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  #1  
Old 11-03-2020, 10:42 AM
delta-419 delta-419 is offline
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Have you tried to find 12ga 00 buckshot for 2 3/4" chambers lately. It is sold out in in every gun shop in my area. Everybody said that its on back order? I did score on a round that is new to me manufactured by Winchester that is a combo of a 1oz. slug and 3 OO buckshot pellets. Velocity is 1150. The round is to enable the shooter to score a hit if the slug is not on target! Buckshot is placed on top of the slug. Have any of you tried this ammo and what are your thoughts? Its a bit pricey at $21 for a 10 pak. PS: I shoot a newly acquired old M97 Winchester.
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Old 11-03-2020, 10:49 AM
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Ammo supply warehouse has 12 gauge 00 buck in stock. $239/250 rounds or $25/25 rounds. Yes,still pricey but available.

Pretty much anythng coming out of a 12 gauge will suffice for self defense,except rubber balls and bean bags etc.
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:33 PM
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I thought Slugs were for removing Hinges, door knobs or deer in the field?

Would you be ok in court, if you loaded Slugs for SD use ?
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:59 PM
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If I ever have to use a shotgun for self-defense, it will be at such close range that even bird shot will do the job. I have shotguns in 3 gauges, and thousands of rounds of clay pigeon shot for each of them.
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Old 11-03-2020, 01:52 PM
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Aim Surplus and Palmetto both have some buckshot in stock. I have a case coming tomorrow from Aim.
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Old 11-03-2020, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
I thought Slugs were for removing Hinges, door knobs or deer in the field?

Would you be ok in court, if you loaded Slugs for SD use ?
I can't see any reason why slugs would be any worse than buckshot or any other load in court. To me that would be like a 45 acp being worse in court than a 380 acp, or one rifle round be worse than another legality wise.
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Old 11-03-2020, 06:27 PM
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Nevada Ed, Evan Marshall said back in the day those slugs were great car stoppers. He said they would do a number on an engine block and disabled a car in no time.
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Old 11-03-2020, 06:53 PM
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Back in the day as an LEO when we carried model 10's (6 in the revolver and 12 in drop pouches) and High Standard Riot Guns then later Remington 870's we carried 00 buckshot in our shotguns. Mace and and a nightstick were out other defensive weapons. Times have changed!!
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Old 11-03-2020, 07:59 PM
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I have two 12 gauges, both Mossberg 500's, one is a Shockwave. I already had on hand shells for trap. The Shockwave has six trap shells which I pray will never be needed for anything other than cans or plastic jugs.
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Old 11-03-2020, 08:05 PM
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Way back in the day ... 1860's
Buck & Ball was loaded in Confederate smoothbore muskets , was quite effective against massed ranks charging fortifications ...
Still didn't win the war for them ... maybe it's time has come and gone .

A 12 gauge loaded with birdshot does a lot of damage at close range .
I keep mine loaded with #4 buck for inside the home and some 00 buck for back up ... just in case the #4 buck doesn't get the job done .

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Old 11-03-2020, 08:26 PM
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#4 buck for the inside, #1 buck for the outside for me. Gun Broker seems to have some, but at high prices.
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Old 11-03-2020, 08:30 PM
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I’ve seen birdshot penetrate less than 25acp in gel.
Buck vs Slug
Not sure about your state but no “degrees of deadly force” in most places.
Check TNOutdoors9 on YouTube on 12 gauge slugs. Was an eye opener for me.
I would be fine with buck or slug.
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Old 11-03-2020, 09:59 PM
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I prefer #4 buckshot for self defense over 00. 27 pellets vs 9. Less distance, but more spread and less potential for overpenetration.
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Old 11-03-2020, 11:02 PM
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I keep my 870 ex-police shotgun loaded with # 4 buck shot. Everything I have read, this is the "in-door" load for self defense.
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:30 AM
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i keep #2 bird and #4 buck in the tube, and slugs on the side saddle. targetsportsusa and buds have had 12ga in stock, but the situation seems to be getting worse all the time.


good luck!
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:54 AM
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I bought two police turned in 870 riot guns. And never gave a though that in my wildest dreams that I would have to use them. Now what with all the mess going on had previously laid in a supply of slugs,buckshot #4, some 4 buckshot and I already had some #7 and #8 birdshot and 4 boxes of #4 shot. Frank
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Old 11-04-2020, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCarryNAustin View Post
I’ve seen birdshot penetrate less than 25acp in gel.
Buck vs Slug
Not sure about your state but no “degrees of deadly force” in most places.
Check TNOutdoors9 on YouTube on 12 gauge slugs. Was an eye opener for me.
I would be fine with buck or slug.
Was that test YOU did take place at 10 or 15 feet? BTW, unless you were actually present for the test you talk about what you saw is Heresay. Odds are also good that test was done at 25 yards because the entire world seems to be convinced that 25 yards is the only distance that you can test ammunition at.

At 15 feet a 12 gage Target load will feature a 1 1/8 ounce of #8 shot with a muzzle velocity of 1200 fps. At 10-15 feet those pellets will not have lost much velocity so those 400 or so pellets will be at near peak energy. Spread for that pattern will be roughly 5 inches at 10 feet and 7.5 at 15 feet. Keep in mind that that is the total pattern size and the core of that pattern will be roughly 65 % of the total pattern and contain something around 80% of the load. So, if it only produces 8 inches of penetration you have to remember the total mass of the pellets reaching that depth. Basically you have a hole of tissue about 3 inches in diameter 8 to 10 inches deep that was instantly turned into hamburger. This why a "low power" shotgun Target load is so devastating, at short ranges that mass of tiny little pellets is devastating.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:16 AM
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I have a general policy of using the same ammunition the cops use, if I can find it, for my personal self defense. I think he's good . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
I thought Slugs were for removing Hinges, door knobs or deer in the field?

Would you be ok in court, if you loaded Slugs for SD use ?
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta-419 View Post
Have you tried to find 12ga 00 buckshot for 2 3/4" chambers lately.
No problem
Found it right where I put it
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:54 AM
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When the George Floyd mess started we couldn't find anything in our LGS but I did pick up 2 boxes of HV BB loads and I think those would work well for defending our castle.

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Old 11-04-2020, 08:59 AM
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“Was that test YOU did take place at 10 or 15 feet? BTW, unless you were actually present for the test you talk about what you saw is Heresay.”

7 yards. I was present. 7 and 8 birdshot. Results were visually impressive but stopped at 7-8 inches. I look for at least 12 inches of penetration in gel.

Have never seen a handgun or shotgun gel test at 25 yards.

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Old 11-04-2020, 10:11 AM
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A couple of years ago, my old neighbor shot a tweaker who kicked his door in with #8 in the chest from about 5 feet. I helped him fix his door frame and clean up some blood.

Tweaker did not die, nothing penetrated deep enough. However, it was enough to stop him in his tracks and he was no longer interested in coming in my neighbors house (talk about a buzz kill). He laid on the floor crying, until the ambulance scooped him up.

I personally would only use birdshot if I was real worried about over penetration.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:44 AM
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I’ve got some lead #4 high brass duck loads for in the house close encounters.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:30 AM
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I don’t have much buckshot, never had a use for it. I have several hundred 12 & 20g slugs left over from Ohio deer season. ( we have rifle now) Also have several hundred rounds of 12g 2.75” magnum loads of 4 & 5 shot and a few hundred Turkey duplex loads.

Armchair warriors who bad mouth shotguns for HD/SD have never seen what even Target Load 7.5 will do at short range. Most hunting accidents are short range, loading / unloading incidents. Center body is usually DOA and if in limb, it has to be amputated. Bird shot not good for the running gunfights but good for defense.
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Old 11-04-2020, 12:18 PM
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I was trained as a Combat Shotgun Instructor when I was in the Corps. We fired 350 rounds of 00 & Slugs in a three day time period. Lots of quick reaction drills and hostage drills. So I am partial to 00 & slugs. My copy of a USMC Remington M870 Mark 1 is loaded with six rounds of 00 Buck up first and the last two rounds are slugs.
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Old 11-04-2020, 02:56 PM
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During the 1996 Olympics here the FBI took over our hangar at Dobbins ARB. Tac vehicles, Zodiacs, etc. One room was used by their armorers. When they left they left a wall locker full of ammo, which I inherited. Shot gun ammo was Federal Premium 00 Buck and Federal grey box slugs.

Just like in the military, it easier to dump that stuff than it is to return it to the logistics guy.
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Old 11-04-2020, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
I don’t have much buckshot, never had a use for it. I have several hundred 12 & 20g slugs left over from Ohio deer season. ( we have rifle now) Also have several hundred rounds of 12g 2.75” magnum loads of 4 & 5 shot and a few hundred Turkey duplex loads.

Armchair warriors who bad mouth shotguns for HD/SD have never seen what even Target Load 7.5 will do at short range. Most hunting accidents are short range, loading / unloading incidents. Center body is usually DOA and if in limb, it has to be amputated. Bird shot not good for the running gunfights but good for defense.
One of the deadest guys I ever saw took a single load of cheap 12 gauge 7.5s to the upper chest and neck from 10 or 12 feet away. Pathologists call those 'rat hole' wounds for good reason.

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Old 11-04-2020, 03:55 PM
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Do dismiss the effectiveness of just plain bird shot at close in-house ranges. I will never forget seeing someone shot at roughly 15' in a living room with 1 1/8 ounces of no. 9 skeet shot. It all depends on what and where your needs are.
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Old 11-04-2020, 06:21 PM
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There was a study out there done by the Ga St Patrol years ago about the effectiveness of various buckshot loads. Their recommendation was #1 buck since it had more pellets, filled the pattern better, and didn't penetrate walls like 00 buck did. The hard part would be finding it nowadays. The only place I've seen it was in Federal 3" shells at BassPro a couple of years ago.
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Old 11-04-2020, 08:02 PM
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Lots of us in the NMSP used 4 Buck for exactly the above reasons. The 2 3/4" version is still commonly available.

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Old 11-04-2020, 09:18 PM
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I do not know if this is still made
Have not seen it for sale online in a very long time
It used to cost about $6 for a box of 10
Fiocchi Reduced Recoil 12LE00BK
My favorite defensive shotgun load
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:24 PM
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I just use buckshot. I have a ton of it.

Birdshot fans should check out the video from a shooting at Seattle Pacific University of few years ago. The shooter killed a student outside, went into a campus building, and shot 19 year old Sarah Williams in the chest from about 4 yards away. He used a full length over/under 12 gauge and birdshot.

At the shot, young Sarah stops, turns around, walks down a hallway, where another student helped her to the floor and called her Mom for her. She told her mom she’d been shot, and waited for the ambulance.

She describes what it felt like in this article.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ic-university/

I won’t link the video, but its not hard to find.

Now personally I subscribe to the “shoot them with anything and they’ll probably go away” school of thought. But some folks might wonder if a heavily muscled guy with a leather coat and a grievance might not press on through the birdshot.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:37 PM
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4 Buck in stock, get it quick
Nobel Sport Italia 12 Gauge Ammunition ANS124BK10 2-3/4" 4 Buck 27 Pellets 10 Rounds
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Old 11-05-2020, 02:01 AM
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I have 4 buck, but only about 20 rounds.

Plus 50 rounds of #3 lead bird shot for my 12 ga Mossy 500.

I live in a suburban area with close neighbors and need to limit over-prmetration.
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