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Old 08-26-2020, 06:27 PM
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Default 460S&W Factory Ammo Pull-downs

Can anyone point me to 460S&W factory ammo pull-down data?
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:36 PM
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What is ‘pull down data’?
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:36 PM
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A 'pull down' is disassembly of a cartridge and measuring bullet weight and powder weight with close up pic of powder to try to determine what powder was used. Pull-downs are done/popular on the 10mm-firearms site.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:46 PM
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I pulled a Hornady 200gr FTX not long ago and the powder looked like H110.
I'll be loading 45ACP and some 460 tonight and will pull another Hornady, weigh the powder, take pics and post.
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Old 08-27-2020, 04:49 AM
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Here ya go.
49gr of powder in the #9152/Hornady lot #3161481..... next to 49gr of H110.
H110 is three years old and the Hornady ammo was purchased two years ago.

I'll do a burn test later and post pics.

Hope that helps.
Check the archives for lotsa info.
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Old 08-27-2020, 09:19 PM
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Thanks for that, Imissedagain. I'm surprised that there's only 49gr H110 in that load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
Here ya go.
49gr of powder in the #9152/Hornady lot #3161481..... next to 49gr of H110.
H110 is three years old and the Hornady ammo was purchased two years ago.

I'll do a burn test later and post pics.

Hope that helps.
Check the archives for lotsa info.
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyvega View Post
Thanks for that, Imissedagain. I'm surprised that there's only 49gr H110 in that load.
It's a hoot in the 3.5".
Only took one round to know the OEMs were not for me and on the second, my cad/cam brain engaged.

A set of stocks with a currently gray area arm brace... held on the shoulder ...might be interesting.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:55 AM
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Yup, that round is a screamer especially in a 3.5 incher!
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Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
It's a hoot in the 3.5".
Only took one round to know the OEMs were not for me and on the second, my cad/cam brain engaged.

A set of stocks with a currently gray area arm brace... held on the shoulder ...might be interesting.
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:15 AM
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Ammo makers do not use canister powders that are available to the public . Powders are formulated for a run of ammo and adjusted for that "Lot" to meet the requirements .
Pulling down a factory load , weighing the powder and identifying the powder by looking at it ... isn't the brighteset way to get safe load data.

If you don't believe me ...ask one of the ammo manufacturers what powder they use ... they can't tell you because it's not available to purchase . I.D.ing powder by looking at it is an iffy proposition at best and a dangerous proposition at worst .

Printed / published load data is still your best and safest bet .

My Dad would tell you " Boy ...Don't be acting the fool ! "
Gary
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:56 AM
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Hornady factory ammo does not use H110 or any canister powder.

They make powder specific for each application as do most other large production munitions manufactures.

It is also not advisable to try to identify powder visually, even with a good microscope.

That said I have measured 49.6 to 50.1 depending on the lot for 200 grain FTX.
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:02 AM
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I don't have a .460, the .454 is more than adequate for this old guy. I have occasionally "pulled-down" a factory cartridge just out of curiosity as to actual bullet and powder weights, and bullet diameter. Referring to loading manuals, I have speculated as what powder and charge weight might produce actual chronographed velocities I have observed. But that's as far as I've been tempted go. I am aware of non-canister powders, and have never been tempted to do any reloading based on the factory charge weight or what the powder looks like.......YMMV
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Old 08-28-2020, 11:50 AM
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Let's be clear on the matter. No one has said that what was pulled down is H110. No one has said that they were going to use that pull down info as gospel loading of cannister powder.
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:20 PM
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The first thing I noticed about the Hornady powder was it had a slightly darker tint to it, than the H110, which is not as noticeable in the pic.
Never guess with powders that they are exactly the same by looking... same when meeting age appropriate twins.... their Dad had a P51. Strictly platonic.
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Old 08-28-2020, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Ammo makers do not use canister powders that are available to the public . Powders are formulated for a run of ammo and adjusted for that "Lot" to meet the requirements .
Pulling down a factory load , weighing the powder and identifying the powder by looking at it ... isn't the brighteset way to get safe load data.

If you don't believe me ...ask one of the ammo manufacturers what powder they use ... they can't tell you because it's not available to purchase . I.D.ing powder by looking at it is an iffy proposition at best and a dangerous proposition at worst .

Printed / published load data is still your best and safest bet .

My Dad would tell you " Boy ...Don't be acting the fool ! "
Gary

I've been waiting for a post like this one which I believe is spot on!
Why waste an expensive piece of ammo to do a pull down and then 'guess' what powder is used. A fools errand IMO!!
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 505Gibbs View Post
I've been waiting for a post like this one which I believe is spot on!
Why waste an expensive piece of ammo to do a pull down and then 'guess' what powder is used. A fools errand IMO!!
Much cheaper to pull and get a look at the bullet than buy a
box that will never be used by me.

Pic of 200 gr FTX on the left followed by:
200gr XPB
230 gr TCBB Penn PC coated.... will run in my 1911s as well.
300 gr TCBB-SSK Penn PC coated
275 gr XPB

I have some of Penns 255s and 340s in load development as well.

I'll post the velocity specs on the Penns, as discussed with Robert, in another thread.... but the 230gr TCBBs are rated for 1200-1300 FPS and I'm curious as to accuracy with TrailBoss or another powder.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:47 AM
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One can learn from such a "fool's errand" such as this interesting observation. The lot variation in factory ammo. Much more interesting and maybe even useful information can be mined from a larger sampling of various ammo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
That said I have measured 49.6 to 50.1 depending on the lot for 200 grain FTX.

Here's another good reason to pull down factory ammo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
Much cheaper to pull and get a look at the bullet than buy a
box that will never be used by me. .
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Last edited by sparkyvega; 08-29-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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