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Old 06-28-2020, 07:34 PM
Masterbuck54 Masterbuck54 is offline
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Default 7.62 stripper clip ammo?

OK I picked up this ammo along with many different guns this week....most I'm not familiar with.

So what gun would be shooting this ammo with the stripper clips?

Guys have told me not to shoot it in the C96 Broomhandle I bought.

I'll probably take it to a local gun show and sell should they ever appear again.

Thanks in advance for any info.

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Old 06-28-2020, 07:50 PM
scoobysnacker scoobysnacker is offline
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You likely know more than I do, but wasn't Mauser ammo actually 7.63 in label?

Given the 7.62 and the apparent Eastern European language, I'd lean towards that being 7.62 Tokarev, and maybe for submachineguns. If so, it's supposed to be loaded too hot for the Broomhandle (whereas the other way around was okay for the Tok-designed guns).
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:52 PM
squidsix squidsix is offline
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What does it say on the head stamp?
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:58 PM
scoobysnacker scoobysnacker is offline
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Yeah, DON'T shoot it.

I know this is anecdotal, but I found this online

Quote:
I do not normally tell war stories, but this one really fits in here.
Many moons ago, (almost 30 years worth!) I was at a public shooting range down in the Miami area (yes, Trail Glades).
A fellow was there shooting a nice Broomhandle Mauser using an assortment of surplus military ammo, all of it 7.62x25 not 30 Mauser.
I tried to warn him about the danger of doing so, but in effect he told me to buzz off, and I did.
I short time later there was a louder than normal boom, and then things got interesting.
The bolt stop had sheared off, and the bolt/slide was blown out of the pistol, striking the fellow in the cheek.
He lost a few teeth (I had to remove two broken teeth from his throat so he could breath), had his cheek ripped open and had a chunk of his ear removed. He was rushed off to the hospital, bleeding badly.
Afterwards I helped the range officer collect the guy’s stuff, for storage and the incident investigation.
The ammo he was using in the Broomhandle when it let go was 1953 dated Czech 7.62x25 ammo that was loaded on the 8 round stripper clips, 40 rounds to the box.
That was ammo intended for use with the Czech Scorpion SMG, and that stuff is loaded hot even by CZ52 standards!
Gregg
Czech 7.62 x 25 - General Ammunition Collector Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

That seems to be a website dedicated to collecting cartridges, and there's enough info (a mention of the stripper clip, for example, and the 40 rd box) for me to believe you have the same stuff.

Last edited by scoobysnacker; 06-28-2020 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:08 PM
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It's most likely 7.62x25 Tokarev, which is loaded substantially hotter than 7.63x25 Mauser. Why it has been loaded into stripper clips when both the TT33 and the PPSh-41 loaded from detachable box magazines is anyones guess, maybe they were still using C96s in some areas and in wartimes obviously weren't very concerned about damaging the old C96s they still had in their armories.

Look on the bright side though, now you have an excuse to own a Tokarev Pistol and there are a bunch of them available from various websites for about $220 on average.
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Old 06-28-2020, 08:10 PM
Masterbuck54 Masterbuck54 is offline
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Not going to shoot it...don't worry about that.

Sounds like the same stuff.

Head stamp has the following info:

12 o'clock "2"
3 o'clock "52"
6 o'clock "uxq"
9 o'clock "*"

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Old 06-28-2020, 10:36 PM
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Can you show the entire label on the box?
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:13 AM
desi2358 desi2358 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
It's most likely 7.62x25 Tokarev, which is loaded substantially hotter than 7.63x25 Mauser. Why it has been loaded into stripper clips when both the TT33 and the PPSh-41 loaded from detachable box magazines is anyones guess, maybe they were still using C96s in some areas and in wartimes obviously weren't very concerned about damaging the old C96s they still had in their armories.

Look on the bright side though, now you have an excuse to own a Tokarev Pistol and there are a bunch of them available from various websites for about $220 on average.

This Czech 7.62 Tok ammo is loaded on stripper clips because it was intended for rapid refilling of submachine gun mags. Using a bracket on the gun a soldier could use the clips to quickly refill his empty magazines. The same ammo could also be used in the CZ-52 pistol but had to be removed from the clips and loaded one at a time in the single column pistol mags.

This ammo has a reputation for being fairly hot though in my experience with it I felt it really seemed about the same as other 7.62 Tok military ammo I had shot. At one time there was a lot of it imported and it still shows up from time to time. It does have a steel jacketed bullet so extensive use might be rough on the bore. Imports stopped some time ago as some of it also had an actual steel core as well so it fell under the "Armor Piercing Ammo" regs.

One final note: I had a bunch of the clips left over. They will not fit an M96 Mauser (shaped wrong for the clip guides) but ended up selling them to a guy for his 1912 Styer. He said they worked in it as a substitute for the hard to find 9mm Styer mags since they would fit the clip guides of that pistol.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:12 PM
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Default From the label

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterbuck54 View Post
OK I picked up this ammo along with many different guns this week....most I'm not familiar with.

So what gun would be shooting this ammo with the stripper clips?

Guys have told me not to shoot it in the C96 Broomhandle I bought.

I'll probably take it to a local gun show and sell should they ever appear again.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Masterbuck54
"aym" Povázské Strojárne Národný Podnik, Povázská Bystrica, Czechoslovakia

Headstamp Codes - International Ammunition Association
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:24 PM
Masterbuck54 Masterbuck54 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
Can you show the entire label on the box?
This is the best I can give you on photos as the labels are torn.

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Old 06-30-2020, 12:28 AM
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I was thinking maybe Serbo-Croation but I have no idea. Somebody somewhere can read it.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:11 AM
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When I was young and didn’t know better I wrecked a new m39 by using ammo for SMG. I wouldn’t trust Com Bloc 7.62 T, it’s hot stuff for what it is.
I would be very careful using any modern ammo in 1st generation pistols.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:51 AM
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Here’s a CZ52 webpage regarding Czech SMG 7.62 Tokarev ammunition and a warning:

7.62x25mm Tokarev Ammunition for the CZ-52
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Old 06-30-2020, 09:01 AM
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As metrotps already said. It's Czech. Probably Czechoslovak when it was made.
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:14 PM
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6 o'clock "uxq"

Right side up is 'bxn'
Czech made by Sellior & Belloit (sp?)

Commonly seen Military Surplus headstamp



The ammo packaged up in those 8rd charger clips are most likely for the Czech made CZ(Vz)26 submachine gun.

IIRC one of the 8rd chargers fits flush into the right side of the foregrip .
When the detachable box magazine (32rd) is empty, a fast partial reload of that mag can be done by by stripping the 8rds into the empty mag box . pushing the mag down over the charger.
Then reinserting the mag back in your SMG. The empty 8rd charger is ejected from the foregrip by itself.

I'm not sure if the chargers can be used separately to load a magazine manually,,
or if you were expected to charge the magazines fully 8rds at a time using the forend loading 'tool'.
I guess it doesn't make any difference does it!

The 8rd chargers also work pretty well in the Steyr Hahn M1912 pistol. I've used them for that. Or just lock the slide back and load them one at a time into the magazine.

No use for the chargers with Tokarev. The ammo might be OK in one,,maybe.
Not in a C96,,or at least my C96..
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Old 06-30-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herky Bird View Post
Here’s a CZ52 webpage regarding Czech SMG 7.62 Tokarev ammunition and a warning:

7.62x25mm Tokarev Ammunition for the CZ-52
The original 7,63x25 Mauser was designed to do around 1400 fps with the 85 gr bullet. That makes the original Sovitet 7,62x25 milder.

Now 1600 plus fps is another ball game alltogether. And I don't think that even the CZ 52 can take many of them without suffering some.

That's machine pistol territory.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:01 AM
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This Ammo was made for the Chech ? CZ 24 / 26 SMG's ? Numbers ? ones with Tube Receiver that take mag in Grip Like UZI , Torkarev Pistols not enough Gun to handle this stuff , CZ 52 use ok to a point , it is Smoking hot Ammunition . . .. . . .
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Old 07-02-2020, 11:41 AM
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A common misconception is that the CZ-52 is more robust/reliable than a TT33 due to it being a more modern design with the roller-locking mechanism of the CZ-52 being essentially a scaled down version of the roller-locking mechanism in rifles of the time, so conventional wisdom would dictate that a scaled down rifle action should be more robust than one designed for pistols.
However, in reality the TT33 has a better track record for longevity because its a simpler yet more robust design with less parts to break down under heavy use and an overall beefier slide and frame. Externally the CZ-52 appears to be a bigger, more robust gun than the TT33, but the roller-lock takes up a lot of space inside the slide and the slide walls are thinner. It's also worth noting that the CZ-52 was actually designed for 9mm Luger, but had to be chambered in the higher pressure 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge because that's what the Combloc Militaries were using at the time.

Also, I've read from a number of more recent sources which assert that the existence of so-called "7.62x25 SMG Loads" is dubious at best, based largely on incomplete, poorly translated documents, and that in reality the fact was that the so-called SMG Loads were just standard pressure loads with specialty down-loaded rounds for pistols.
Evidence also exists to support this as a number of sources have chronographed some of these supposed SMG Loads side-by-side with ordinary Russian milspec loads intended for use in a TT33 Pistol out of both PPSh-43 SMGs and the results were exactly the same with only the ordinary amount of deviation between the two. Also, there is concrete documentation which indicates that fod a time certain nations were using 7.62x25 Tokarev loads which were downloaded to 7.63x25 Mauser specs so that they could be safely fired from older Mauser C96 pistols.
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