Bought an agency marked pre-10 snubby recently that came with partial (41 rounds) box of what I believe is the early Super Vel 39 ammo. This was before Winchester stopped selling brass to the company in 1969?. Headstamp is Winchester 38+P. I thought the +P wasn't standardized until 1974. Note that the box is not marked +P.

Edit: OK, the box is Super Vel but the ammo is Winchester silvertip. Thanks guys, I shoulda caught that.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

For information and edification, later production Super Vel.

It looks like someone put some Winchester Silver-Tip rounds in a Super Vel box. The Super Vel 110gr. JSP was the issued round for my agency when I first joined, and that picture is definitely not Super Vel. BMCGILVRAY's picture looks like the Super Vel 110 JHP, which we were not allowed to carry (but the JSP seemed to work just fine....).

Now that you mention it... the box is marked JSP while the round are HP. That is just the way I got it so I appologize for any errors.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Hi Randy,
Yes, those are Winchester Silvertips.

Here’s a box of Super Vel .38 Special 110gr JSP’s that were purchased new in March of 1970.







I shot a lot of that in the past, but managed to save an assortment for old time sake!



Dave

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"I also cook."

I had access to a large quantity of Super Vel in about 1976. It was old stock that a FFL dealer friend had acquired a few years before. I shot quite a bit of it back when my Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel was the only handgun I had.

Chronograph tested some from this batch of Super Vel in July of 1980. I ultimately shot it all away except for a single box.

In 2010 I discovered a couple more boxes of the Super Vel I had stored away and hidden from myself. I undertook to retest the ammunition in the same revolvers I had used in 1980. I also tested it in other barrel lengths.

It was scalding hot summer time on both occasions so temperature was approximately the same. I recall that in both instances it was hot, but this is Texas in summer.

Here's the July of 1980 tests.

Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel w/4-inch barrel
MV 1237 fps
ME 376 ft./lbs.

Smith & Wesson Model 14 w/8 3/8-inch barrel
MV 1319 fps
ME 425 ft./lbs.

Here are the June of 2010 tests using the same two revolvers used in 1980.

Model 10 4-inch
MV 1195 fps
ME 349 ft./lbs.

Model 14 8 3/8-inch
MV 1301 fps
ME 414 ft./lbs.

Here are some additional tests conducted in 2010 using two additional barrel lengths.

Model 10 w/2-inch barrel
MV 981 fps
ME 216 ft./lbs.

Model 27 w/6-inch barrel
MV 1248 fps
ME 380 ft./lbs.

The original SV was some warm ammo at the time. If you wanted velocity it was a go to ammo.
Today there are several 'boutique' manufacturers that produce HV ammo.

I'd have to look up the details, but prior to the +P designation, I think Norma 110 grain .38 Special was a bit warmer than Super Vel.

Groo here
SV gave new life to the 38spec and really started the HP trend...
I have some New SV 38spec "Super Snub" 90gr HP..
And it has become my "city" load of choice...............................

That's probably true.....

Norma was not afraid to take thing to the limit in those days.

Some of the hottest factory 10mm was loaded by Norma.

In my pile of "junk", I still have a couple of hundred of those Norma .38 Spl. 110 grain, MAGNUM rounds.

Now, understand..... in no way, shape, or form were they Magnum ammunition... That was the way that Norma marketed them, though.

My Dad and I both used Super Vel in the 70’s. A few years ago when Dad passed I found this box marked Super Vel POLICE in his stuff. Missing 18 rounds. Probably 6 in his Model 10 and 12 in the dump boxes. I use the new SuperVel today. Particularly their Hush Puppy 9mm 147 grain rounds in a suppressed short barrel rifle. And also a .38spl Snub Load that’s pretty hot.

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SWCA 3255 SWHF 615

Boy did this thread bring back memories . The OSHP (Ohio) switched to the Super Vel in 70 or 71 after we converted to the S&W Model 10 4" Heavy Barrel. We had a little make shift range near the post and I remember shooting some of the old lead ball ammo and then shooting the JSP that s&wchad posted in his pics above . What a difference ! I believe I read that Super Vel ammo is available again after a long absence . ( proud owner of a Model 10 stainless 4" and it is one of my favorites ! )

What would a decent ammo supply be without the contributions of Lee Jurras.

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Has anyone ever gel tested the old SV ammo to see if it actually performs? I know it was the first factory to push the limits on pressure and velocity, but the bullets back then were not the best design. I wonder if they actually performed, or if they just whizzed through the bad guys quicker than the standard stuff.

The Legend of Super Vel Ammo

Thanks for posting that article, RWJ.

The results seem similar to gel tests of 9mm 115gr JHP +P+, at about 1300fps, that I've seen, IIRC. Back in the 90s I had some CorBon 9mm 115gr JHP +P, which was rated at 1350fps, and it worked nicely in my Beretta 92FS.

I thought it was interesting that the .357 Magnum 110gr JHP load got 1303fps out of a 4" barrel. I've used WWB .357 Magnum 110gr SJHP before, and considered it a mild load out of a 3" 65. Winchester's website says the MV is 1295fps, but I suppose that could be out of a test barrel (they don't specify barrel type or length).

If anyone has access to old copies of HANDLOADER magazine (#26 and #27), there is an interesting in-depth two-part article dealing with Super Vel and other similar .38 Special ammos of the day (1970).

I first saw this load in 1976. Yes, a very hot load doing an honest 1200 FPS in 4". No indication on box or case head about its power. Problem was, the bullet was a FMJ with a tiny dimple in the nose pretending to be a hollow point. This didn't prevent some of us (including yours truly, and against regs) from using this round as a carry load. If you had ever been in a NYC subway car at 2AM, you would know why. In 1980, Norma re-introduced this round as their ".38 Magnum." Same bullet, but not as hot as the earlier "planetwrecker."

As to the OP's ammo, this is one reason why I no longer attend shows. It gets old real fast, cuteypies changing/swapping ammo in factory boxes, or less than full boxes with crummy handloads or crumpled paper toweling filling the empty space. Can't stand this minor league, Mickey Mouse, amateur hour way of doing "business."

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

The Super Vel box and contents came to me via 2 now retired, police officers. It came with an agency marked gun of late 1950s vintage as an item to display with this particular gun. I am not an ammo collector but like to have period boxes to use in photos. The box and contents had been a gift from one LEO to another and then to me. I was the one who make the assumption that the contents matched the box and posted as an interesting "find". I'll post the gun in anothr forum. I appologize for my ***-umption as to the contents. Regarding ammo, though, if you want to discuss 44-77 Shaprs BN or 25-21 Pope SS, I'm good as I have a bit of experience with both.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

I didn't have any Super-Vel to compare it with, but I got some attention as the "new guy" who showed up with the Norma stuff in my "bring your own everything but the badge" department in the late 70s. Mercy but it rocked that 1926 6" M&P.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

According to an old Speer manual from the Super vel era, Speer chronographed the Norma 110 JHP at 1366 from a 6" S&W; advertised velocity was 1542. Super Vel 110 JHP chronographed at 1246 from a 6" S&W; advertised velocity was 1370. Maybe both a bit short of published figures, but still pretty warm.

When I bought my first Model 36 snub nose new in 1970, I bought a box of the Super Vel 110 JHP at the same time. Few gave any thought in the pre-+P days to the avoidance of any ammunition as long it was marked .38 Special, just like the roll stamp on a revolver's barrel.