|
|
05-29-2020, 06:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Liked 741 Times in 368 Posts
|
|
HSM .357 Bear Load
Does anyone here have experience with the HSM Bear Load in .357 magnum? My trip to Colorado probably won't happen this summer due to "the virus" and national park restrictions. But if we do happen to be able to go I think I will take my .357 for security. Last time, we were camping right in the middle of bear
habitat and were warned by the rangers to be diligent when out and about and especially in camp at night. I've opted for the .357 because I figure anyone in our group could handle a .357 over one of my .44's or .454. 2 load options, the HSM bear load, or the Buffalo Bore heavy .357, both are 180 gr hard cast, just different velocities.
|
05-29-2020, 06:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Denver area
Posts: 6,242
Likes: 20,270
Liked 13,093 Times in 4,169 Posts
|
|
The 357 is a good choice.
I’d select the lower velocity round.
We have black bear here in Colorado, generally of modest size.
A 158 gr hard cast swc 357 is plenty for our bear. Chasing high velocity and heavy for caliber just makes accurate follow up shots more difficult.
Fantasies of fending off a bear attack are fun, but usually don’t match up with reality.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-29-2020, 06:58 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 1,586
Liked 2,840 Times in 1,142 Posts
|
|
The HSM Bear Load is a good round. I have a couple of boxes of their 44 magnum bear loads. Shot a cylinder full in my Vaquero. A handful indeed.
__________________
Heavily armed old man.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-30-2020, 08:15 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,800
Likes: 7,843
Liked 25,708 Times in 8,687 Posts
|
|
No experience with the HSM, but my Fav. for hiking in the woods is the Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast semi wad cutter. I've chronographed it at over 1300 fps out of my 3" M65 every time.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-30-2020, 09:02 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 1,054
Liked 3,519 Times in 961 Posts
|
|
I load the Missouri coated 180gr Pugnose with a healthy dose of H110. Runs around 1400fps out of mu 8 3/8” M686. Great Hog Load. Would think it would work equally as well on bear. It’s a stout load recoil wise. Not bad with a long tube. Shot some this week out of my 3” M65 that I carry on my belt hunting. It’s manageable but a handful.
|
05-30-2020, 11:38 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,170
Likes: 1,170
Liked 5,871 Times in 1,246 Posts
|
|
People have argued for years about whether the 357 is an adequate bear defense round. I ran across this article some time back that convinced me it is. I should note that we’ve already had about a half dozen grizzly/human encounters in Wyoming and Montana this Spring so this tends to be more than a matter of academic interest around here.
The Case For The 357 Magnum – Alaska Gunsite
__________________
Everybody could shoot
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-30-2020, 12:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 604
Likes: 21
Liked 660 Times in 284 Posts
|
|
It took me an hour to extract a spent HSM cartridge from my Marlin one time. I'm pretty sure pressure had something to do with it.
|
05-30-2020, 08:15 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA
Posts: 280
Likes: 159
Liked 361 Times in 106 Posts
|
|
Either will be fine, you can also get the Federal Hard Cast 180gr load, it runs slightly slower, but is easy to extract in every rifle and revolver I have shot it in.
__________________
Captain Dave Funk
|
05-30-2020, 08:25 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 5,501
Liked 6,680 Times in 1,174 Posts
|
|
I have the HSM Bear Load in .357 and .44 Magnum. Load up with the .357 in a 3-4" K Frame when hiking in the NC mountains. Use the .44 Mag in a 5" 629 when hiking in the far eastern NC swamps where we get huuuuuuge 600-800 lb black bear. But, never ever had any bear problems. I've seen 30+ in a weekend out east, had a few close encounters in trails, never so much as a mutual glance and the bear trots off. Experience tells me that I do not need to worry about them anymore but it feels better to be apprioriately armed so far out in the middle of nowhere.
Not to add another caliber to the discussion, but I had to take a Glock 40 (extended barrel 10mm) on my last trip. Injured my arm/elbow and could not properly handle the large stainless N frame for a few weeks.
Back on topic, look forward to comments from those who used the rounds for their intended purpose.
Last edited by NCBeagle; 05-30-2020 at 08:26 PM.
|
05-31-2020, 05:40 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 957
Liked 949 Times in 419 Posts
|
|
...bear spray even better, stops them in their tracks and you won’t be arrested like you would be if using your firearm in defense...you’ll have to prove your innocence unfortunately in the latter circumstance; unless, you’re bloodied up by one and your firearm managed to save your rear!
...bear spray
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-01-2020, 06:55 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV
...bear spray even better, stops them in their tracks and you won’t be arrested like you would be if using your firearm in defense...you’ll have to prove your innocence unfortunately in the latter circumstance; unless, you’re bloodied up by one and your firearm managed to save your rear!
...bear spray
|
Spray is ok on no wind days..............
Days with 20mph wind in your face is not a good thing.
My sister learned the hard way, spraying a dog, in the wind.
Just got to know what is best, at the time.
Last edited by Nevada Ed; 06-03-2020 at 07:22 PM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 09:53 AM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Winchester, Wyoming
Posts: 369
Likes: 379
Liked 750 Times in 327 Posts
|
|
I certainly understand “why” you chose the .357....as the potential users are not handgunners. And, the .357 can be effective on a treed or baited bear.....but far too little cartridge for an aggressive or enraged bear! Many years ago when my only centerfire handgun was a .357, I was loading some “very” hot 160 grain JSP’s in my Model 28 S&W, for Whitetail hunting”! Imagine my dismay, when my “deer load” was used on a large boar coon in a tree. It required 2 shots to bring him down.....and he still ran off. The first shot was just behind the ribs, the second just behind the shoulder. Both would have been fatal....eventually! I don’t think I would rely upon a .357 to quickly incapacitate an excited bear! Just my “unsolicited” advice! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 06-02-2020 at 09:56 AM.
|
06-02-2020, 11:09 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Liked 741 Times in 368 Posts
|
|
.357
Quote:
Originally Posted by memtb
I certainly understand “why” you chose the .357....as the potential users are not handgunners. And, the .357 can be effective on a treed or baited bear.....but far too little cartridge for an aggressive or enraged bear! Many years ago when my only centerfire handgun was a .357, I was loading some “very” hot 160 grain JSP’s in my Model 28 S&W, for Whitetail hunting”! Imagine my dismay, when my “deer load” was used on a large boar coon in a tree. It required 2 shots to bring him down.....and he still ran off. The first shot was just behind the ribs, the second just behind the shoulder. Both would have been fatal....eventually! I don’t think I would rely upon a .357 to quickly incapacitate an excited bear! Just my “unsolicited” advice! memtb
|
If I were by myself the gun carried would be my .454, but considering that my wife and my son's girlfriend can't shoot it, and probably the same for my .44 magnum I have opted for the .357.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 11:22 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Liked 741 Times in 368 Posts
|
|
Nevada Ed is.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed
Spray is ok on no wind days..............
Days with 20mph wind in your face is not a good thing.
My sister learned the hard way, spraying a dog, in the wind.
Just got to know what is best, at the time.
|
Nevada Ed is absolutely correct, spray is not much use on a windy day, unless the wind is blowing directly into the bears face, and even then spray may not "stop them in their tracks". Not only will the .357 be carried for bear, it is also for human protection as not everyone you come across on a trail is an upstanding, law abiding good samaritan. Granted, a bear encounter is unlikely, as is running into a bad human, but as soon as you drop your guard the unexpected happens.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-03-2020, 10:04 AM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Winchester, Wyoming
Posts: 369
Likes: 379
Liked 750 Times in 327 Posts
|
|
Kid44, If you handload, and grip size is not an issue.....I think that a light load 44 or 454 would actually have a significant edge over the .357....while maintaining comfortable shooting. Unless it’s a large frame, fairly heavy .357, with a maximum charge, moderately heavy bullet....the .357 will have a pretty sporty recoil! Due to the limited velocities of handguns, energy is a non-issue. A larger permanent wound cavity, larger temporary cavity (cavitation is the term, I think) and probably deeper penetration are things that the larger diameter bullet should offer! Good Luck with whichever route you take.....and hopefully you’ll just be “prepared” and not “need” it! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 06-03-2020 at 10:07 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-03-2020, 01:34 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by memtb
Kid44, If you handload, and grip size is not an issue.....I think that a light load 44 or 454 would actually have a significant edge over the .357....while maintaining comfortable shooting. Unless it’s a large frame, fairly heavy .357, with a maximum charge, moderately heavy bullet....the .357 will have a pretty sporty recoil! Due to the limited velocities of handguns, energy is a non-issue. A larger permanent wound cavity, larger temporary cavity (cavitation is the term, I think) and probably deeper penetration are things that the larger diameter bullet should offer! Good Luck with whichever route you take.....and hopefully you’ll just be “prepared” and not “need” it! memtb
|
Right on................
If I can make my 30-06 into a 30-30, I am sure that
a 44 Magnum can be loaded down to a .357 in recoil pressures............
A .430" 240gr bullet at 1200fps has a ME of 767.
at 50 yards it matches a 357 magnum 158 XTP loading.......
if it can be shot well.
Last edited by Nevada Ed; 06-03-2020 at 01:57 PM.
|
06-03-2020, 05:30 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 252
Likes: 320
Liked 312 Times in 141 Posts
|
|
I'll never forget the day my friend shot some 180 grain HSM Bear Load in .357 from his Ruger Blackhawk. The entire range vibrated and some of the hair on the front of his head raised up in the air every time he fired. It was a very small range, but still.....
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-04-2020, 01:25 AM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: TX
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 10
Liked 2,152 Times in 854 Posts
|
|
Cavities have nothing to do with this. Either the bullet penetrates the bear's brain case, or it doesn't. A .357 hardcast 158 or 180 grain will do this, and do it better than a milder .44 handload.
Last edited by Univibe; 06-04-2020 at 01:26 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-04-2020, 08:06 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 22,082
Likes: 10,795
Liked 15,509 Times in 6,796 Posts
|
|
"Oh Lord, the bear is so big and my gun is so small."
__________________
Still Running Against the Wind
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-04-2020, 05:20 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 737
Likes: 1,531
Liked 1,328 Times in 456 Posts
|
|
I've shot the HSM Bear load in a 6 inch S&W 686 and a 4 5/8" Blackhawk.
It is very consistent ammo, only having a variation between rounds of 30 fps. or so. Accuracy was good too.
A box of 50 HSM Bear Loads is quite reasonable at $34 or so, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff.
__________________
U. S. Army Veteran
|
06-04-2020, 05:36 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 890
Likes: 0
Liked 741 Times in 368 Posts
|
|
I've yet to figure out
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandog
I've shot the HSM Bear load in a 6 inch S&W 686 and a 4 5/8" Blackhawk.
It is very consistent ammo, only having a variation between rounds of 30 fps. or so. Accuracy was good too.
A box of 50 HSM Bear Loads is quite reasonable at $34 or so, much cheaper than the Buffalo Bore stuff.
|
I've yet t figure out why Buffalo Bore is so expensive, other than for the reason "because it is". Good ammo made from quality components, but so is the other "boutique ammo" offered by various manufacturers today at much cheaper prices.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-22-2020, 12:24 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,422
Likes: 1,000
Liked 3,595 Times in 1,521 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg
The 357 is a good choice.
I’d select the lower velocity round.
We have black bear here in Colorado, generally of modest size.
A 158 gr hard cast swc 357 is plenty for our bear. Chasing high velocity and heavy for caliber just makes accurate follow up shots more difficult.
Fantasies of fending off a bear attack are fun, but usually don’t match up with reality.
|
You are probably better off with something small like a Ruger SP-101 with a snub barrel. It will hurt less when the grizzly shoves it up your keister.
And being stainless, your widow can rinse it off and sell it.
I plan on a Glock M40. It's 6" slide will let me use it as an effective hammering device on the grizzly's snout to get it to let go of my body.
Last edited by Racer X; 06-22-2020 at 12:28 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-30-2020, 04:13 PM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,354 Times in 5,549 Posts
|
|
The last bear we shot in his butt I found a extra 30 cal bullet it wasnt ours. Someone shot him running away the year before.
We helped the clowns look for a wounded bear that year. The next year we found it alive.
You feel safe with a 357? With a wounded bear?
I carried a 44 mag side arm for years with a 30-06. I bumped up to a 338wm when the droppings were the size of a half a five gallon bucket in the apple orchard.
We had a local blackbear that was 400# that’s a big rug.
Btw I do trust my 140 gr JHP loads in my 357.
Last edited by BigBill; 06-30-2020 at 04:19 PM.
|
06-30-2020, 04:20 PM
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,354 Times in 5,549 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
"Oh Lord, the bear is so big and my gun is so small."
|
Don’t shoot I’m yogie
|
07-07-2020, 09:43 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UBE, PA
Posts: 163
Likes: 59
Liked 106 Times in 65 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV
...bear spray even better, stops them in their tracks and you won’t be arrested like you would be if using your firearm in defense...you’ll have to prove your innocence unfortunately in the latter circumstance; unless, you’re bloodied up by one and your firearm managed to save your rear!
...bear spray
|
The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation magazine had a couple really good articles on Grizzly Bear spray use, and a comparison of handgun use. Totaling results from the Rocky Mountain states, 98% of the bear spray encounters resulted in the bear leaving the scene, 2% required more force, (or the bear chewed the sprayer?).
The victims using a handgun or rifle were 75% successful, the other 25% were chewed up pretty bad or killed by the bear. Shooting a grizzly in most states is only a bit better than getting mauled, black bears out of season is not going to make for a nice vacation.
38 SPCL HV has good advice. I'm heading to WY this fall for a cow elk hunt in a grizzly rich area. I will have a M69 in a holster, but I sure hope the pepper spray works if it comes to that.
|
07-07-2020, 10:48 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,838
Likes: 7,670
Liked 7,367 Times in 2,508 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 38SPL HV
...bear spray even better, stops them in their tracks and you won’t be arrested like you would be if using your firearm in defense...you’ll have to prove your innocence unfortunately in the latter circumstance; unless, you’re bloodied up by one and your firearm managed to save your rear!
...bear spray
|
You can carry Bear Spray if you like. I'll stick with a firearm.
I'm just a teensy bit more afraid of being savagely ripped apart or eaten alive in the middle of the wilderness than I am of the courtroom boogeyman.
Yeah, yeah, I know... "B-B-But he can take all of your munnies and throw you in jail!"
However, there's just something about the idea of being brutally murdered that just makes Mr. Courtroom Boogeyman seem like just some fast-talking guy in a suit who can't always successfully convince the court that you're a bad person, so I'd rather take my chances with him.
__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|