Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Ammo All Ammo Discussions Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:04 PM
Kid44 Kid44 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Liked 514 Times in 267 Posts
Default Hard cast, JHP or JSP??

Considering using a 6" S&W L-Frame .357 for deer this season. Deer are thin skinned to begin with, what bullet would be better, hard cast, JHP or JSP.. Hard cast would most likely be a through and through with very little internal damage, same for JSP with maybe a little internal damage and the JHP may open up too much and not provide enough penetration. Any suggestions, other than use a bigger caliber? I really want to try the .357 and keep the range relatively short, similar to bow ranges.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:30 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 2,898
Liked 761 Times in 388 Posts
Default

For deer a 158 JHP will work . Limit shots to 50yds or so . Horn XTP , Nosler , Sierra all work well . Push them as fast as you can accurately place them . If you limit range & place your shots well you'll be fine . For 357 hunting I much prefer a rifle as added velocity allows heavier bullets & allows you to extend range . I still limit shots to 75yds personally with a 357 mag . JSP & heavy cast for rifle , JHP & cast for handgun .
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:39 PM
OKFC05 OKFC05 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 7,812
Likes: 2,618
Liked 4,419 Times in 1,912 Posts
Default

I use 158gr jsp over W296. Works fine on our small whitetail and coyotes, but I don't get a shock effect like my .270, so I limit myself to the distance I can hit a plate every time and pass up less than ideal angles. Like a bow, shot placement is very important.
__________________
Science plus Art
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-04-2020, 01:54 PM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is online now
SWCA Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 8,503
Likes: 1,477
Liked 14,709 Times in 4,162 Posts
Default

Where are you hunting Deer?

Here in Florida, they are barely larger that our big dogs

Up North, they grow to considerably larger proportions

I am in a agreement with using a JSP and 50 - 75 yards is your friend

However, I usually use the Remington 180 SJHP over a LARGE charge of H110 . . . . Once those have faded away, I will probably switch to the Winchester 158 JHPs
__________________
"Acta non verba"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 06-04-2020, 02:35 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,641
Likes: 949
Liked 5,970 Times in 2,925 Posts
Default

The JHP will expand and use up all its energy, which can be a good thing, if a shoulder bone is not hit...........

The SP tip design will give deeper penetration and maybe an exit hole, for a blood trail, if needed, depending on the bullet.

I have yet to use a .357 JHP on my Nevada deer, though.
Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-04-2020, 03:48 PM
Kid44 Kid44 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Liked 514 Times in 267 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
Where are you hunting Deer?

Here in Florida, they are barely larger that our big dogs

Up North, they grow to considerably larger proportions

I am in a agreement with using a JSP and 50 - 75 yards is your friend

However, I usually use the Remington 180 SJHP over a LARGE charge of H110 . . . . Once those have faded away, I will probably switch to the Winchester 158 JHPs
Northeast KS/Northwestern MO. Bigger than big dogs but not gigantic. I do have bigger calibers but thought in heavy timber and short range the .357 would be ideal.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-04-2020, 03:49 PM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Illinois near STL
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 343
Liked 1,326 Times in 559 Posts
Default

I use cast in both 357 and 44 magnum. You have to be careful. I've had them penetrate, then a layer of tissue will shift and cover the holes and there won't be a blood trail. Wish I could get them to expand. I've thought about getting a box of hollowpoint slugs just for deer hunting. I haven't lost a deer yet but it could happen.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-04-2020, 04:28 PM
double-dipper's Avatar
double-dipper double-dipper is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kansas
Posts: 382
Likes: 902
Liked 590 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Kid44, I have killed close to 100 deer in my life. most of them with a rifle probably 20 or so with a bow a few with black powder and a few with a shotgun sabot. Got one with the bumper on my Buick on the way home one night. I took up handgun hunting for deer about three years ago with a 629 8 3/8" JSP are what you want to shoot. Look at the Hornaday LeverEvolution FTX 140 gr.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-04-2020, 04:33 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 981
Likes: 612
Liked 635 Times in 315 Posts
Default

If they’re smaller Whitetail, a Rem/Fed/Rem 158 gr JSP are plenty but limit your shots to bow range, 40 yds or less in the woods.

Personally, I prefer hard cast SWC’s with a large meplat or even a SWC HP (Lyman 358439) pushed to 1,200 FPS. The SWCs will give you some insurance in case you hit shoulder, these will plow through with more than adequate wound channels.

Last edited by 38SPL HV; 06-04-2020 at 04:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-04-2020, 04:38 PM
38SPL HV 38SPL HV is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Northern Nevada
Posts: 981
Likes: 612
Liked 635 Times in 315 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
I use cast in both 357 and 44 magnum. You have to be careful. I've had them penetrate, then a layer of tissue will shift and cover the holes and there won't be a blood trail. Wish I could get them to expand. I've thought about getting a box of hollowpoint slugs just for deer hunting. I haven't lost a deer yet but it could happen.
Try Lyman 358439, hollow point version of the 358429 SWC...10 BNH hardness will be adequate and will give good penetration but will expand a bit particularly if you hit shoulder. GT bullets sells a version of this bullet...over 13.0 grs 2400 will give you a very effective Whitetail load. I still prefer a SWC with a large meplat.

Last edited by 38SPL HV; 06-04-2020 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-04-2020, 08:51 PM
Groo01's Avatar
Groo01 Groo01 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 788
Liked 686 Times in 415 Posts
Default

Groo here
Depends on where you hit them.....
I aim for the "Basket Ball" [the hart lung area...]
As this could involve bone [rib,shoulder or breast ]
I use a hard cast flat nose at 158 or heaver to be sure of getting to the good stuff.
Dad used Leverevolution from a 5in.
Even with a 357 the range limit is set by how far you can hit, not the gun.
With the correct sight I would have no problems with a 100yd or 150 yd
shot with hard cast from a rifle.
Pistol shots are shorter only because of "hitablity"
Just cant see that well anymore.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 06-05-2020, 12:33 AM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 2,898
Liked 761 Times in 388 Posts
Default

I use either a 6.5" RBH or an Encore 20" in 357 mag . The Encore I shoot 180's either the Rem SJHP or a LBT 180 WFNGC ( ACWW + 2% tin cut with 40% pure ) . Cast for hogs , JHP for deer . Same in the Ruger only I use a 158 JHP as I can push them 300 fps faster than a 180 . Again LBT cast for the hogs . A 180 @ 1200 vs a 180 @ 1800 is why I prefer a rifle in 357 mag . As stated above bullet placement is critical & even with a rifle I'll pass on less than optimum shots .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 06-05-2020, 09:11 AM
memtb memtb is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 423
Likes: 181
Liked 545 Times in 239 Posts
Default

I’m a fan of hard cast, though with the smaller dia. bullet....I’d attempt to hit bone and attempt to break-down the structure. The heavy, hard cast also affords you the opportunity of “ranking” shots. The longer bullet path will likely contact more bone, organs, and vessels! memtb
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:52 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,641
Likes: 949
Liked 5,970 Times in 2,925 Posts
Default

The problem with "Frontal, angle shots", is that it ups the odds of hitting a shoulder bone...............
or if you miss bone, there is a chance of penetration to the prime, Hindquarter, with the 2nd best meat on the deer.

Back in the 70's I did this shot on a Antelope with a 130gr SP/BT that should have stopped in the center of the body cavity.
Something happened and it took out a large portion of the rear Ham, which makes up 50% of the meat on this animal.

That was the last time that I ever took that angle shot and now wait for a better angle or shot placement , otherwise I pass on the animal.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 06-05-2020, 01:21 PM
Kid44 Kid44 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Liked 514 Times in 267 Posts
Default Did some research

Quote:
Originally Posted by memtb View Post
I’m a fan of hard cast, though with the smaller dia. bullet....I’d attempt to hit bone and attempt to break-down the structure. The heavy, hard cast also affords you the opportunity of “ranking” shots. The longer bullet path will likely contact more bone, organs, and vessels! memtb
A 180 gr. hard cast from HSM moves along at 1200 fps, a 180 gr hard cast from Buffalo Bore gets down the road at 1400 fps. I have read that the difference of 200 fps you really gain nothing in killing power, all you get is more recoil and muzzle blastand once a certain point is reached a bullet really can't shoot any flatter.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 06-05-2020, 06:19 PM
Neversink n Klapperthal's Avatar
Neversink n Klapperthal Neversink n Klapperthal is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 297
Likes: 675
Liked 466 Times in 168 Posts
Default

hard cast with a heavy dose of 2400
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 06-06-2020, 01:59 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 2,898
Liked 761 Times in 388 Posts
Default

Cast either neck or shoulders , JHP thru the lungs for deer . Hogs forget a JHP , cast or JSP behind the ear or high shoulder / spine . Same old story put a good bullet that's appropriate for game in the right spot you got meat .
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-10-2020, 08:17 PM
geartow geartow is offline
Member
Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP?? Hard cast, JHP or JSP??  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 14
Likes: 9
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

i use a 4inch 357 , 158 grain softpoints. has worked well on the 2 i got with it . a couple yrs ago i grabbed the wrong case from the safe ended up in the woods with a 4inch model 10 38special and 357 ammo. 4hrs from home . after the other 2 guys went into the woods i went to local shop all he had was the 38 special 158 grain hornady custom xtp. i shot a doe at 15 yards it did a flawless job. found partially expanded on off side .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
M&P 2.0C and hard cast ctxcummins Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 9 10-09-2017 12:17 AM
HARD CAST lowe357 Ammo 7 06-30-2014 08:49 PM
HSM .44 Hard Cast SWC silentflyer Reloading 6 01-14-2013 11:24 AM
9mm hard cast Jc85 Reloading 12 02-02-2012 09:57 AM
Hard cast 50's Calaveras Slim Reloading 2 10-03-2009 11:58 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)