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  #1  
Old 10-27-2020, 04:18 PM
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Default Second hand ammo

Beware : Picture heavy and not for the faint of heart in these tough times for American shooters.

Full disclosure : I live in Switzerland

I never meant to be an ammo hoarder but it starts to feel a bit like it. In the last few years I started shooting more, and whereas 22 lr, 9mm, and 223 has always been readily available and reasonably priced in bulk (1000 rds), some other bigger calibers (38/357, 44, 45, 10mm etc.) have seen an increase in prices, sometimes with a reduction of offer and little choice of brands.

I started checking ads from private sellers unloading ammo they didn’t need or want anymore (and I still do).

But then I placed some wtb ads and realised there’s a good number of people who gave up shooting, or sold a weapon but still had the ammo, who had an ageing or deceased parent and didn’t know what to do with the ammo.

As a rule of thumb I offer to pay 20 to 30% below the lowest price I can get from the LGS for fresh bulk ammo. I am sometimes taking a chance, don’t know how old the ammo is or how it’s been stored and have no recourse.

And it has been quite successful.

One young gentleman had a huge trove of ammo : his father’s buddy is a retired LGS in a somewhat remote region of the country. So he made a deal with the kid : he sells the ammo and they share the money plus he could keep stuff he liked for his ammo collection for free. Apparently there was over 1200 lbs of stuff. Lots of quality US and European stuff.

Now the kid lives 70 miles away from me and has no car. So he ended up coming down from his mountain on weekends by train (1 1/2 hrs one way) combining a delivery of abt 1000 rounds in his bag pack and grocery bag with a visit to his buddies in town.

That’s the bounty :






























This one is old (‘56) repacked Swiss GP11 tracers





I ended up with 8300 rounds of all kinds for abt $ 2500.- spread over several months during the first Covid wave. I had to make a spreadsheet to keep up.
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2020, 04:18 PM
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And from other sellers :

1920 rds of 7.5 mm parabellum (.30 Luger)



Some more of the same ammo in a military cantine





A 1200 rds can of Hirtenberger sub machine gun 9 mm






Surplus GP11 from an LGS





WWII .45 (empty can and one box only, he has a full unopened can too but pricey)





Various from a 90 yrs old gentleman



Old stuff from an LGS



Other private sellers









Well nearly all of it will be shot in the coming years so it’s not really hoarding is it ?

And I still buy new stuff from LGS, always happy to support them. Just bought 1000 rds of Geco .357 for $ 450
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:25 PM
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That's a great haul and an inventive way to obtain your ammo. Be advised that the 45 ACP EC-7-44 ammo will have corrosive primers.
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:34 PM
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Wow! looks like you are good for a whole week.
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:35 PM
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I do believe you'll be able to handle any small conflict!!
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:57 PM
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Is that all you have???
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:00 PM
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That’s a good start.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:01 PM
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Over the years I’ve purchased a fair amount of ‘second hand’ ammo.

But I’ve never gotten fortunate enough to locate a stash in that quantity!!!
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:05 PM
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Default What am I looking at

In your first post the 12th picture from the top has on open box, under the .38 special box with what kind of looks like shotgun shells cut in half?

What is in that box?
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:24 PM
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Are you asking about the Focchi box of .38 S&W Special? Those are marked as 148 grain wadcutters. If I read it correctly.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
That's a great haul and an inventive way to obtain your ammo. Be advised that the 45 ACP EC-7-44 ammo will have corrosive primers.

Thanks, yes that one I won’t shoot, I use it as photo prop
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:41 PM
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Is that all you have???
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Originally Posted by cadmike View Post
That’s a good start.
Well in the second hand dpt pretty much, from the last 6 months.

But I did buy some thousands of new stuff at good prices, 4 k of 9mm, 2 k each of 357 and 38, 1.5 k of 45, 5 k of .22 lr ...













And some slightly less exciting SH modern stuff

3000 rds of Lapua pistol king .22



.44 mag



10 auto



5.56


Last edited by CLASSIC12; 10-27-2020 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duman444 View Post
In your first post the 12th picture from the top has on open box, under the .38 special box with what kind of looks like shotgun shells cut in half?

What is in that box?

That is 60 rounds of GP11 packed in 10 X 6 rounds cardboard / metal clips for the old Swiss straight pull rifles like the K31





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Old 10-27-2020, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
Well in the second hand dpt pretty much, from the last 6 months.

But I did buy some thousands of new stuff at good prices, 4 k of 9mm, 2 k each of 357 and 38, 1.5 k of 45, 5 k of .22 lr ...

And some slightly less exciting SH modern stuff

3000 rds of Lapua pistol king .22

.44 mag

10 auto

5.56

If anyone here knew that someone had that much ammo on hand, they would be calling it an arsenal and you would probably get a visit from the local, state and Federal folks.
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Last edited by ArchAngelCD; 12-09-2022 at 04:56 PM. Reason: No need to duplicate all those pictures
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ View Post
If anyone here knew that someone had that much ammo on hand, they would be calling it an arsenal and you would probably get a visit from the local, state and Federal folks.
Hopefully, they are more sane in Switzerland.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:21 PM
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CLASSIC12, I hope you have a secure mountain top lair to store all that ammo.
With the current ammo shortage in the US, you could find you are a target for invasion, just to get your ammo stash.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
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Hopefully, they are more sane in Switzerland.
Nothing they could do about it in my state.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:45 PM
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The ammo that you have along with the guns that you evidently have, would in some states and cities, if found out(like a complaint filed by an anti-gun neighbor), get you investigated as a terrorist and you would probably get a lot of news media time.
Your guns and ammo would would probably be seized and displayed for the TV Stations and you would probably have to go to court to get your property back. Things may even get worse.
Be glad that you live in Switzerland. For all of your ammo, GOOD FOR YOU!
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
Beware : Picture heavy and not for the faint of heart in these tough times for American shooters.

Full disclosure : I live in Switzerland

I never meant to be an ammo hoarder but it starts to feel a bit like it. In the last few years I started shooting more, and whereas 22 lr, 9mm, and 223 has always been readily available and reasonably priced in bulk (1000 rds), some other bigger calibers (38/357, 44, 45, 10mm etc.) have seen an increase in prices, sometimes with a reduction of offer and little choice of brands.

I started checking ads from private sellers unloading ammo they didn’t need or want anymore (and I still do).

But then I placed some wtb ads and realised there’s a good number of people who gave up shooting, or sold a weapon but still had the ammo, who had an ageing or deceased parent and didn’t know what to do with the ammo.

As a rule of thumb I offer to pay 20 to 30% below the lowest price I can get from the LGS for fresh bulk ammo. I am sometimes taking a chance, don’t know how old the ammo is or how it’s been stored and have no recourse.

And it has been quite successful.

One young gentleman had a huge trove of ammo : his father’s buddy is a retired LGS in a somewhat remote region of the country. So he made a deal with the kid : he sells the ammo and they share the money plus he could keep stuff he liked for his ammo collection for free. Apparently there was over 1200 lbs of stuff. Lots of quality US and European stuff.

Now the kid lives 70 miles away from me and has no car. So he ended up coming down from his mountain on weekends by train (1 1/2 hrs one way) combining a delivery of abt 1000 rounds in his bag pack and grocery bag with a visit to his buddies in town.


I ended up with 8300 rounds of all kinds for abt $ 2500.- spread over several months during the first Covid wave. I had to make a spreadsheet to keep up.
So, everybody can now see why we can't get the good stuff here in the US; it is all in Switzerland!

Last edited by ArchAngelCD; 12-09-2022 at 04:57 PM. Reason: No need to duplicate all those pictures
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:56 PM
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Members, please, let's not duplicate the OP's photos when we post . What a stash! Usable, quality stuff. Wherever you live, I've found it wise not to advertise or discuss what you have. Seeing all this ammo, I wouldn't think twice, but lighting a joint would cause me to leave immediately.

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Old 11-12-2020, 10:31 AM
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Bought an additional old military wooden box and did some sorting out of the ammo, especially the loose boxes. I also have several unopened cases of various calibers (.32 ACP, .30 Luger, .357 Mag, .223 Rem, .308 Win etc..) so I’m well stocked. But sadly most ranges are closed due to COVID















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Old 11-12-2020, 11:30 AM
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Well if your like some Swiss Citizens I know that Ammo get eaten up quick in your MG. I for 1 Love the Sig 57, and ANY Metal frame Pistol you folks make... Plastic...Na not so much. As far as ammo...im fine...been buying for a few years.

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Old 11-12-2020, 12:22 PM
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More evidence of why nobody invades Switzerland. I managed to pick up some .35 Whelen, .280 and .38 Super under similar circumstance this winter.
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Old 11-12-2020, 01:21 PM
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The rare ammo I see is all the Norma handgun stuff, Norma stopped all their handgun ammo production a while back, now it falls into the collector category. And the Remington 38special 95gr SJHP is from the 70s/80s', the bullets as reloading components became no longer available too.
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:05 PM
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Just incredible!! They call him "Mr. Ammo".
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Old 11-14-2020, 10:50 PM
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It's called a good start here in Texas.
(All joking aside, that's a very nice ammo purchase on your behalf.)

I dug out a box of this that I bought to display with my (reworked for WWII) Colt M1917 revolvers and WWII era holsters for them.

I might have a case or two of that beautiful Swiss surplus GP11 around the place for my K31. I handload for the 1889SR.

You wouldn't happen to have any spare GP90 or GP90/23 that you could share laying about the place do you?

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Old 11-14-2020, 11:40 PM
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Congrats on your supply line. Hoping you get some good trigger time shooting some of your stash.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:10 AM
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UPDATE

The young gentleman who sold me all the vintage ammo last year contacted me (see 1st post). He found more where the first batch came from.

This time he had a buddy drive him so he brought the whole thing in one lot.



There’s 1900 .30M1 Hirtenberg and Magtech



2380 .223 (Remington and 4 boxes Hirtenberg)




Some .38, .45, .458, 600 rds of Swiss 9mm



9 bricks of .22 plus 16 loose boxes



And two nice empty cans, one being a french 12.7





10580 rounds in total including 5200 .22lr

Cost was $ 1700.-

It’s nice to have guns, it’s even nicer to have guns & ammo!
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:19 AM
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Nice stash. I’m sure a lot of folks on this side of the pond are drooling right now.
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Old 01-16-2021, 06:47 PM
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Nice, I think discretely letting people who handle estates know that you buy ammunition could be a great way to get a lot of ammunition. I sell real estate and I was at a listing about 10 years ago and the late owner of the property was a gunsmith or some such thing and the basement looked like a well stocked gun shop, all kinds of ammo, reloading equipment etc. I let the sellers agent know that I was interested but it had been spoken for by a family member. My goal is to just barely outlive the ammo I have.
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Old 01-31-2021, 02:43 PM
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Received some more stuff

7.65 and 9mm Swiss military ammo



.45 Colt



.44-40 Win.



.22 lr



.22 short



And I drove to pick up some modern rounds from a couple guys who gave up shooting

9mm Geco



.357 Sig (Rem UMC) and .45 ACP (American Eagle)



.44 Magnum Magtech



12 ga slugs Magtech





And 2500 rounds of Serbian / PPU M193



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Old 02-01-2021, 06:19 PM
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I got worn out just looking at all that!! Wow.
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Old 02-01-2021, 06:41 PM
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WOW is an understatement.
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Old 05-15-2021, 04:18 AM
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Bought some more the last couple of month



































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Old 05-15-2021, 04:33 AM
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I'm hoping you don't live upstairs.
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Old 05-15-2021, 06:41 AM
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That’s a good start.
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CLASSIC12 View Post
Bought some more the last couple of month





Are the unmarked plastic containers somebody's reloads? If so, I'd recommend not shooting any of it. I've seen two guns seriously damaged by jacked up handloads.

Nice haul of ammo you've put together. You're doing well.
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by scott1970 View Post
Are the unmarked plastic containers somebody's reloads? If so, I'd recommend not shooting any of it. I've seen two guns seriously damaged by jacked up handloads.

Nice haul of ammo you've put together. You're doing well.

Thank you.

They’re not and I wouldn’t shoot them if they were. The 44 mag is factory made Magtech, the 38 and 357 is Winchester and Remington and the 9 mm in the red boxes is Fiocchi ZETAPI TER



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Old 05-17-2021, 01:29 PM
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The original seller also had some loading components. Guess I’ll dust off the press and crank out a few thousand rounds









Anyone knows shelf life of primers ? This is from the sixties mostly



















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Old 01-11-2022, 12:09 PM
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2022 update (new ammo)

It seems that the huge demand in the US is slowly raising prices here in Switzerland as well.

In October 2020 I bought several thousands of Winchester 9 mm ammo for $ 215.-/1000.





The same ammo then jumped to $ 248.-/1000 in the summer of 2021. I found another source and bought 30’000 rounds of 124 gr Sellier & Bellot for $ 222.-/1000 for the whole shooting club. I drove 400 miles to pick it up, as shipping would have added another $ 400.- to the bill. Needless to say we shot it all in the summer and fall and it is now out of stock at the LGS.




So today I went to one of the big LGS to check prices and availability. I was hoping to buy some of this cheap ($ 390.-/1000) 7.62 X 39 for my new AK. Out of stock.




So instead I took 2000 rounds of Geco at $ 540.-/1000, 2000 rds of the 9 mm Winchester for $ 248.-/1000, and grabbed 2000 rds of repackaged milsurp 5.56 NATO 62 gr at $ 435.- / 1000.

I also asked them if I could buy 30’000 rounds of the Win 9mm for the club, and at what price. He mentioned the owner might agree to a $ 5.-/1000 discount IF he agrees to let go of 30’000 rounds. I’ll check in tomorrow.











I’ve read the article on Vista and how higher prices mean higher margins for them and it’s unlikely prices will come down anytime soon. I also need to figure out how much I have and how much I need for the rest of my shooting career, so I can stop buying someday (I’m 53 so I hope to shoot for a good 20-25 more years).
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Old 03-08-2022, 05:05 PM
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Switzerland has a lot of shooting associations with outdoor ranges which are supported by the various counties. Those are non profit setups and allow citizens to hone their shooting skills outside of their military service, both for rifles (300 meters) and pistols (25 and 50 meters). Soldiers can also do their qualification shooting at those ranges.

The army provides ammo, GP 11 (7.5 Swiss) & GP 90 (5.56 NATO) for rifles and 7.65 & 9 mm parabellum for pistols, all at 35 cents per round. The clubs put their orders in in December and pick up their ammo in February, before the start of the season, which runs from March to October.

I picked up 4000 9mm and 8000 7.65mm for my club at the army arsenal.



86 associations pick up their order over two days, so there is some stock there









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Old 03-08-2022, 06:36 PM
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Oy vey, so much ammo, I'm feeling a little lightheaded.
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Old 03-08-2022, 07:22 PM
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If I remember correctly all able bodied males in Switzerland are considered like our National Guard. One exception is that they get to take their weapons home and maintain and shoot them to stay in practice. If I am wrong I am sure Classic12 will tell me and correct my statement.
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Old 03-08-2022, 07:43 PM
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I'll start trusting our government when they start building public shooting ranges and selling us ammo like they do in Switzerland.
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Old 03-08-2022, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
That's a great haul and an inventive way to obtain your ammo. Be advised that the 45 ACP EC-7-44 ammo will have corrosive primers.
Nothing a good barrel scrubbing won't fix. I shot oodles of that through a Colt Commander with no problems.
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Old 03-08-2022, 10:07 PM
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Call this thread ammo porn.

Lots of old Remington and Winchester/Western.

Cool
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Old 03-08-2022, 10:07 PM
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Great pictures. Thanks for sharing them. I was near greifensee briefly to tour the Metler operations back in the 80s and had time to visit some of the local gun stores. I wish I had been able to go shooting while I was there, but had to return a but early due to the birth of my first son. Enjoy your freedoms.
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Old 03-12-2022, 04:25 PM
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That should keep you busy for awhile.
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Old 03-12-2022, 05:04 PM
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Default Second hand ammo

A guy contacted me, he had some Swiss military ammo he had no use for, so I picked up 960 rounds of 7.65 mm parabellum (.30 Luger), 120 rounds of GP11 (7.5 X 55 mm Swiss) and some collectible GP11 and 9mm (red boxes) for $ 350.-



There’s also a growing sense of panic, with fear that ammo prices will shoot up and availability issues, so we decided to organise a group buy for the club, and I picked up 30’000 rounds at the LGS for $ 7200, i.e. $ 240 / 1000 rds of Geco 124 grains.



The club safes are almost full, about 45’000 rounds not counting .22 lr




Last edited by CLASSIC12; 03-12-2022 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 04-27-2022, 08:54 AM
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My favourite LGS is specialised in second hand weapons, he buys from estates, windows or retiring collectors. More often than not there’s ammo with it which he sells me at very reasonable prices

Picked up this haul last month



Tons of .22





Stocked up on 7.62 X 39 for my new Kalashnikovs

From a private seller



And the last crate of Igman (ex Yougoslavia) from another LGS





Some Swiss milsurp, 7.65, 9 mm and old GP11 (7.5 X 55 Swiss) from another private seller



Some old .45 ACP, real cheap, $ 220 for this lot



And some GP 90 (5.56 NATO Swiss), 30-30 Winchester and .223 Remington SP



This seller also had some mags I picked up. Three of the Colt including the 20 rds are Vietnam era / sixties

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