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Old 11-12-2020, 05:28 PM
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Default Stopped by Cabelas to kill some time

Not that I expected to buy anything. Looking at the ammo they had a good amount of 38-55 on the shelf. What caught my eye was the sign that said "Not For Revolvers". The back story on that sign has to be entertaining.
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Old 11-12-2020, 05:38 PM
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Well if 38-44hv ammo is good then 38-55 must be more better.
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Old 11-12-2020, 11:33 PM
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Well if 38-44hv ammo is good then 38-55 must be more better.
38-44 ... 38-55 ...
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Old 11-13-2020, 01:21 AM
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I’ve noticed a number of “not for” signs in various shops. Saw one today on .45 GAP ammo “not for other 45’s”. Saw one on .38 Super a few weeks ago “don’t work in revolvers”. One shop put stickers on each box of .357 Sig stating “NOT MAGNUM”.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:29 AM
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Sometimes I think the more I learn about guns the more I understand how new gun owners get confused. I still remember being young and a gun person explaining .38 caliber cartridges too me. Long and short Colt, S&W, NP, Auto, Super, Special, etc. My head was spinning. Larry
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Old 11-13-2020, 11:27 AM
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Some folks are totally clueless when it comes to ammo .
Anything with 38 is 38 special ... anything with 9mm on the box has to be 9mm Luger . One guy bought a case of 38 S&W and thought it was for 38 special ... and there was a no return policy on ammo .
There is a great book called "Cartridges of the World" that takes some of the mystery and confusion out of ammo .
Anyone interested in firearms would enjoy reading / having it for reference . It has helped me a lot over the years .
I never knew so many different 38 rounds existed and even more 9mm rounds are out there ... you could write a book !
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Old 11-13-2020, 11:43 AM
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Even as I was laughing at this thread and all of its implications, it dawned on me that we were all born ignorant, and didn’t know anything until we learned by experience or the teaching of others. Ours is a fairly technical hobby and ammo designations are particularly confusing, even to the point where some pistol shooters venture into rifle shooting or vice versa. So, my friends, maybe we should cut them a little slack and not show our amusement (at least not too openly! ) FWIW, I wonder how many of us on this forum have ever actually held, much less shot a rifle in 38-55? I have, but I’m an old Schuetzen aficionado. I’m still trying to sort out all of the 32 cartridges (rifle and pistol) and wonder why they used 32-44 twice! :rolleyes”

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Old 11-13-2020, 05:12 PM
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Gee, I was wondering why I had to whack on the back of those 38-55 rounds with a hammer to get them into the holes of Grandad's old 38 Webley! And then the dang thing wouldn't close. Wonder if I can get my money back?

I'll see myself out . . .
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:38 PM
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I remember my disappointment when I found the 25 ACP I had scrounged from somewhere would not work in the 25 Stevens RF rifle in my grandfathers closet.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:48 PM
Hang-Fire Hank Hang-Fire Hank is offline
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Sure nuff! Had a student buy a box of "38s" at Wally World. When he fired them, he didn't hit the entire 2x2' cardboard for his 1st three shots. Asked him if I might try. I hit the target, but were two keyholes. Took the fired cases out, noticed no rims, looked at the box & they were 38 Super. Doesn't work well in a 5-shot revolver. Neither he nor the sales guy knew what they were doing.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
FWIW, I wonder how many of us on this forum have ever actually held, much less shot a rifle in 38-55? I have, but I’m an old Schuetzen aficionado.
I used to have a Winchester Model 94 Legendary Frontiersman commemorative in .38-55. I used in some cowboy action side matches back in the day. Long since sold it.

But I have two interesting stories along these lines - let's see what y'all think.

When I bought my first revolver, 1980 or 81, it was a Model 19 [4", P&R]. I bought a box of ammunition with it. In .38 caliber. Being ignorant I took what the counter guy gave me and went home. When I tried to load the gun the rounds would not drop into the cylinder. Being ignorant (they say ignorance is bliss but it can get confusing) I took the gun back to the store. The counter guy looks at the ammuntion, shakes his head, mutters something like "I don't know what I was thinking" and swaps that box for a box of .38 Special and I go on down the road and many years of handgun shooting later I have a parallel incident.

Note - I believe that that first box of ".38 caliber" was .38 S&W but maybe not, as you shall see.

Fast forward into the mid-2000s. I've been a handgunner for years, took combat courses, carried a handgun for years, shot cowboy action for years (.45 Colt single action Vaqueros so no relation to this story), mostly preferred carrying J frames or K frame snubbies in .38 Special, and so forth.

Then I acquired a S&W 4th Model for my then collection.



When I bought it I had a discussion with the LGS owner and I said something about the .38 S&W caliber of this 4th Model not fitting into a .38 Special (I sure had never tried it in the intervening years). He says I'm wrong. Hmmmm.....

We take out a few guns and we try and, sure enough, the .38 S&W fits easily into every .38 Special cylinder we tried, just as he said it would.

Query - what do you suppose happened all those many years ago when a ".38 caliber" round would not fit into my new Model 19?

I'd love to know what y'all can come up with. It's been bugging me for a very long time.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:57 PM
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if you want excellent product knowledge, you probably shoudn't go to cabelas
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
I used to have a Winchester Model 94 Legendary Frontiersman commemorative in .38-55. I used in some cowboy action side matches back in the day. Long since sold it.

But I have two interesting stories along these lines - let's see what y'all think.

When I bought my first revolver, 1980 or 81, it was a Model 19 [4", P&R]. I bought a box of ammunition with it. In .38 caliber. Being ignorant I took what the counter guy gave me and went home. When I tried to load the gun the rounds would not drop into the cylinder. Being ignorant (they say ignorance is bliss but it can get confusing) I took the gun back to the store. The counter guy looks at the ammuntion, shakes his head, mutters something like "I don't know what I was thinking" and swaps that box for a box of .38 Special and I go on down the road and many years of handgun shooting later I have a parallel incident.

Note - I believe that that first box of ".38 caliber" was .38 S&W but maybe not, as you shall see.

Fast forward into the mid-2000s. I've been a handgunner for years, took combat courses, carried a handgun for years, shot cowboy action for years (.45 Colt single action Vaqueros so no relation to this story), mostly preferred carrying J frames or K frame snubbies in .38 Special, and so forth.

Then I acquired a S&W 4th Model for my then collection.



When I bought it I had a discussion with the LGS owner and I said something about the .38 S&W caliber of this 4th Model not fitting into a .38 Special (I sure had never tried it in the intervening years). He says I'm wrong. Hmmmm.....

We take out a few guns and we try and, sure enough, the .38 S&W fits easily into every .38 Special cylinder we tried, just as he said it would.

Query - what do you suppose happened all those many years ago when a ".38 caliber" round would not fit into my new Model 19?

I'd love to know what y'all can come up with. It's been bugging me for a very long time.
I’m baffled. I take it as an article of faith that a 38 S&W round will not chamber in a 38 Spl chamber - it should be a couple of thousandths too “fat.”

Froggie
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Old 11-13-2020, 07:24 PM
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When did they start putting 55, 38's in a box? Is that like the bonus size?
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Old 11-14-2020, 02:34 AM
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A lot of .38spl and .357s will accept 38 S&W and some .38 S&W is smaller in diameter than before. Colts are usually tighter chambered than S&Ws. Sometimes you have to press hard to make the S&Ws fit. Some won't.......
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang-Fire Hank View Post
Sure nuff! Had a student buy a box of "38s" at Wally World. When he fired them, he didn't hit the entire 2x2' cardboard for his 1st three shots. Asked him if I might try. I hit the target, but were two keyholes. Took the fired cases out, noticed no rims, looked at the box & they were 38 Super. Doesn't work well in a 5-shot revolver. Neither he nor the sales guy knew what they were doing.
Hank M.

I had a case years ago where a "fine young man" tried to hold-up a gas station. He had an old Colt Model 1892 New Army & Navy revolver made in the 1890s. There was enough rim that he loaded the revolver with .38 Super+P cartridges in the revolver that was designed for black powder pressures. The amazing thing is that the cylinder held the pressure, but the barrel split. The young man, known as Q Dog, died with a sawed-off shotgun in one hand and the Colt revolver in the other hand. Such is life.
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Old 11-14-2020, 09:31 AM
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I had a case years ago where a "fine young man" tried to hold-up a gas station. He had an old Colt Model 1892 New Army & Navy revolver made in the 1890s. There was enough rim that he loaded the revolver with .38 Super+P cartridges in the revolver that was designed for black powder pressures. The amazing thing is that the cylinder held the pressure, but the barrel split. The young man, known as Q Dog, died with a sawed-off shotgun in one hand and the Colt revolver in the other hand. Such is life.
Sounds like a happy ending to me, as long as no one else was harmed(?) The stupidity of many criminals tends to be our first line of defense against them!

Froggie
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Old 11-14-2020, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post



We take out a few guns and we try and, sure enough, the .38 S&W fits easily into every .38 Special cylinder we tried, just as he said it would.

Query - what do you suppose happened all those many years ago when a ".38 caliber" round would not fit into my new Model 19?

I'd love to know what y'all can come up with. It's been bugging me for a very long time.
I have a box of Winchester and a box of Remington .38S&W. I tried the Winchester in a M19-5 with 6 cartridges and they would not chamber. I tried the Remington and 6 out of 7 chambered. My reloads would not chamber. Larry
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Old 11-14-2020, 12:59 PM
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Once was having a conversation with an acquaintance who mentioned he just bought a “.357 magnum”.
Being a revolver fan my ears perked up and I asked what gun?
He said “Glock 32”
I said oh, .357 Sig
He said no not a Sig, a Glock.

I smiled and let the matter drop.
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Old 11-14-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
I’m baffled. I take it as an article of faith that a 38 S&W round will not chamber in a 38 Spl chamber - it should be a couple of thousandths too “fat.”

Froggie
They'll chamber-just have to push a little harder!
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:51 PM
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At one point in the early 20th century it looked like almost every country in Europe had its own 6.5!
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Old 11-16-2020, 02:00 AM
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I have bought boxes of .357 Sig off local forum from people thinking they were magnums...works for me!


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Old 11-16-2020, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag312 View Post
I had a case years ago where a "fine young man" tried to hold-up a gas station. He had an old Colt Model 1892 New Army & Navy revolver made in the 1890s. There was enough rim that he loaded the revolver with .38 Super+P cartridges in the revolver that was designed for black powder pressures. The amazing thing is that the cylinder held the pressure, but the barrel split. The young man, known as Q Dog, died with a sawed-off shotgun in one hand and the Colt revolver in the other hand. Such is life.
There was a similar story about a young fella loading .380ACP into a .38 Special revolver. He pulled said wheelgun on a police officer, pulled the trigger, but the cartridge had naturally slid too far into the charge hole for the hammer to make contact. The police officer sent him to his eternal reward a second later.
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:33 PM
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I was out at my shooting range one day, and the range owner was finishing up a box of 38 S&W in a Mod 15. Kind of grumbled when a round didn't fit in the chamber. Commented that's 4 rounds out of this box that won't fit in the chamber. I looked and it was 38 S&W and double checked his gun and it was a Mod 15 and barrels marked 38 S&W Special. I mentioned I was surprised only that many did as the 38 S&W are .360 instead of .357 for the 38 Specials. He looked at me in surprise and said You're kidding me! I never knew that.

This man did custom reloading for quite a number of people, and had been for over 25 years.
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Old 11-16-2020, 02:59 PM
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Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers, pub 1935, is my go to manual on old pistol cartridges. 38 S&W = diameter of case = .383", diameter of cartridge head = .433"; 38 Special = diameter of case = .377", diameter of cartridge head = .433". I have loaded some 38 S&W for a friend after I got a die set in. I do recall the shell holder was same as 38 Special, but that was where the similarity ended.
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