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Old 05-28-2020, 11:00 PM
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Default .22 LR question

I went to the range today with an assortment of ammunition to shoot in my Walther P-22 and my Walther PPK/S 22. I had an assortment of old Federal .22s, both copper washed HPs and lead, and some CCI Quiet .22s. Plus a boat load of CCI Mini-Mags.

Both guns experience routine failures to feed/jams, whatever you want to call it. Maybe soft strikes. Hard to say. I could eject a round, fire the next, then the next one up doesn't fire. Wvery round eventually fired, often as single shot breech loads.

Is it the ammunition or it is something I'm doing wrong?

Next range run I'll use CCI Stingers and see if that works better.

Comments solicited.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:03 PM
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If clean most autos work fine w/ CCI ammo.
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:54 PM
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My most finicky .22 is my M41. It hates Remington but since I've switched to CCI standard velocity 40 gr. ammo (many many years ago) I honestly don't remember having a single jam or malfunction. I did have one or two bad primers where the round failed to fire (even after multiple hits) - but that was a defective round - not a gun/ammo issue. IMHO the rating of .22 RF ammo is the following (best to worst). Again, just my opinion & experience ......

1) CCI
2) Federal
3) Winchester
4) Remington
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:02 AM
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Those quiet .22s may not have the power to cycle a semiauto reliably.
Reliable ignition is the drawback with .22s. The CCIs work the best for me.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:05 AM
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Every .22 rimfire firearm I have ever owned (dozens) has displayed some ammo preferences, and semi-auto handguns are almost certain to be finicky about what they are fed.

Best advice I can offer to anyone interested is to purchase a box of several different makes and types, then try them in your firearms. Those that work the best should send you looking to purchase a case, or several bricks, of the same brand, type, and lot number. When you run out of those you will be back to square one, because the ammunition produced next year will almost always be different than what you bought last year.

The only possible exception to this rule would be the ultimate high-end competition ammo from companies like Eley and others who produce Olympic-grade stuff for those who are willing to pay 10 or 12 times the price of regular production ammo.

Avoid the promotional deals at bargain prices. Buy good quality regular production ammo from CCI, Federal, or Remington and you will probably be good to go. Even at that you will still need to test every new batch for functioning and accuracy in your guns.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:09 AM
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I would think that the CCI mini mags should work. Or that Winchester one, that comes in a red plastic box, a high velocity one? Big X on the label.
If I remember tomorrow, I'll take a pic. I still have a 22 rifle somewhere....
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:10 AM
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When I have had repeated failures to fire and the cartridges have fired on re-strike (meaning the primers were OK), the problem has been due to one of three causes:

1. The ammo was too weak to fully cycle the slide. However, this cause is often accompanied by failures to eject, which you said did not happen. I know CCI Quiet is pretty weak ammo, but CCI Mini-mags are not. I'm not sure about the old Federals, I've not used them. If you get the same problem with Stingers, then you can eliminate weak ammo as the source of your failures to fire, as they are hot, hot, hot.

2. Your recoil spring assemblies are weak. Check for this by pushing forward on the slide after firing a round. If it moves, the slide is not fully closing and the firing pin is not getting close enough to the cartridge on the return to make solid contact.

3. I'm not familiar with Walthers, but I assume they have a firing pin spring. If it is weak, that could be the source of the failures to fire. I've replaced the striker assembly in my M&P 40c for that very reason. Also, check the condition of the firing pin itself. It may have broken.

Now if everything works perfectly when you use the Stingers, then your Walthers may simply favor high velocity rounds. Then you'll be stuck with Stingers and/or CCI Velocitors. But don't fret, Stingers are a hoot to shoot, with a nice muzzle flame (at least from my Ruger).
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:02 AM
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Any 22 can be finicky but some are much worse than others.

About 30 years ago I owned a Walther TPH and it was the most unreliable handgun I ever owned. Stovepipes were common but more often it acted like there was not enough power and the empty casing would stay in the gun. Despite acting like it needed more powerful ammo it actually ran much better with standard velocity. I traded it for a Beretta 21A which worked a lot better. I later read the Walther I had was designed for standard velocity ammo since that was much more common in Europe. It was the only 22 I have ever owned that did not run well with CCI MiniMags but worked better with some other ammo. As a general rule a 22 that wont run well with MiniMags will not run well with any ammo.

I didn't see any standard velocity ammo listed. Before you give up try some high quality standard velocity ammo. CCI standard velocity is good stuff.

If your guns don't run well with CCI MiniMags or CCI standard velocity its probably the guns, not the ammo. Try some more types but don't get your hopes up.

Guns designed from the ground up to be 22s tend to be more reliable than ones designed to look like a centerfire pistol. Before you give up on all 22s try something like a Ruger Mark 4, S&W Victory or Browning Buckmark. If you want something smaller I can highly recommend the S&W M&P 22 compact. My 22 compact is the most reliable 22 I have ever owned.
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:28 AM
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I too find CCI Standard Velocity the best bet for my .22 RF Semi-Autos. My High Standard Victor seems to be happy with any brand while my 41 will only reliably eat CCIs. My Browning is not as picky but my .22 Conversion Kits all need mini Mags - Again CCI is best in them.

Bob
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:19 AM
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I would first, clean and look them over good. then shoot again with fresh good quality ammo....my only modern .22 auto is a Ruger SR22....never missed a lick yet....my 1923 Colt Woodsman runs only std velocity ammo and it is also a shooter.....good luck, opinions only here
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:29 AM
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I would recommend cleaning and then cleaning some more. If you can't get at the firing pin and it's 'channel', perhaps you could soak the whole slide and the rest of the gun in kerosene for about a week. Then blast everything with compressed air and give it a try. I've 'fixed' guns that were totally locked up simply by cleaning them.... REALLY. I own a simple Ruger Single Six that sat untouched in my safe for 10 or 15 years. When I took it out, I couldn't cock it; it was toally locked up. After a thorough cleaning/degreasing, it performed perfectly once again.
IMHO of course,
J
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:02 AM
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First some questions: Is this the first time you've fired them? Have these guns ever worked? Have they been sitting unused for a long time?

Do the simple stuff first. If they're new to you, have somebody else try them. Maybe it's your technique. If they worked in the past or have been sitting a long time, then as others have said clean and lube them. If they've been in regular use without trouble and now give you issues, it may be time to re-spring them. Even so, I'd clean and lube them before "repairing" them. It's odd that they both gave trouble at the same time, so I'm betting they're dirty, have gummed up lube or maybe your technique.

A 22 can drive you nuts. My biggest pain was a S&W Model 41. They're notorious for crankiness. Mine was troublesome until I fed it some Eley Target. Yes, it's more expensive than CCI standard, but it worked flawlessly. I suspect it's the greasy bullet lube or perhaps cartridge dimensions. I had replaced springs and the extractor. Cleaned an lubed the gun with all sorts of different stuff. In the end, it was the ammo choice. It runs great when well fed.

Last edited by Krogen; 05-29-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:59 AM
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When I first got my SW22 Victory any .22lr under 1,000 fps would not function well, lots of jams. Now after 2,000 rounds through it it will handle anything I put through it. My favorite round for the SW22 and the 22 Compact is.................


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Old 05-29-2020, 11:10 AM
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Default .22 reliability

Part of the problems with any .22 ammo is in the design and manufacturing process.

Start with the design. The case rim and bullet diameter are the same. In a tight chamber this creates a problem if the bullet "flows" over the case mouth. This is a common case of FTF!

In the manufacturing process the case is "spun" in order to get the primer compound to flow around the inside of the case rim. If the compound doesn't flow properly the round won't fire!

Promo ammo is probably manufactured following different Q/C standards to keep costs down.

For quite a few years I competed in a "Gallery" Bulls-eye league. No one was able to complete a match using any brand of "promo" ammo! Thanks to "alibies" shooters were able to complete most matches though.

The only ammo used by the top shooters was either Ely or CCI/SV unless "vintage" ammo was used!

Failures to feed fall into three categories:

Ammo: covered above

Magazines: Most 22 pistols rely on magazine feed lips for proper feeding. Maladjusted feed lips lead to FTF's!

Maintenance: If this has to be explained...….

Smiles,

Last edited by jjfitch; 05-29-2020 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Syntax
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:47 AM
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Be careful with stingers. Their case length is longer than standard 22 long rifle and could damage the bbl throat.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:45 PM
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I would not expect the #960 Quite 40gr bullet to do well in a pistol with the reduced speeds.

In my Marlin Semi-Auto it puts out 695fps.....
and a Winchester pump has a 640fps logging.

Just a wee bit under the standard 1200fps loads ................
but they are easy on the ears.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
I would recommend cleaning and then cleaning some more.
For sure I'll clean them.

Quote:
First some questions: Is this the first time you've fired them? Have these guns ever worked? Have they been sitting unused for a long time?
Oh, yes, a couple of years in storage after the 2018 fire. They were thoroughly cleaned and stored by my FFL.

I recollect the P-22 working perfectly, just like my other one. I also recollect the PPK/S 22 NOT working perfectly - quite awhile back, before the fire.

So, clean and try other ammunition is coming up.

Quote:
Do the simple stuff first. If they're new to you, have somebody else try them.
There were two of us. Same problem.

Stay tuned; I'll be back again with a future report. I don't shoot .22s often but I guess I'll have to now!
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:10 PM
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I have several .22's - 10/22, Charger, MkII, Single-Six, Wrangler, 617 ten shooter, and my oldest gun (from my younger generation days) a Walther TPH copy made by American Arms (Erma-Werkes clone), the PX-22. It only works well (100%) with CCI 36gr HP. All the others work with any .22 I use. My 617 loves Ely and Aquila above others. .22's are ammo sensitive little beasts, some more finicky than others, but so fun to shoot.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
So, clean and try other ammunition is coming up.
My M41 is my most finicky and I only shoot SV ammo in it. Way back when (Y2K era), this was the CCI SV in the 50 rnd boxes with the black bullets that were made by CCI and not the stuff made by Federal under contract. After the first shortage, the QC seems to be a much lower priority.

A fellow shooter finally convinced me that the Wolf MT was not Russian junk but rebranded quality SK Standard Plus, that really paid attention to QC. I tried a brick and ended up getting 2 cases of the stuff. It performed flawlessly in my M41 and indeed all my .22s, autos, lever, bolts, whatever.

The Wolf brand is now made by Eley and I have no experience with that loading and can't comment on it.

But, I can comment on the SK Standard Plus and while more expensive than CCI SV, the pleasure of a shooting session with zero issues in firing/function and above average accuracy, outweighs the the slightly higher cost.

I would really suggest getting 1 brick of the SK just to see how it performs for you and your .22s. The priority SK puts on QC over profit really shines through. That and the 'greasy kid stuff' lube they use rather than the dried wax lube CCI favors also seems to make a huge difference for the good.

Rob
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:07 PM
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I'm not up on current guns, S&W, Walther and pretty much everything else, but I have a PPK/S .22 that I bought used about twenty-five years. I've tried a variety of ammos in it (like you have to do with .22s) and the CCI SV that I use in everything else works pretty well in the PPK/S.

As for the Walther P22 mentioned in the original post, I'm not sure exactly what this is, but I bought a new P22 (S&W, Walther, both?) more than twenty years ago. It was certainly the most inaccurate handgun I've ever owned, and I've had many, too many. Frequent jams were the norm regardless of ammo. Sent it back to S&W and the jam problem was corrected, maybe entirely, can't remember, but when I inquired on the phone about the poor accuracy, the S&W rep said, "These aren't target pistols". I doubt the man ever spoke truer words than those.

Regardless of the .22, try lots of ammo. The real cheap stuff is often junk; spend a few dollars more and get something a little better. One HV ammo may work an action more reliably than one SV ammo, but the reverse can be true just about as often.
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