
Aguila
Remington UMC

[IAhunter]

Originally Posted by wood714

Few years ago I bought a bunch of weird Federal HST 40 ammo.

Instead of the fancy box, and nickel plated case, it came in a plain white box, and brass cased. Only thing I could figure out was that it was a military contract?

It was a DHS/CBP ammo contract. I carried that load that came in the same boxes on duty for years.

Winchester Service Grade .40 S&W functions fine in my pistols, but it is not very accurate.

[max]

I am not sure that it is "overrun military ammo" for one reason. The 9mm is flat point! I am not aware of any military ammo that is not round nose. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Rule3

Win Service grade is just overrun military ammo
Lots of places sell it, Brownells just had a bunch. It's good ammo, goes bang nothing special about it.


Ammo Quality Grades - AMMO2


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[stansdds]

Originally Posted by max

I am not sure that it is "overrun military ammo" for one reason. The 9mm is flat point! I am not aware of any military ammo that is not round nose. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected.

The new U.S. Army 9x19 load does feature a 115 grain flat point FMJ bullet, it is designated M1152 Ball. They also have a 147 grain JHP, the M1153 Special Purpose.

American Rifleman | M1152 & M1153: The Army’s New 9 mm Luger Loads

[DWalt]

The older U.S. military ammunition was the M882 9mm ball round with a 124 grain FMJ bullet, which was made only by Winchester-Olin in East Alton IL. The new M1152 and M1153 9mm military rounds are also made only by Winchester, but in their newer Mississippi plant. "Service Grade" is just a trade name for civilian ammo to make it sound sort of military-ish.

[max]

I stand corrected. I am glad the military is using a flat point. Now, I remember reading the article.

Originally Posted by stansdds

The new U.S. Army 9x19 load does feature a 115 grain flat point FMJ bullet, it is designated M1152 Ball. They also have a 147 grain JHP, the M1153 Special Purpose.

American Rifleman | M1152 & M1153: The Army’s New 9 mm Luger Loads

[BE Mike]

Actually, I don't care if the ammo is "mil-spec" or not. If it functions ok, it is probably accurate enough for 95% of pistol shooters. It probably wouldn't be good enough for precision pistol competitors. As a reloader, I would be interested in seeing the case head, if it isn't too much trouble. It seems like lately some Winchester brass is crimped and others have tight primer pockets. I have to admit that my homemade 9mm at $5.68 for a box of 50 is looking better and better all the time!

[stansdds]

Supposedly, the Winchester Service Grade ammo line is loaded to military ballistic specifications, whereas their white box USA brand is civilian spec. If that holds true, I would expect the Service Grade ammo to run about 50 fps faster than the USA brand, at least in 9mm and 45 ACP.

[Nevada Ed]

I have a question on post #28, Milt. new ammo.

Standard 9mm runs at 35,000psi.
+P 9mm runs at 38,500 psi.

The new 9mm M1153 115gr and the M1153 147gr are listed at 39,700 PSI.

That is a +P+ pressure.

Did the American Rifleman or the Winchester company, print an error or..............
is this ammo, really have this much pressure.

The fps seems normal for the bullet weight.
Just that the pressures seem really high, for this loading.

[BE Mike]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

I have a question on post #28, Milt. new ammo.

Standard 9mm runs at 35,000psi.
+P 9mm runs at 38,500 psi.

The new 9mm M1153 115gr and the M1153 147gr are listed at 39,700 PSI.

That is a +P+ pressure.

Did the American Rifleman or the Winchester company, print an error or..............
is this ammo, really have this much pressure.

The fps seems normal for the bullet weight.
Just that the pressures seem really high, for this loading.

I don't see any 9mm loads in the Lyman #50 Reloading Manual that shows any pressures even approaching the 35,000 psi range with a 115 gr. jacketed bullet, even at the highest velocities. Surely the 39,000+ psi is a mistake. The pressures for the 147 gr. jacketed bullets at the 960+ velocities they list in the article are even lower in the Lyman Manual, like around 30,000 psi.

[gen3guy]

What does "Service Grade" actually mean? Besides, if you look on those brown boxes, it looks like Winchester actually trademarked the term. I guess it means Winchester range ammo.

[swsig]

Originally Posted by stansdds

Supposedly, the Winchester Service Grade ammo line is loaded to military ballistic specifications, whereas their white box USA brand is civilian spec. If that holds true, I would expect the Service Grade ammo to run about 50 fps faster than the USA brand, at least in 9mm and 45 ACP.

Win Service Grade .45 acp 230g is rated at 865 fps. Win White Box .45 acp 230g is rated at 835 fps.

[zzclancy]

I use the Winchester Military Service Grade Ammunition 45 acp 230 GRAIN FMJ almost exclusively.

Winchester Military Service Grade Ammo 45 ACP 230 Grain Full Metal

[triaxle]

I have a few cases of that Win brown box mine are the earlier 115 flat tip and are hotter than the stuff in your photo . also we now issue 9 in 115 gr flat tip and its hotter than hell . Win calls it 1182 I think its the new standard and it is hot.

[BE Mike]

Originally Posted by gen3guy

What does "Service Grade" actually mean? Besides, if you look on those brown boxes, it looks like Winchester actually trademarked the term. I guess it means Winchester range ammo.

A marketing term...We have a winner!

[AlHunt]

Originally Posted by old tanker

Remember when the CMP sold boxes like this for 8 bucks?

I have a few boxes like that somewhere that I paid 8 bucks each for just a few years back. Sadly they were empty.

[Rock185]

Marketing. Gun guys tend to like guns and ammo with some type of military association, even if it's just a brown military looking box. I suspect the ammo in question is equivalent to the Winchester white box range/plinking/target ammo.

The "Active Duty"/M1152 mentioned is a different thing. The claimed 115 @ 1320 FPS seemed unlikely to me, so I bought and chronographed some M1152 in several different barrel lengths. I'll list some of the results in case anyone is interested.
3.5" Barrel=1266 FPS
4" " =1258 FPS
4.7" " =1308 FPS
5" " =1319 FPS, Another 5" Barrel=1353 FPS
5.9" " =1377 FPS
16" " =1448 FPS

[max]

According to Midway's website, the 9mm runs at 1350. I went to my current supplier and asked that I be notified if they get any more service grade in to contact me. I have 3 boxes left, but would buy a case if the price was right.

Originally Posted by stansdds

Supposedly, the Winchester Service Grade ammo line is loaded to military ballistic specifications, whereas their white box USA brand is civilian spec. If that holds true, I would expect the Service Grade ammo to run about 50 fps faster than the USA brand, at least in 9mm and 45 ACP.

[triaxle]

The new win 115 gr flat tip 1182 is hot stuff . I like it and will get more when I see any . I think it is almost a plus P plus . its called 1182

[Nevada Ed]

Originally Posted by max

According to Midway's website, the 9mm runs at 1350. I went to my current supplier and asked that I be notified if they get any more service grade in to contact me. I have 3 boxes left, but would buy a case if the price was right.

I have no problem getting a 115gr FMJ up to 1350fps in a 5" 9mm with Unique powder.

However this load is nowhere near the stated 39,500 plus PSI pressures, that is stated.

It would be nice if a load was pulled apart and the amount of powder weighed......... just to get an idea of what is going on.

[DWalt]

AA #5 is one of the better propellants for making up high velocity 115 and 124 grain 9x19 loads due to its high bulk density. Works great in .38 Super also.

[wood714]

Originally Posted by Rock185

Marketing. Gun guys tend to like guns and ammo with some type of military association, even if it's just a brown military looking box. I suspect the ammo in question is equivalent to the Winchester white box range/plinking/target ammo.

Wow...I even have several boxes of Remington brown box ammo that actually says Military / Law Enforcement Division Training Ammunition! Shot 200 rounds of it today while visiting my folks.

I've acquired enough of the brown box service grade to fill a 50 cal. ammo can.

I'd love to find a military wannabe to trade all my service grade ammo round for round for any of the 3 below, be more than happy with some HST too!

[BE Mike]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

I have no problem getting a 115gr FMJ up to 1350fps in a 5" 9mm with Unique powder.

However this load is nowhere near the stated 39,500 plus PSI pressures, that is stated.

It would be nice if a load was pulled apart and the amount of powder weighed......... just to get an idea of what is going on.

SAAMI lists the maximum pressure for 9mm +P at 38,500 p.s.i. That being said, there are some competitive shooters who are using 9mm to make "major" who routinely shoot ammo that exceeds this pressure level, so now I'm rethinking the NRA article.

[Nevada Ed]

9mm to make "major"......

A 115gr HAP with a power factor of 165 from 1448-1489fps can be made with

Auto Comp, Silhouette, HS-6, #7, 3N37, 3N38 and N350 powders.

This "Brown Box" ammo does not state "Major" on the box but it does list a "Major" pressure on the information, that I read.

I just wanted to put that info out there, just in case the pressures were correct, with this 115gr JHP ammo.