What's the safest load of .38 special ammo to use with Victory revolvers and other vintage .38 special revolvers? Thanks

Any "Standard" 38 special ammo has a low pressure that should work if...........

the weapon is in good working condition.

The factory 148gr WC target load has the lightest pressures of the old design ammo, that was made back in the day.

I have settled on 148 gr or 158 gr wadcutters. A gentleman at our range reloads them and I give him my brass and keep buying his product.





I also use these factory reloads

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Mike
S&WCA #3065

Thanks. I prefer Winchester white box.
So in general, higher the grain safer the load?

Seems like all their FMJ loads are 130.

They have a lead nose that is 150

...any US made standard velocity 38 Special 158 gr lead (RNL for the purist, or SWC for the “well informed”)

Any reason they don't make FMJ higher than 130? Is it not safe to use FMJ and just use lead?

158 gr FMJ would have a pretty low velocity and some risk of sticking in
the bore. FMJ ammo wears the bore faster than lead bullet ammo and
there is no reason to use it in old revolvers.

Oh, interesting. I was always under the impression that lead bullets were worse on guns due to buildup.

Why does FMJ wear the bore faster?

Nope. Even said so on the box from that era: Click on the picture for full resolution.

"experience shows metal patched bullets are frequently responsible for barrel trouble"



Copper is harder than lead.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Because the copper jacket is harder than plain lead. Depending upon your budget, I doubt you can afford to shoot enough ammo to make a difference. FWIW, the 130 gr FMJ-mandated by Laws of War-was original issue.

A Lewis Lead Remover, available from Brownells, takes care of any leading problem at a modest price.

It appears you're new to firearms. I'd suggest finding an NRA handgun instructor in your area (check with nra.org) after the Corona nonsense is over.

Thanks. Not new to firearms. I've just never shot lead nose ammo. Always FMJ.

I had a Victory years ago and asked this question then and was told to shoot 130 grain FMJ. That's what I shot through it a few times at the range. Never thought about it again until now as I'm looking for another and wanted to double check. Guess I got bad information.

Why was FMJ the original issue if it caused barrel issues?

If I recall correctly, US Military .38 Spl is 130 gr. FMJ. Don't know if it was so in WWII but in the 70s and 80s it was issue and soft shooting.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Alwslate nailed it

Still confused. The round that was originally meant for these guns and used in the military was 130 FMJ but the manufacturer says that they harm the bore? Or am I still misunderstanding?

The bullets originally intended for a .38 Special were all-lead and weighed around 158 gr. . Who knows why the military decides on anything, but it may be they went with full metal jacket to comply with international standards requiring fmj bullets in combat ammo, and maybe they went with a lighter bullet because at standard pressures a 158 gr. jacketed bullet might tend to get stuck on the bore because it creates more friction than a lead one.

As for being harder on the bore -- copper is harder than lead and will wear a bore faster than lead bullets -- but only very slightly faster. With handguns pressures and velocities you'll rarely find a revolver bore that has been worn out by either.

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Pisgah

The ORIGINAL was introduced in 1898 as an improvement over the .38 Long Colt. It had a 158 grain round nose lead bullet at a nominal 755 fps. Standard pressure is about 16,000 psi.

The 130 grain FMJ ammo duplicates the military ball cartridge, M41. It is an exceptionally puny load at one time intended for the aluminum cylinder aircrew revolvers. MIL-C-46392 of November 1963 called for a velocity of 950 fps. The reason for full metal jacket bullets is the military's requirement to meet the Hague and Geneva conventions.

Selling stuff you were already tooled up to sell the government is a way to leverage the economies of scale.

The issue .38 Special ammo for the WWII era Victory Models was a 158 grain steel jacketed round nose with a copper wash and contracted with the Remington UMC ammunition company and supplied in standard commercial packaging. I've got a couple boxes of it. Here is a photo.
The M41 ammo with the 130 grain FMJ didn't come around until around 1956.

But to answer the OP's question, the "safest" would be the target velocity, 148 grain full wadcutters followed by a standard velocity 158 grain lead round nose. The latter will also shoot to the sights which is a consideration.

Attached Images

WWII Rem-UMC 38 Special Ammo.jpg (247.1 KB, 35 views)

That's a cool box!

So would a wadcutter like this by Remington be the "safest"?

Performance WheelGun .38 SPL 50 Round Remington RPW38S3

And to clarify, does the 130 FMJ just wear down the rifling faster? Does it cause any other damage to the gun?

I have an older Colt .38 special that I have shot about 50 rounds of 130 FMJ (again, based off of poor info I was told years ago). Would that many rounds cause any serious damage?

You are absolutely fine to shoot standard pressure 38 special lead or fmj. The wear and tear of the fmj on a barrel is minimal. You would have to shoot the snot out of it to get to that point. If you have some familiarity with firearms then perhaps you have shot 9mm or 45 or 40 fmj. If you have shot a fair amount of those you may have noticed the rifling is just fine in those barrels. Same material used on the fmj 38 special.

So use what you like and go have fun.

Thanks!

I guess my original question was just what is the grain/velocity/load combo that puts the least strain on the gun. Wasn't even thinking fmj vs lead.

I wonder what type of barrel trouble.

It could be early examples of jackets bullets were too soft, not too hard, and left extremely hard to remove copper fouling. I remember reading about Barnes X bullets when they first came out and copper fouling was an issue with them at that time. Rifles generate a lot more pressure and fouling but 100 years ago early FMJ bullets might have had similar teething problems.

Factory 148 gr. hollow based wadcutter target loads will put the least strain on the gun . I wouldn't use any jacketed loads and be cautious of plated loads .
Lead bullets are your safest bet and 148 gr. HBWC Target loads the best of all .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Does Winchester or Remington make a target load like this? Can't seem to find them

X38SMRP | Winchester Ammunition

I've shot thousands of rounds of this PPU FMJ through a:

* 1899 Target
* 1941-vintage M&P
* Mid-50s vintage K-38 Target Masterpiece
* 2017-vintage 642

.38 SPECIAL - PPU USA Ammo

All shot to point-of-aim.

None fell apart or blew up.

I will die long before any are appreciably worn by this ammo.

Good, affordable range ammo.

Don't overthink this, or search for hard-to-find commercial ammo.

YMMV--and worth what you paid for it!

+1;
It is hard to make bad 148 and 158 wc ammo that has a 38 special "Standard" spec.

Some powders might be a little dirtier and some might not be the same fps but...........

they will all go bang and put a hole in your target at pressures
that will not harm your weapon or barrel.

Find some and buy it.

Actually, the WWII .38 Special U. S. military load used a 158 grain FMJ bullet. And the British .380 Mk 2 load used a 178 grain FMJ bullet.

The barrels of the WWII Victories were made using a more abrasion-resistant steel than the pre-War K-frame soft steel barrels because the military was required to use jacketed bullets.

Thanks guys!
So should I worry if approx. 50 rounds of 130 fmj have gone through an old revolver like this?

The doctor is in: FWIW, I don't think you're worried as much as you are concerned. I would rather a shooter express concern rather than do something reckless and unsafe. For example:

1. Firing magnum ammo from a .357 revolver with the chambers soaking in WD-40. You didn't want to see those primers.

2. Firing a 5.56/.223 AR pistol in an indoor range with the back plate designed for standard velocity handgun rounds, or, at most, 9mm. Put a nice hole in the plate, fortunately, not a through and through.

As to your ?, I would not be concerned if the gun were in serviceable condition. However, FMJ/ball ammo seems to concern you so you may want to restrict yourself to lead bullet ammunition, such as wadcutters or standard velocity RNL service-style rounds.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. IMHO, your gun is not old.

It is no longer 50yrs ago , 148 WC are no longer the mildest .38spl ammo . The " Cowboy " ammo with 125gr FP @ 700-750fps is even milder .

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The OP didn't ask the question he probably wanted to ask instead .:

What is appropriate ammo to use in a Victory , in casual shooter quantities ? The answer is pretty much any standard pressure .38spl , with 158gr lead having the highest probability of hitting POA/POI .

As long as it's in reasonable functional condition , a Victory isn't a weak gun , any std pressure .38spl will be 'safe" . Since you asked a question including a word ending with -est , that's waving a red cape for us to go way into the weeds with minor details .

Do jacketed bullets wear barells more quickly than lead bullets ? Yes ! At these pressures , would the difference be even detectable is less than 10K rounds, or even slightly significant is less than 25K rounds ? Probably not .

If you're looking for a good standard pressure loads, I recommend the Winchester "Train & Defend" ammunition with a 130 grain FMJ ballistically matched to a 130 grain JHP. It's what I use in my 1963 S&W Model 12-2 Airweight (alloy frame) 2 inch revolver.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

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Luke 22:36