I no longer write about guns, but a few firms still send me press releases. Got one from Federal saying they have a new 10mm with 200 grain bullet at 1200 FPS.
Designed expressly for hunting, it uses their Fusion bullet.

Thought you fellows might like to know.

They said it's shipping now. No, I don't know if it was tested on charging bears...

Is it about $5 a round?

No, the 20 round box has an MSRP of $32.99
Like many modern projectiles this has a pre-scored jacket for expansion and a bonded core for weight retention.

F10FS1 is their product code for the new offering.

BTW, that 1200 FPS is from a 6" test barrel, so our 1911s and Glocks will be slightly slower.

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"Acta non verba"

That's more expensive than Underwood 200gr XTPs which is a superior product IMO

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Obviously we do not know how much it is going to really cost . . . . Nobody pays MSRP for their ammunition

But, tell us the truth, what makes the Underwood product a superior hunting round over this NEW Fusion offering?

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"Acta non verba"

In a field of watered own 10mm loads it's nice to see a big name full power version.

Yep, also in the ballpark with BB.

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213th FBINA

Underwood is loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs, not this watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case we see from all the major ammo makers. As for the XTP bullet, it's a legendary bullet design with excellent penetration and expansion, and one of the better high velocity pistol bullets. Very nice weight retention.

I carry Underwood XTPs in all my 10mms.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

I just want to make sure that I understand your viewpoint

You care calling Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load at 1250 FPS a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case"

However you are calling Underwood's 200 grain XTP at 1250 FPS "loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs"

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"Acta non verba"

Any 200gr JHP traveling 1200+ fps is a force to be reckoned with.

I have a 200gr "unknown" JHP that I have a load for that sends it downrange at 1150 fps. I can push it faster but it groups better at this speed with the powder I am using.

I run 200gr Underwood hard cast in the 1026 when I trex threw the Smokies. These have rather peaked my interest, and seem rather impressive... I mostly run 180gr handloads, but have wanted to run some 200grs as of recent.

Wonder how these would run in a 1013....

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This is the way....

Not a Glock 40MOS, they have a 6" barrel. Great hog pistol with a red dot.

I have a box of XTP loads for my 10MM,,
and I have a box of "Black Talons" 10MM,,

Do I need these Fusion rounds,, also?

Hmmm. I forgot about the Black Talons... How fast are they moving ? Does anybody know ? I don't think Winchester put the info on the box?

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This is the way....

I do not recall Winchester's claims for the product . . . However I did chronograph some out of my Delta Gold Cup at just a tad under 1000 FPS.

Even though the projectiles weighed 200 grains, I would have liked to have seen it moving faster.

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"Acta non verba"

So a commercial ammo manufacturer is finally loading a full-power 10mm load, huh?

Hopefully others will follow suit. I actually lost all interest in 10mm Auto after I learned that pretty much only specialty ammo made by brands like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Cor-Bon actually loaded their 10mm ammo any hotter than .40 S&W, with everything else being the old "FBI Loads" which are essentially just .40 S&W in a longer case, with any difference in performance being negligible, like 25-50fps faster than the equivalent .40 S&W load.

If more ammo manufacturers start loading 10mm Auto seriously, then I can see getting a 10mm Pistol in my future.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

What is your 10mm's mission?
Target, brown bears, mountain lions. evil bipeds, etc.?
We'll go from there.

I'd like to try it. We've killed a bunch of deer with fusion .243 Winchesters and 30-06's with no complaints. Has been consistent in our experience. I like handgun hunting and the 10mm. I'll have to give these a try.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

OOPS, I forgot that,,

I carry the 10MM, or the 629-4 when I am walking our property,,
there, the main concern is the black bear,,

I have never carried on my property, but, the bears are increasing population like whitetail deer,,
I MEAN literally, we have LOTS of bears, and LOTS of momma-baby combos.
Momma is my main concern, at about 300 pounds.

The OP said, "1200 fps out of a 6" barrel" which is not at all the same.

I know we are splitting hairs here, but if you're going to challenge my claims I can back them up with actual data via YouTube ballistics channels alone vs. these claimed numbers, not to mention you are misquoting the OP.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Sig loads their 180 to about 1230 which is definitely not FBI lite territory. I load mine to about that spec with AA#9.
FBI lite runs .40 spec, maybe 50 fps faster.

If you're going to run 10mm, the only reason for going lite is personal protection.

Not splitting any hairs here.

I only quoted YOU, not the OP. BTW, the OP said nothing about a 6" barrel

You made the comment below, not some random unknown youtube wannabe.

I just want to make sure that I understand your viewpoint

You are calling Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load at 1250 FPS a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case"

However you are calling Underwood's 200 grain XTP at 1250 FPS "loaded on the hot side of SAAMI specs"

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"Acta non verba"

The fact you are splitting hairs undermines your argument.

I have that exact setup. Glock 40MOS with Trijicon RMR. Despite it feeling like a 2x4 in my hands, I love the combo.

Back on topic, this new 10mm load is a welcome addition.

As a fan of the 10mm, it is great to see industry support the caliber and offer new loads.

Federal tends to offer good products. I'd be surprised if this new load is not a good one.

As to how it stacks up against the Underwood and BB offerings, we will just have to wait and see.

Yes, you are, and you are either accidentally or intentionally misquoting me.

No, you didn't quote me. You misquoted me, TWICE now. Also, it was YOU who said something about a 6" barrel. That was my mistake.

Who said anything about a random YouTube wannabe? Your bias is showing. I'm talking about utilizing actual real life chronograph data, not just some random idiot's opinion.

That doesn't seem to be what you're doing at all here. What you're doing is misquoting me then propping up a strawman with that misquote and asking me, "Is this what you are saying?" My original reply clarifying my claim, which you asked me to do, is in plain English, easy to understand. There's no need to reconstruct my post to say something I did not say then ask me if I said it.

You are, for some reason, taking this completely out of the context of the sentence I wrote and running with it. Yes, I am comparing this Fusion stuff to the likes of other industry leaders who download their 10mm offerings, but no, in the sentence that I wrote, I am referring to what "we see from all the major ammo makers" as "watered down 40 S&W in a 10mm case," not Federal Fusion.


This adds nothing to the conversation. I am not splitting hairs. This is a valid argument, and the "hair splitting" is the fact that colt-saa has misquoted me more than once now.

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

At best it is 50fps at 1200 something. Your argument apparently is due to some personal issue or interest and not on the facts. Stdev between rounds at that pressure could easily be 25fps.

From earlier posts
“I know we are splitting hairs here”
And then
“I am not splitting hairs. This is a valid argument”

Guessing you are just here for an argument.

To the original poster, thank you!
Have always had good results from Federal.
More choices in 10mm is a good thing!

Hey look colt-saa, I quite enjoy your posts and I don't want to seem as if I'm being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative towards you. You're definitely one of my more favoriter posters here. But you didn't quote my post #8 100% in its entirety at all. I've already highlighted your mistake in my last reply which you may have ignored.

Here is my reply #8 actually quoted 100% in its entirety.


Here is what you consider quoting this same post 100% in its entirety, which is clearly a paraphrase and an inaccurate one at that because you've replaced the number 1200 with 1250 in regards to Fusion velocity:



Nowhere in my post #8 did I make the claim that Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load is listed as 1250FPS, and nowhere in my post #8 did I claim that Federal's new 200 grain Fusion load is a "watered down .40 S&W in a 10mm case." As I've already said, you are paraphrasing my actual claim out of context to make it appear as if I'm making a totally different claim. The first half of your "understanding" is completely wrong.

Hope this provides the clarification you were seeking.


Now as for ProCarryNAustin,

The velocity numbers we are discussing are averages which already take into account standard deviation. The FACT is that 1250FPS average out of a 4.5" barrel is SIGNIFICANTLY more velocity than 1200FPS average out of a 6" barrel, not just 50FPS with a stdev of +/-25FPS. Using the phrase "watered down .40 S&W" may have been somewhat hyperbolic, but the reality is that a lot of leading ammo makers are selling 10mm ammo which is on the very low end of 10mm velocities.

The longer the barrel the more velocity. These numbers are misleading due to different barrel lengths being used to obtain the data. I'm not arguing a personal opinion, I'm arguing actual data. I have nothing against Federal Fusion in fact I exclusively carry 120gr Fusion soft points in my 6.5 Grendel rifle and I love them.

I appreciate both of your comments and mean no ill will towards either of you personally. I love 10mm!!!!!

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

Federal insists on it........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Black Talons are not the Holy Grail defensive load. The stopped coating them black, because that made them "Evil", and now call them Ranger T. Very common/popular law enforcement load. Come in P+ also.

I have several boxes of the original 20 count 147 9mm Black Talons buried somewhere. And some ElDorado PMC Starfires.

Israeli Military (IMI) makes their own under a licensing agreement/partnership with Winchester/Olin. For a long time they were very common on Gun Broker in 50 ct boxes for a reasonable price in the late '90s.

I would really like to try some of the Ranger T 127 +P rounds in gel.

To The Truth and colt saa, please stop trying to ruin this thread with your back and forth. Take it to pmail, if you must. Normally, I appreciate what you both have to say, but not in this case. Thank you.

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FBINA, 204th Session

I have 147gr Rangers stacked in the EDC... I was more interested in the 10mm Talons as I collect older ammo like that, I have a box of each with the accepting of the 10mm and .44mag...

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This is the way....