I agree that reloading, at least for me, is the safety net. I load every caliber I own except 9mm and .223. Not because I don't have what I need to do it but because it wasn't cost effective. Times have changed for now and I may end up relying on by ability to load 9 and 223. Fortunately I have component for both to a satisfactory level if my normal supply gets low.

We will all have to wait and see how this plays out in the long run.

If S&W model 36's were suddenly going for $1,200 on the used market, how many here would list their 36 for $400?

Over on Bullseye forum, someone pointed out that in California alone, there have been over 1 million new gun owners since the beginning of March and the pandemic. Every every one of them ONLY BOUGHT ONE BOX OF 50, there is 50 million rounds sold in one state in 5 months. So it is not just the horders causing this. Some shops just can't get new replenishment orders in fast enough. So add in all the other first time gun buyers across the country and it is easy to see what might be adding to the problem.

Bob

__________________
Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

Ammo shortage... is there a shortage going on???
As an old boy scout that has seen the ups and downs of this type before, just maybe not in this magnitude, I havent noticed a shortage of any kind since at least pre-sandy hook. Neither am I a hoarder, gouger, etc. I just buy a little when I find a deal and have the funds. It's surprising how it adds up and we're pretty much a family (3 generations worth) of shooters. I've even gave away ammo and/or sold cheap to some less fortunate on certain occasions. Presently, all I have to say is to the first time gun buyers and gun owners with only a box or two of ammo, live and learn.

If you don't like the price, don’t buy it. This is a hobby, not a necessity. Some would consider it a luxury to enjoy our hobby. If you can’t get enough primers or powder because you think the price is too high, how will your life change?

During the 2012 ammo freak out.. I traded $225 my cost ammo, for a LNIB 686-6 4" 7 shot.

He had advertised for the trade. I responded with his request.

As they say, A fool and his money are soon departed.

In this day and age, after the last couple of democratic presidents, if you are desperate for guns and ammo now. It's your own fault. Let the market bear.

I just picked up 100 rounds of 9mm and 100 rounds of 22LR, not because I needed to, but because it was there and at a price I'm willing to pay.

My ammo needs have been covered and will stay that way.

Absolutely not, it's indefensibly immoral to take advantage of people during a crisis just because they'll pay extra out of fear or desperation. PERIOD.

I know that there are misguided or otherwise shamelessly immoral people who will advocate for such blatant displays of corporate greed by attempting to write it off as "just good business" or attempting to call their loyalty to the nation into question because "That's just how capitalism works and America is a capitalist society" but I don't agree with that nonsense, nor do I have any obligation to as a free American. Heck even if it were entirely true and it was written in the US Constitution that money is more important than people so you're encouraged to rip off people for financial gain especially during a crisis, I am a man of faith first, a patriot second. Fortunately though, it is not at all encouraged in the US Constitution to do any such thing, nor do I recall any of the founding fathers advocating for any such immoral behavior, so it's an erroneous opinion based on the raving of corporate apologists/spin-doctors to escape responsibility.

__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

It couldn’t be any more simple, buy it or move on.

Did anyone offer ammo sellers more when prices were plummeting?

__________________
Sure you did

Let’s put this into proper perspective. Rising prices for gun powder, primers, ammunition, etc., is NOT a crisis! It’s an inconvenience. People around the world falling ill and dying from an incurable disease is a crisis.

There is no morality, or responsibility associated with the pricing of reloading components. If all of these items become too expensive for your means, or unavailable, how much would your life be affected? You may not have as much fun, or may have to find another hobby, but you’d be just fine. It’s not like some venture capitalist bought out the company that manufactures the medication millions of people rely on to live, then jacked up the price by 2000%. THAT is where morality and responsibility are involved. THAT is a crisis.

Question: By some stroke of luck, your house was now in a high demand location, much different than when you originally bought it 10-15 years ago. People were bidding far over listed sales prices to lock in houses in your neighborhood because they wanted to be there so badly. So, you decide it’s time to downsize. Due to moral considerations, are you going to offer your house for what you paid for it 10-15 years ago, or sell it at the current values?

If you consider the current price and availability of reloading supplies a crisis, you are living quite the charmed life.

Get a grip!

You mean, “a fool and his 686...“

I made a similar buy just months ago for my 629-1...not quite as good as yours, but I’m happy.

But in line with some of the opinions expressed under this topic, you would be greedy, immoral, and irresponsible if you were to turn around and sell that revolver for much more than you paid for it.

I have at least 5k rounds of everything I shoot plus I reload 44 special, 32 long, magnum and 327 , 38 and 357

Buy it cheap and stack it deep.

I agree with IAhunter, I keep an eye on who is raising prices during this China flue, and when it is over I won't buy from those dealers anymore.

__________________
Kevin in Oregon

100% agree.

__________________
Μολὼν λαβέ
NRA Life Member

*sighs* I really hate it when I have to explain the blatantly obvious like this, but it seems like no matter how hard I try, someone inevitably misunderstands what I'm saying in the worst possible way.

I thought it was pretty clear that the "crisis" I was referring to was the COVID-19 Pandemic, but apparently that flew right over your heads.

Considering that many people are buying ammo for Self-Defense against rioters and are clearly doing so fuelled by fear for their lives, I completely disagree.

By changing more, they're taking advantage of people in a state of panic. Justify it however you like, but that's just wrong.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. Nobody is panic-buying houses as far as I know and selling a house at market value isn't the same thing as jacking up the prices of ammunition to take advantage of a panic.

Once again, that is not what I was saying, never was, and I don't believe that you even legitimately believe that is what I was saying.

Nice try though.

__________________
Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Thanks for clarifying. Your follow up makes a bit more sense than your original post.

Outstanding response

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Back when 22's were in short supply I watched a guy at a gunshow pay $75 for a Federal bulk box 525 count. I seriously considered going home and getting my stash lol. Caveat Emptor applies here I think.

__________________
Randy

We live in the era of the gouge. Personally, I despise gouging..but what can you do?

I will say there's a huge difference between the market permanently going up on an item vs quick panic gouging, just thought I'd throw that out there.

The jerk asking $100 for a $20 box of ammo is certainly no surprise, it's the moron willing to pay that price that I don't get. Like people keep saying, having been through a ton of these, I just don't get why people are so caught off guard by any of this. This keeps happening, buy low when it's available and you'll never have this issue, period.

My only real problem is people gouging for essential items, which doesn't involve ammo. This recent "panic" where people were snatching up all kinds of daily essential items then trying to flip them for massive gains is total garbage. That isn't fair market, it is gouging. You don't need ammo to get by, you do need other essential items.

Its called a “free market”.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

Yesterday I was in Walmart and went by the ammo section. They had 10 bricks of Federal .22 ammo. I said to the clerk “Oh! You have .22? I never see it”. Old man replies “we get it in and people come and buy it all”. I say “I’ll take three”. He responds “that’s why the next guy won’t get any. People buying what they don’t need”.

I’ve had the same comments from him before and yesterday I just wasn’t having it. I politely say” I asked for the ammo, not your opinion, and if I was a hoarder I’d be buying them all. Somebody is gonna buy them, either 5 guys or 10. What difference does it make to you?”

They were $17.47 a box for 325 rounds. Hardly the bargain they once were but I buy when I see them.

I do enjoy how people like to chuck this around.

Using the term "free market" for something that is gouging is a stretch.

Again, no one "needs" ammo. I saw someone do this locally with baby formula, bought up tons of cases, then was gouging for it, that is different.

But people like you enjoy to chick around "Free market", ok.

Again, ammo is no big thing. I'd love to see you justify your "free market" in person if someone buys up something you really need then wants to gouge you for it.

"Free market" is how some people are now paying tens of thousands of dollars a month to take life saving drugs because someone bought the patent.


...but sure, "free market". Ok.

A bit of a stretch, ammo vs life saving drug.
Ammo to plink tin cans vs insulin.
Remember you are not paying to cover the sellers cost. You are paying to pay the cost to replace his stock. Where is he going to get more?
I stand on my statement.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

And I think the term "free market" applied to gouging is a bit of a stretch.

BTW...people don't have "stock", they aren't businesses, they don't pay taxes on profits. They buy everything up at a store, creating an artificial gap in supply, the flip it at an inflated price.

...but again, "free market".

Who are you to decide what a fair price is?
Currently distributors are out of popular firearms and ammo.
How long will your local shop stay open selling cleaning patches and Hoppe’s.
If you don’t like the price don’t buy it.
Quit whining.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

It’s pretty simple if someone buys something it becomes their property to do, (sell/keep), what they want with. You have the final word on buying it, then its your’s to do what you want.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

the dealers have been out of supplies for mts,, they may have to pay a premium for stock

I would not be surprised if the members of this forum have enough ammo stored away to wipe out most small nations

__________________
Forum consigliere

I wish I could give caj's post above about 10 likes

This will be a little long but....
I no longer have a shop like I did for 40 years. I never tried to gouge anyone with prices. In fact I sold stuff in the last few "shortages for lower prices than all the other sellers at the time. But I still have stock. I buy estates and other lots of goods purchased when the price was right, keep what I want and sell the rest to fund my purchases. I know others here have done the same..We are after all quite a bit alike. Heck I just purchased 5m SPPs and 2 M LPPs for 110 bucks. Yeah the price was great as SPPs are selling locally for 40-50 per M. A friend is going to get some SPPs as he has none and he is a friend. He offered me 35 bucks per M., He will get them cheaper than that. But if I bought those primers originally to sell on the reloading market locally. I would have sold them for 35 per M.,.,., Is that price gouging?? Personally I don't feel as it is. I could easily sell them for more. In the last real 22 shortage I had purchased more than 250 boxes of 550 packs at Cabela's...5 boxes each in a 50 cal ammo can. on sale for a very good price...about 10 bucks per box. I intended to sell 'em for 12 bucks and end up with the 50 cal ammo cans as my final profit...even at 12 bucks each it was a profit and then the big crunch came. I saw Rem Thundertu..bolts sell at an auction for 90 dollars a brick of 500. What!!?? and 22 ammo was selling for 50-75 dollars a brick. I ended up selling almost all of that 22 ammo for 35 dollars per box. Gouging?? No I could have gotten more easily. But I considered some of the prices out there as ridiculous. Yep I made a profit but could have made more. Selling what you have for a profit isn't wrong. How many here lose money on the S&Ws they have bought?....not many for sure. So hey...if you think the price is way too high and don't want to spend that much...DON'T DO IT. But don't blame someone else for your lack of foresight!. I'd like to buy another small pocket pistol but darned if I can find one in stock locally. MY lack of foresight!

Another take on this.

What could be wrong about putting a case of ammo on an online auction and letting the market decide?

__________________
Buy American
Vote Responsibly

the ammo makers may have raised the price 5-10%. the end sellers of the ammo are the gougers .remember that when there are truckloads of the stuff and its a race to the bottom price wise.The mail order guys are not your buddy,shop local.

It's legal and should remain so. But I find it somewhat morally reprehensible. A slight increase is one thing, gouging is another. But some businesses may have too in order to survive.

It's not quite like charging $5.00 a gallon for gas or $350 a night for a flop house hotel room when the hurricane hits. But it can have some elements of that.

None. But you're talking bout an item that can only be priced on the open market. There is no MSRP.

Our local guys have zilch. Even if they could get it in, they were notified that prices TO THEM would be a lot more than a 5-10% increase. Or maybe you can get it in NY a lot cheaper.

When it’s over ... If they have the cheapest price, I will.

I’ve always liked the fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper. I’m the ant.

Buy it cheap and stack it deep. That way when this happens, it doesn’t impact me. I just keep plugging away.

Pretty sure me and my brother in law could take France tomorrow if we could get a flight . . .

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have over 2000 rounds of 9 mm full metal jacket that I don’t need. I bought it when I was at or less than $.17 around because at that price I was too lazy to load it even though I have plenty of components. Checking on ammo seek I see the minimum price of 9 mm full metal jacket is about $.54 plus shipping. The 12.99 a box stuff at bass pro and Cabela’s is never in stock.
There’s very little FMJ on arms list all over Pennsylvania with most hollowpoint ammunition going for 80 or $.90 around. One guy in Allentown is selling steel case 9 mm full metal jacket for $.80 around.
I assume that I could sell my stash pretty easily on arms list for $.50 a round.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is France a small nation? Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in the HVAC business. Right now, a popular supplier is saying 60-90 days to catch up on production due to Covid-19. I'm hoping it is the same way with ammunition.

Me too and I'm also hoping for Alessandra Ambrosio to call me. Larry

I wasn't familiar with Alessandra Ambrosio so I googled her. If she calls, are you going to ask her to go shoot at the range with you? Might be a good idea for a first date.

The odds of that fantasy happening is the same odds as the ammo manufactures catching up in 60-90 days but it they both happen I'm going to buy a couple of lottery tickets. Larry

Car dealerships are cleaned out of new vehicles which I happen to be shopping for, salesman's says maybe year end till they build back inventory. As said above, building materials like lumber are short too.
So what am I shooting at the moment?
22 rimfire - have a lot of that.
Magnum handguns - self rationing, 2 cylinders and I'm done.
Shotshells - skeet and trap time. Dual purpose - it's a ton of fun and practice on moving targets.

You know...I'm gonna come out and say the wording of this one is a bit one sided.

How about an option for

"I believe there is a difference between selling at market value and gouging during a panic."

Or...

"Fair market value and panic driven prices aren't the same thing"

A $20 item, when the market is dry, may go up 50% or heck, even 100%. A 1500% mark? That's what we call gouging, boys and girls. Thankfully, ammo isn't like gas, I'm sure you'd all be enjoying a "free market" with your $793 fill-up.

In the end, this lands up effecting us all. Looking at ammo or reloading supplies, prices never come back down fully. Even adjusting for inflation, every stupid panic has driven the prices up just that much more, cent by cent.


Either way...this is an old and exhausting conversation to have.

Check out what Cheaper Than Dirt is doing...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The market will eventually correct itself. Government intervention to keep prices of anything artificially low either kills off production, or allows hoarders to hoard more, and speculators with lots of liquid cash to buy up everything they see. The consumer does his part to restore equilibrium by refusing to buy at inflated prices. I understand if someone needs a box of hollow points for his home defense weapon but now is not the time to fill up your basement shelves. I personally have enough contingency ammo to last through an apocalypse, but I will suspend recreational shooting if necessary before I pay a 2x or 5x or 10x markup on ammo.

Made a similar post in a similar thread in the Lounge.

You bought your house 30 years ago for $70,000. Now houses in your neighborhood are selling for $250,000, but you should only sell your house for $70,000 because otherwise you'd be price gouging. Nah.

__________________
Vegan by proxy.

Just as a point of reference the original poll/post was asking about retailers.

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

I think it’s hard for anyone who hasn’t been in the business to understand the ins and outs of what’s going on in the background. How many of y’all know what the average margin on a gun is? When everything is plentiful, you struggle your backside off to keep your shop going especially with all the internet sales competition and the lack of customer loyalty and.... everyone wants something for nothing. I tried doing what some commenters here would call “the right thing to do” when things were hard to get and realized later I had played the fool! Didn’t gain one ounce of loyalty or get any farther ahead and exerted tons of energy trying to get my hands on ridiculously hard to get product. I remember one distributor offering a single brick of .22LR for every $1K spent. So.... I say get what you can while you can because there’s more lean times in the gun business than there will EVER BE good times. Make hay while the sun’s shining.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Even when they bought it cheap I reload for much less than their cheap ammo and I have enough components to make 5000 more rounds whenever the mood strikes. And it all fits in a small cabinet. I don’t have to jam them into closets.