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  #51  
Old 05-30-2020, 09:51 AM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Originally Posted by Gamecock View Post
I saw that also in my Lee manual, but that is a 5 1/2" barrel per VV's website. My P229 does 1430 with a 3.9" bbl. I am betting if I shot it out of a 5 1/2" barrel, it would beat that and again with much less pressure.

I have been wanting to get a .357 sig bbl for my M&P 5" just to see what it will do. Haven't pulled the trigger yet. Currently in a 4" SD40, I am getting like 1070 with a 180 XTP using Longshot powder. That same load in the 5" M&P is getting 1170 fps. 100 FPS for 1" of barrel. Seems on the short end of barrel lengths, you get more gain per inch than when the barrels start getting longer with certain powders.

Rosewood
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post

Tell us what your REAL WORLD velocity is, not an over inflated manufacturer's claim that was achieved out of a 5 1/2" Test barrel
1475 out of a 6" Fusion.

1430 from a 5" Colt government model.

1395 from a 4.25" Colt commander.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by pistolpete10 View Post
I have one thing to say, Carbide Dies do NOT require lube. That's enough reason for me to never consider bottleneck pistol cartridges.
It is true that Carbide Dies do NOT REQUIRE lube

That does not mean that they MUST be used WITHOUT lube

I hand load almost 2 dozen different cartridges. There are several straight wall cartridges that even with carbide dies, a quick blast of Hornady One Shot into the loose brass and then a bit of mixing it up with my hand makes a NOTICEABLE difference in the force necessary to size the cartridge. I would say I do this every 400 - 500 rounds

My cleaned brass is all stored in pretzel/gum/candy jars. So I spray One Lube for perhaps a second at most into the opening of the jar and I am ready to load



Hornady One Shot has been my go-to lube since it was introduced. I have not used the old fashioned messy and sticky lube that gets rolled on to the case in well over a decade
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  #54  
Old 05-30-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
Supposedly. I have found that the 9mm even with the carbide dies, loads much better when lubed. Granted it isn't exactly straight walled, but all straight walled resize so much easier than 9mm. The 9mm resizing is so tight, it makes me think there is something wrong, so I started lubing them with Hornady 1 shot.

Guess you will never load bottle necked rifle cartridges then?

Rosewood
I don't have any problem with 9MM resizing, never gonna lube them. AS for rifle cases, I don't load enough of them to worry about cleaning the lube off of. I do have Lee collet dies to neck size .270 and .243, limited success here like most Lee stuff. Had to go back to lubing the rifle cases and using conventional dies.
Sizing the 9MM should not be a problem, for many years I loaded 9MM on an old RCBS Jr press(it does not have compound linkage), no problem. I've no idea why you're having to lube them. I have 2 sets of RCBS dies for 9MM, both work well.
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Old 05-30-2020, 12:19 PM
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"Guess you will never load bottle necked rifle cartridges then?"
Once fired in my rifle and just neck size....
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Old 05-30-2020, 02:00 PM
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I am getting 1430 fps across the chronograph with a 124 grain XTP using longshot powder in the sig P229 3.9" bbl. Can you get that with a 38 super in equivalent length barrel? That is 563 ft*lbs of energy. I am asking because I don't know, never loaded a super. Hard to get that energy out of a .40 S&W also.

Rosewood
Yes you can. However, it is safer to use 9x23 Winchester or Starline Supercomp cases, which are built to take the higher pressure. I use AA #5 propellant. They will work in a .38 Super chamber.
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Old 05-30-2020, 02:16 PM
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I'd bet anything the reason straight-walled wins over bottleneck is manufacturing costs. A gun that shoots cheaper, straight-walled cases is going to do better on the market than one that requires more expensive bottleneck cases.
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  #58  
Old 05-30-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Anyone with a Government Model .45 can instantly convert it to .400 Cor-Bon by simply changing only the barrel and nothing else. Cases are easily formed by one pass of a .45 ACP case through a .400 CB sizing die. Ballistic performance can approach 10mm if desired. Feeding is flawless, never a misfeed. Yet it just never caught on. One main reason is that none of the handgun or ammo manufacturers (other than Cor-Bon) supported it.
This brings up another point. My first reaction to the above post was, "That would be awesome. I have a 45". Then I thought, "Why?". Do we really need the extra performance and cost? The vast majority of my bullets go through a sheet of paper then into a backstop. My 357 and 44 calibers kill deer handily. I believe they would work fine on two-legged varmints. Why should I pay more for a gun and loads?

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Old 05-30-2020, 04:11 PM
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Does anyone make guns for the 7.62X25 now?
Zastava still makes a couple, (the M57 and M88) albeit they're both just updated versions of older designs.
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  #60  
Old 05-30-2020, 04:25 PM
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Depends on the quantity. If I am loading a fairly small number at a time, say 100 or fewer, I will usually lube cases even though using carbide dies. Smoother and easier resizing and it doesn't take long. Just more messy.

I usually load a limited number of rounds a day or so before I go out shooting, instead of loading a large quantity far in advance.
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:42 PM
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This brings up another point. My first reaction to the above post was, "That would be awesome. I have a 45". Then I thought, "Why?". Do we really need the extra performance and cost? The vast majority of my bullets go through a sheet of paper then into a backstop. My 357 and 44 calibers kill deer handily. I believe they would work fine on two-legged varmints. Why should I pay more for a gun and loads?
I don't shoot large quantities of .400 Cor-Bon, I just like the idea of being able to shoot numerous calibers in the same gun, and I also like odd cartridge calibers. I have a M1911 (a real Colt M1911) set up to shoot 9mm, .38 Super, .45ACP, .400 Cor-Bon, and .22 LR. I haven't fired many rounds of .400 CB recently, but did shoot up two boxes yesterday. In my gun, the .400 CB groups better than .45 and shoots exactly to the fixed sights at 15 yards. I don't load .400 very heavily and only with lead bullets. The .400 CB does not provide any advantage in magazine capacity vs. the .45 ACP, and that probably makes it less attractive to many potential users.

Part of the attraction of the .400 CB to me is that it requires only a barrel change and a set of dies. I think I paid maybe $50 for a barrel around 10 years ago, off eBay.
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Old 05-30-2020, 05:03 PM
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The firearms industry is a fickle thing. Most people stick with tried and true cartridges that pass the “Walmart test” for ammo. That is, can you go into a Walmart and get ammo. Those that get into those cartridges love them. Including me. Love the .357 Sig and 5.7. Also, they are a little more of a pain to reload. Not so much to bother most reloaders IMHO. The few agencies I know of that have .357 Sig firearms still, love them. Most people that come in as first time firearms buyers want cheap and readily available ammo. Can’t blame them as they’re usually focused on practicing.


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  #63  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:20 PM
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Regarding the 357 Sig, nobody seems to be able to figure out if they headspace on the shoulder or the mouth of the cartridge.

How can I reload it if I can't get an answer?
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:01 PM
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Regarding the 357 Sig, nobody seems to be able to figure out if they headspace on the shoulder or the mouth of the cartridge.

How can I reload it if I can't get an answer?
It head spaces on the shoulder

After your first firing of the casing, adjust your dies so that they just touch the shoulder, do not set the shoulder back and you will be fine

I have runs tens of thousands of hand loaded rounds of 357SIG through various firearms for 25+ years now

Here are 30 hand loaded rounds of 357SIG put down range in just 2 seconds

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Old 05-30-2020, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
It head spaces on the shoulder. After your first firing of the casing, adjust your dies so that they just touch the shoulder, do not set the shoulder back and you will be fine
Good advice for most CF bottleneck rifle cartridges also. Once fired, the cases will fit your chamber perfectly with zero headspace, and all you really need to do is neck size. That idea may not work so well if you have more than one gun in the same caliber.
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Good advice for most CF bottleneck rifle cartridges also. Once fired, the cases will fit your chamber perfectly with zero headspace, and all you really need to do is neck size. That idea may not work so well if you have more than one gun in the same caliber.
Nor semi-automatics.

I neck size only for bolt guns. Not semis.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:25 AM
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Nor semi-automatics.

I neck size only for bolt guns. Not semis.
Semi automatics headspace on the shoulder too.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:42 PM
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Semi automatics headspace on the shoulder too.
?

Not neck sizing only for semi autos is standard reloading advise.

Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles – Sierra Bullets
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:00 AM
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[QUOTE=pistolpete10;140789867 I've no idea why you're having to lube them. I have 2 sets of RCBS dies for 9MM, both work well.[/QUOTE]

I don't have to lube them, it just makes sizing much easier. The 9mm clearly takes more force to resize than straight walled pistol cases, I.E. 40 S&W, 10mm, 380acp, 38/357 etc. Any time more force is required, it makes me nervous, harder to tell if something is wrong in the loading process.

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Old 06-01-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gamecock View Post
?

Not neck sizing only for semi autos is standard reloading advise.

Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles – Sierra Bullets
My comment is only addressing where bottle neck semi auto pistol cartridges headspace (that being the shoulder) not on the virtues of neck sizing only.

I always full resize every cartridge I reload.


Edit. I reread my other post And yes, it's sort of misleading.
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