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View Poll Results: How do you feel about retailers charging high prices for ammo post-covid
Profit is good -- Let the market decide 145 61.70%
It is almost immoral to significantly raise prices when market is very tight 33 14.04%
Seller's should be prohibited from making extra profit when market is tight 16 6.81%
Who cares -- I'm too busy shooting what I bought when ammo was cheap 41 17.45%
Voters: 235. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-27-2020, 11:13 PM
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You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo? You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo? You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo? You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo? You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo?  
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Default You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo?

My unscientific market research shows the market price for 5.56 ammunition post-Covid is up by about double.

To me, as long as there is no collusion in restraint of trade, I am OK with sellers charging whatever they can get for what they are selling. Yes, that can lead to having to pay $20 for a box of 20 rounds. But nobody is forcing anyone to buy a case at $1.00/round.

IMHO $20 for a 20 round box of 5.56 is a small price to pay for the ability to exercise the right to keep and bear arms.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bushmaster1313 View Post
To me, as long as there is no collusion in restraint of trade, I am OK with sellers charging whatever they can get for what they are selling.
To me, it is a hobby,, I have enough .223,, for the need,,

SO, I simply switch to cheap shooting,,
I am just now receiving the last of what I need so that I can load and shoot 35 Remington in a Contender barrel.

I purchased the 35 Remington barrel to get a scope I wanted (eBay auction) , but, I never shot the 35 Remington..

a box of brass, a set of dies,, I will use some .357 Magnum bullets I have,,
I will be shooting something "new" to me this weekend!!

Lets have fun,, and enjoy ourselves ,, a little,,,
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:45 PM
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I have so much ammunition I don't even think about it.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:02 AM
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A little increase is OK, but I won't purchase ammo in the future from companies that gouge during shortages.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:10 AM
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When I saw the title of your post, all my eye caught was "charging", "bear", and "ammo". For a moment I was excited!

Chalk me up to "Who cares..." I have enough ammo and components to last the rest of my life. I'll still buy, when I see a decent deal, but I don't need to.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:24 AM
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Yup, Iím fine with it.

The price is always what the market will bear, if itís not selling then the price will come down.

Those that like to call it ďgougingĒ are inevitably the ones that failed to plan ahead and now pay the (literal) price for their lack of forethought.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:32 AM
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Let the market decide. Would rather see some ammo available to me on the shelf at a higher price than empty shelves with a lower price tag.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:47 AM
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Default One more option....

I reload almost everything I shoot.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:44 AM
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High prices are the best way to end a panic based ammo shortage.

If the price stays the same many people will correctly decide there is no downside to cleaning out the store they buy ammo from. If the price is double what they will be paying 12 months from now they might leave some on the shelves for those that didn't plan ahead and really, really need just a box or two.

I particularly feel this way about panic shortages of other commodities like TP and gas. Several years ago a hurricane hit the gulf and there were rumors of supply disruption that led to self fulfilling prophesy of a gas shortage. Many people went out and filled their vehicles up which caused stations to run dry which led more people to buy gas anytime they saw it. It went on for a few weeks due to anti-gouging laws. If the stations had been allowed to jack up prices enough to discourage people from cleaning them out it would have been over in a day and prices would have quickly feel back to normal. Same for TP.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:29 AM
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It is amoral to gouge on prices of necessary life supporting items like food, water and fuel for heating and cooking. Luxuries even the ones we sometimes think of as rights are a different thing. There is also the milk of human kindness factor. All just my opinion but you asked.........
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:52 AM
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I think that the market should dictated prices re: ammo and reloading components. I also think that our foresight and planning can control that market to some degree. Above all, personal discipline, in my humble opinion, is the controlling factor in all things.....especially 'the ammo/component market'. Oh yeah, and I still think the .22 shortage was FAKE...
IMHO as always... :-)
J.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:07 AM
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OK or not?, People who have not prepared have know choice or say in the matter.
One of my most hated expressions:


"It is what it is"
I did not vote in the poll
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:09 AM
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Not to be overly critical but isn't this a bit of a silly question? The market price is the market price regardless of what drives it ... up or down.

If you want something and you think the price point is too high, for any reason, then simply walk away.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:24 AM
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I didn't vote, because the response could be misconstrued.

It doesn't matter if the commodity that is offered is ammo or milk, anything beyond letting the market decide requires a degree of government intervention, and our economy has been built on the principles of free enterprise.

Once the government steps in and dictates how much profit an entrepreneur can make, there is trouble on the horizon. Intervention when it comes to gouging is different than regulating profit. At the start of the pandemic, how many people saw the government step in and set the price on toilet paper, which appeared to be in short supply?
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:36 AM
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I hope all these people who think its ok to charge what the market will bear for ammo agree with doing the same when there's a gas, food or even water shortage in the future.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:40 AM
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Default If the price is too high...

or the commercial seller is price gouging...DON'T BUY FROM THEM...Like the thread about cheaper than dirt. If the price is just higher...Sorry but it is your own fault for not stocking up when prices were normal. If ya need it and don't have it...well ya gotta do what ya gotta do
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:44 AM
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^^^^^^ this... well said
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:46 AM
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If there was an infinite supply of ammo, there'd be no reason to raise prices. But ammo supplies are fixed, or reduced, so if sellers don't find a way of controlling demand, they will have none left to sell. Then we'd all pitch and moan about that instead.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:48 AM
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If you want to live in a capitalist society with a free market, they have the right do charge what they want and you have the right to buy it or not. Just make a list of who is doing it and remember who it was when there is the next glut.

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Old 07-28-2020, 10:23 AM
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Ammo line to the right, toilet paper to the left.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:46 AM
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A retailer must constantly monitor his wholesale sources and market prices. When the market tightens up there will be a spike in wholesale prices, which must translate to a rise in retail prices; the only alternative being zero supply.

A retailer with a stock of .223 Rem purchased at $3.50 per box and selling for $4.99 per box notices that his suppliers have raised the wholesale price to $5.00 per box. This tells him that he cannot replace his inventory for the current retail price, so why would he continue selling for $4.99 per box? Selling what you can't get for less than replacement cost is not a part of any good business plan.

When the market eventually corrects, the same retailer may have a shelf full of .223 that cost him $5.00 per box during the tight market, but he is competing against others selling the same thing for $4.50. He can sit on that ammo forever, or he can sell it at a loss and restock with fresh product at lower cost. Not unusual in the business.

There is probably some price gouging happening during these market swings, but I doubt much of it happens at the retail level. The real gouging is done by individuals who stock up during easy times, then cash in during tough times. Even then, the "gouger" knows that he is tying up his cash for extended and unknown periods of time in hopes of making a future profit (certainly no guarantees).

A few years ago a friend mentioned that he was unable to find any 9mm ammo for range use. At the time I had a case (1000 rounds) that I had purchased for about $0.12 per round and set aside. My friend offered to pay me $15.00 per box ($0.30 per round) if I would sell him a few boxes. I let him have half of the case (500 rounds) for $150.00, recovering my cost of $120.00 for the full case and leaving me with 500 rounds in reserve at no cost (and $30.00 pocket money).

Does this make me a gouger? I thought I was doing a favor for a friend that also benefited me at the time. Walmart was selling WWB or Rem-UMC 9mm for $15.97 per box, but had none on the shelves.

I currently have several boxes of factory .300 Savage ammo that came to me from an estate. Looking at Midway and on GunBroker I see that these are selling for ~$35.00 per box. The boxes I have still show the K-Mart price tags at $4.37 each. What is the fair market value now? What will these be worth to a guy going hunting in November but can't find any ammo for his old Savage rifle?

The market will always be the market. Either you go with it or you can sit around and complain about it. Personally, I took up ammo reloading many years ago so I am not totally dependent on the market.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:55 AM
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Knowing how crazy the supply chain is because of the Kung Flu and political turmoil, I will buy as long as the price seems appropriate for the conditions. We need our industry to survive.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:57 AM
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Yes, I am okay if they raise the prices. If a retailer raises the price and people don't buy it then they will have to lower it. They also risk alienating their customers if they raise the prices unnecessarily. If the prices are too low then people will buy more than they need and hoard the ammo. Also possible that if the price is high that people with money will do the same but, that is life.
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:02 AM
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Without knowing the businesses cost structure (rent, electric, insurance, labor, etc) and the cost of replacing the ammo over time, it is hard to judge "gouging". Consider it a learning moment. Be prepared. Buy when the prices are low. Ammo keeps well. I imagine there are people with cases of .22lr and 9mm bought last time the prices went up, getting ready to sell off some excess overstock.

Noting the empty shelves and strange brand names showing up, it appears that the retailers are having problems getting it and are probably paying premium prices. That and the tendency of hoarders to clear the shelves of what they want means that price competition seems out of date. There is lots of ammo in the country. Most of it would seem to be in closets and basements, along with all the toilet paper.
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:09 AM
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Can be a fine line between what the market will bear and gouging. Personally, I despise gouging and will buy elsewhere. I will also never forget those folks and never buy from them again. Smart Capitalists will win over most customers most of the time.
Well what if everyone is charging crazy high prices (what the market will bear) to make the quick buck. The ones that keep fair prices will be remembered. Smart.

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Old 07-28-2020, 11:11 AM
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I would not be surprised if the members of this forum have enough ammo stored away to wipe out any shortage of any caliber. Most people don’t store huge quantities of ammunition.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:14 PM
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It's like any other commodity. Buy when it is affordable and sell (or hold) when it is high. Gold is the same way right now.

This is the fourth ammo/component shortage in the last 20 years. It shouldn't have surprised anyone. But, I thought it would be closer to the election.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:18 PM
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The difference between ammo and other supplies like food and water is long term storage. Keeping a one year supply of ammo is easy. Keeping a 10 year supply of ammo requires some dedication and compromise around the house, but is doable.


Storing more than a few weeks worth of water is nearly impossible.


We might think of ammo as a consumable, but the ability to store it makes it behave much more like a durable good, which means that supply and demand pressures will naturally smooth out over time, so I really don't see a problem with letting the market decide.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:40 PM
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If retailers adjusted the price upwards as demand kicked up the shelves wouldn't be bare today. Once panic buying sets in and people start to hoard it's just a downward spiral.

As new stock gets put out, people will buy it all up in fear that they won't be able to find any tomorrow. People will buy double, triple, quadruple or more than what they would otherwise buy because of this fear. Once people see those bare shelves it sticks with them for a while and price becomes irrelevant. People are buying 500 rounds of 9mm for $200 today and those same people wouldn't have bought 1,000 rounds of the same ammo for $180 5 months ago.

I was at Sportsman's Warehouse a couple of months ago and noticed the primers selection was picked over and the prices were $22 to $25 per brick of primers. I picked up 6 bricks because I knew prices like that wouldn't be around for long. There was a sign at the register mentioning that there was a limit of 1,000 primers per person. I have no idea what they were thinking selling at a 30% discount and limiting to 1 brick... If people are panic buying you don't drop the prices by 30%.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:59 PM
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OP here

Back in January/February, seeing that prices were relatively good and New Jersey was likely to legislate away the ability to make convenient and economical online purchases, I obtained what I considered for me to be a good sized long term amount of ammunition in all the calibers I shoot.

I have plenty. But I am kicking myself (don't worry, not too hard or too often) for not getting twice as much.
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:00 PM
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When I had my shop I always set a percentage profit on what I had in stock. If the price went up before I had to restock I didn't raise my price...I just ordered at the current wholesale and raised my prices on the new order appropriately. I sold an awful lot of reloading stuff. As much as 8 tons of shot every 10 days...so prices didn't fluctuate all that much for me. I always posted my prices and noted rises in cost. My customers accepted the new costs. But we didn't have runs on the market like we do npow except occasionally....for short periods. I didn't make a lot of money as my margins were slim...but I provided a service to a lot of people and they in turned provided me with a small profit. My profit margins were small but my fixed costs were low also
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by moosedog View Post
I hope all these people who think its ok to charge what the market will bear for ammo agree with doing the same when there's a gas, food or even water shortage in the future.
I hope you are OK with hoarders buying up all of those products they can and leaving the shelves empty for everyone else, no matter how much they need just enough to get by while the hoarders sit on their mountain of food, water and TP.

The only 2 ways to stop hoarding is rationing or high prices. For something like food or water government imposed rationing would be my preference. But for everything I else I would rather let the market work it out.
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:48 PM
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Default You okay with charging what market will bear for ammo?

Yep I have ammo for sale and you have money to buy, I set my price, up to you to buy or not.

I did it with .22lr a few years back.

I donít believe itís the antís responsibility to supply the grasshopper unless he chooses to.


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Old 07-28-2020, 03:15 PM
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Just found my receipt.
Yesterday at Walmart paid $17.37 for 333 Round Box Winchester.
And I’m not selling!
I Will gift ammo to my Son and SIL.
They are working!
They ain’t got time to lurk around and look into ammo cases!
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:27 PM
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I'm OK with them charging it. I'm not OK with me paying it. I'm one of those guys who reloads and buys ammo when supplies are plentiful. Off to the range...
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Old 07-28-2020, 03:28 PM
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Here's what I can tell you .. a shop about 30 miles from me ("local", in my neck of the woods) got some 22 in during the supposed shortage. They charged about the usual price for it. I think they might have limited buyers to a certain generous amount.

When I need anything gun related and I'm buying local, they're my first stop.

It cuts both ways.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:36 PM
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My father-in-law finally got a gun at the age of 76. I've been telling him to for years, and the current climate finally got him off the couch. But he couldn't find ammo for it. I finally had to point him to online sources and found 115 Blazer Brass for $465 a case!. Throw in tax and that's $500 for 1000 rounds. 50 cents for paper punching range ammo. When I was telling him about it, the site went from 32 in stock, to 27, to 21 in the five minutes we chatted. He bought it.

Less than a year ago some people on here were saying how it's stupid to reload 9MM since it's so cheap. Who's laughing now?
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:11 PM
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I was in our local shop yesterday and they received some 5.56 62 grain penetrator cases the evening before. Price to the shop had almost doubled from the distributor. Shop priced it at $565 per 1,000. Sold all of it the following day and I listened to one guy thanking them for not gouging him.
If I took 9mm ammo to a gun show today and advertised at $15 per 50, it would be gone at table setup time and sold when the show opened at 20 or more.
Virus and protests notwithstanding, I think you can count on every 4 years there being a run on guns and ammo.
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:47 PM
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I was in our local shop yesterday and they received some 5.56 62 grain penetrator cases the evening before. Price to the shop had almost doubled from the distributor. Shop priced it at $565 per 1,000. Sold all of it the following day and I listened to one guy thanking them for not gouging him.
If I took 9mm ammo to a gun show today and advertised at $15 per 50, it would be gone at table setup time and sold when the show opened at 20 or more.
Virus and protests notwithstanding, I think you can count on every 4 years there being a run on guns and ammo.
Hmmm, I wonder why every 4 years..........? NOT talking politics here, but smithy is right as rain. Some of us (most of us here) are not effected however. The ole Boy Scout motto has stuck with me for over a half century,........... "Be Prepared ".
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:57 PM
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I haven't seen to much of a jump in price where I get ammo.
I only get 9mm, and in April, I paid $10.99 for a box of 50 count
Fiocchi, now the price is $13.99 a box. The cheapest 9mm i saw was Wolf at $9.99 a box and i've been told not to touch steel case shells.
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:29 PM
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I just bought my first .223 a few weeks ago. Ammo at the gun shop I bought it from is 12.00 per 20 round box of Norma Tactical. I also haven't bought any 9MM in many years since I got rid of my last one. My wife bought one and at the same shop Sellier & Bellot hardball is 12.00 per box of 50. The .223 seems kind of high but the 9MM not so much.
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Old 08-04-2020, 03:01 PM
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To those who think governmental regulation should apply to this discussion need to remember that once the government gets a toe hold on something they always expand that hold and never look back. Bad road to go down. The ups and downs of the market should be left between the seller and the buyer...I don't want the government involved.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
My father-in-law finally got a gun at the age of 76. I've been telling him to for years, and the current climate finally got him off the couch. But he couldn't find ammo for it. I finally had to point him to online sources and found 115 Blazer Brass for $465 a case!. Throw in tax and that's $500 for 1000 rounds. 50 cents for paper punching range ammo. When I was telling him about it, the site went from 32 in stock, to 27, to 21 in the five minutes we chatted. He bought it.

Less than a year ago some people on here were saying how it's stupid to reload 9MM since it's so cheap. Who's laughing now?
The same people. Because they bought plenty when it was cheap.
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:00 PM
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I have a certain level that I don't go below. Like filling up a gas tank at 1/4. I resupply when I can, because sometimes I can't. I call it my "Things have gotten ugly" stash.

I do share with others, especially when we are shooting together. I'm just that way.

I refuse to own a firearm without ammo to use it. I even have a box of .32 S&W short for my grandmother's emergency gun in a book. If I need that one, I hope i'm at arms length. Beating someone with it would be just as effective.
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:39 PM
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I didn't vote on this, because I've got mixed feelings on the matter.

I completely respect the rights of sellers to make money.
I disrespect the sellers who are charging 2x what others do.

You often find people coming into these threads with "should have been prepared - like ME" comments. That's all fine and dandy; but what about:
  • New, first-time buyers?
  • Buyers of new/different calibers?
  • People on limited income?
There's just quite a few "exceptions" out there. If you didn't have a gun, you had no reason for 3k of ammo stashed.
If you didn't have an AR, there was not reason to stock up on .223. Etc.
I just bought a couple boxes of 38 Special. 158 gr PPU LRN, $16/50.
I bought 2 boxes because the place I found them has a stock shipping rate of $20. I didn't buy more, because I DON'T OWN A REVOLVER.
My ex's mother has one, and is on a limited income (retiree). She didn't have any ammo, what little she might have had was lost a few years ago in a bad flood. I don't know if this stuff is any good, and I really don't expect her to go shooting at the range. But she reached out to me for some, because she had none and know I'm "into guns". I paid, and gave her 1 box (will keep the second for awhile, to see if this situation arises with anyone else). It ended up being $52 for 100 rds, after shipping.
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  #46  
Old 08-05-2020, 05:17 AM
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It matters not what we think of the prices being so high - it is what it is! This phenomenon has been going on since the cave man days and will NEVER change!


I think that by now almost everyone who has owned a gun , shoots and has been through this scenario numerous times over the last decade is aware of what happens in a crises. This is no different than, gasoline, liquor, oil, water, masks, etc. when they become an in-demand commodity. I would think (and hope) that pretty much everyone here on this Forum has learned from past experiences and was well equipped and stocked before this crises hit.

For the newbies that have just come aboard, they will have to beg, borrow and pay high prices but I doubt they'll be caught unprepared again.

"Fool me one, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me"!

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Old 08-05-2020, 08:41 AM
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Big difference between Needs & Wants. The followers of PPP are always 1st to complain. I would hope those needing ammo is for recreational purposes.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:21 AM
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Big difference between Needs & Wants. The followers of PPP are always 1st to complain. I would hope those needing ammo is for recreational purposes.
I'm sure I'll be embarrassed but what is PPP?
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:25 AM
Drm50 Drm50 is offline
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I'm sure I'll be embarrassed but what is PPP?
pó- poor prep.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:32 AM
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For those that are comfortable with the government setting prices, as opposed to "what the market will bear", how would you react to a 50 round box of 22 Long rifle being priced at $100? As you are well aware, there are many in government that want to take away our guns, and if they can't take the guns, they'd be satisfied with drying up the ammo supplies.

What is currently driving the guns and ammo market is FEAR, two flavors of it. First, there is the segment of society seeing a faction of our government fancying the current conditions in Venezuela, and wanting us to be more like them. Then there is the segment of society that is in fear for their physical safety in light of the rise by unchecked activities of "peaceful protesters" amid the call for reduced police services.

Currently, I am seeing retailers accepting orders for ammunition with projected delivery dates into early 2021. I stopped in the Cabela's in Delaware and the Gander Outdoors in Roanoke over the weekend. I didn't want to get depressed in Cabela's, so I didn't check the ammo isles closely, but I did check out reloading components: a thousand CCI large rifle primers listed for $62, while a box of 500 lead (not coated) bullets was going for $110. When I went into the Gander Outdoors, I went because the website said they had 300 ct Aguila 9mm for $53, meanwhile, all that they had was a few boxes of 32 S&W Longs.

It is my belief, that for many, continuation in the shooting sports until the ammunition supplies return to something close to normal, will be a dependence on reloading!
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