Ammo Scalpers

Gary M · #**101** 03-01-2021, 10:06 AM

And possibly, that "scalper" that is waiting for the store to open so they can buy low and sell high is there because they are unemployed or under employed because their government failed them and shut down their employer due to the Chinese Death Flu plandemic and uses the extra couple hundred they make to feed their family, pay their bills, and whatever else it takes to survive this current crisis.

It is always easy to condemn the motivations of others when you feel it affects you personally. I'm not going to do that regardless of my low post count (remember, everyone started at 1).

I have also yet to see in the Forum classifieds anyone selling guns and / or ammo at their purchased price to benefit these people that did not decide until recently that those may be good things to have.

I'm fairly sure that if I listed my 64-3 DAO police turn in for the 150 I paid for it and another 100 for 300 rounds of ammo, that no one on this board that is well stocked in guns and ammo would take advantage of the situation and leave it for the poor person that needs it.

PeteC · #**102** 03-01-2021, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CH4

Other than one local pawn shop, Sportsman’s, Walmart, Cabelas and LGSs appear to be keeping their prices at pre-Covid margins....

Same thing I am finding at local Dunhams. Prices were about the same as pre-Covid full retail.

Price gouging is starting at the manufacturers now. My gun range was not getting their regular shipments - at contracted prices - but slightly different ammo from the same supplier was very available at 15 cents more per round. By slightly different, I mean like flat v. round nose, same load.

As a result, the plain target ammo they were selling increased 20 cents per round to 60~80 cents just in the last weeks. At the same time, Dunhams is still selling ammo from the same manufacturer for $15~25/box of 50 at retail. ROFL!

geo57 · #**103** 03-01-2021, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jughed440

100%!

Like clockwork...with every so-called 'ammo shortage' we get the sleepy complainers who were caught with their pants down (again) and refuse to admit that they were not smart enough to stock up after the last episode. Instead they blame anyone who didn't get caught with their pants down. They're among the crowd who by habit blame others for the problems that they have put on themselves....Of course that mindset comes from the 40+ years of people being told that if they have any problem it's not their fault.. it's the fault of the people who don't have the same problem.

Obvious to all are the sellers offering ammo at staggering prices to people who have made the choice to not be proactive when it comes to having a good supply of ammo on hand...but what is being ignored by the complainers are the closed ammo auctions on GB that started at a penny and ended at the price level, or higher, of what "the scalpers" are asking for...amazing what desperate buyers are WILLING TO PAY. Of course the 'penny auction' seller is automatically blamed for the high price.
As for private sales...the seller may be in need of money and looking to profit off of their wise investment, who knows? or cares?, at least they have it. It's theirs to decide what they will do with it.
What gets me is the sanctimonious nature of some who sit on their huge stash of ammo and refuse to sell it AT THEIR COST to "their fellow human being who is in need", all the while complaining about those who are kind enough to offer any ammo at all, and set at prices that people are WILLING TO PAY.
(still waiting on the high-ground crowd to take care of the gentleman who had requested a case of affordable 9mm ammo).

Having stated all that, I do have much sympathy for the young people who are just becoming of age to own a firearm. They have a legitimate gripe about current ammo costs. As for the rest (who should know by now) ..being prepared beats ignoring the possibilities of whatever may trigger an ammo shortage...every time. Some people just can't learn that.

You just hit a home run. Perfectly stated.

diyj98 · #**104** 03-01-2021, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary M

And possibly, that "scalper" that is waiting for the store to open so they can buy low and sell high is there because they are unemployed or under employed because their government failed them and shut down their employer due to the Chinese Death Flu plandemic and uses the extra couple hundred they make to feed their family, pay their bills, and whatever else it takes to survive this current crisis.

If they're feeding their family off what they're making scalping ammo, they might be better served spending that time looking for a job. Of course most of those scalpers in my area don't work because they don't want to. Most have scammed their way into disability checks so they can hunt and fish full time.

Tiribulus · #**105** 03-01-2021, 10:48 AM

I sure would love to know where all these LGS are that are getting and selling ammo at sane prices. I am no sleep in, drunken dope fiend who is too lazy to be at the door at the break of dawn to be able to get some ammo.

I'm just a 57 year old first time handgun owner who wants to be a responsible, safe and proficient shooter who will not wind up a usable statistic for the gun grabbers and who also recognizes that that will not happen without practice, which obviously requires ammo. I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

There is not one LGS within 50 miles of the Detroit area selling any popular ammunition out the door whatsoever. Not that I've found. With a gun purchase only or if you pay for range time. Prices are a dollar a round even then.

It's a long story, but I do not have the money to pay these prices for ammunition. I am very politically aware, for decades, and these scummy overlords we now have at the helm of this once great nation pushed me into now or never mode and it was all I could do to scrape together enough to buy a couple handguns, a 9 and a 45, having no idea what the availability and cost of ammunition would be. I knew there was a shortage, but not like this.

i know I am not the only one in this position.

I would have thought that champions of the 2nd amendment would consider it more important to have millions of new gun owners well equipped to join them than to line their own pockets.

Looks like I was wrong.

The only thing I trust less than free enterprise is big government.

It is absolutely true that socialism is a corrosive and eventually tyrannical and destructive ideology that I could never embrace.

However, the leftists are right too. Capitalists would sell their mother for a buck.

nbedford · #**106** 03-01-2021, 10:54 AM

It took me a long time to overcome my bias in favor of factory ammo, and to realize that every revolver is a law unto itself regarding what it shoots most accurately. I have not bought factory revolver ammo in a long, long time. My reloads with my home cast bullets are more accurate in my revolvers. So, other than 22LR which I had a good supply of before the Sandy Hook stampede, I am sure not contributing to the scalpers. Once partly because they were made with good starline brass I actually bought some HSM Cowboy action 44 Specials. This is a target shot at 16 yards with my Henry Big Boy in 44 Special/44 Magnum with the HSM factory ammo and some .430" Speer swc's I had reloaded. Never saw one tumble to that extent at 16 yards before.

Gary M · #**107** 03-01-2021, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I sure would love to know where all these LGS are that are getting and selling ammo at sane prices. I am no sleep in, drunken dope fiend who is too lazy to be at the door at the break of dawn to be able to get some ammo.

I'm just a 57 year old first time handgun owner who wants to be a responsible, safe and proficient shooter who will not wind up a usable statistic for the gun grabbers and who also recognizes that that will not happen without practice, which obviously requires ammo. I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

There is not one LGS within 50 miles of the Detroit area selling any popular ammunition out the door whatsoever. Not that I've found. With a gun purchase only or if you pay for range time. Prices are a dollar a round even then.

It's a long story, but I do not have the money to pay these prices for ammunition. I am very politically aware, for decades, and these scummy overlords we now have at the helm of this once great nation pushed me into now or never mode and it was all I could do to scrape together enough to buy a couple handguns, a 9 and a 45, having no idea what the availability and cost of ammunition would be. I knew there was a shortage, but not like this.

i know I am not the only one in this position.

I would have thought that champions of the 2nd amendment would consider it more important to have millions of new gun owners well equipped to join them than to line their own pockets.

Looks like I was wrong.

The only thing I trust less than free enterprise is big government.

It is absolutely true that socialism is a corrosive and eventually tyrannical and destructive ideology that I could never embrace.

However, the leftists are right too. Capitalists would sell their mother for a buck.

Put up a post in the Want To Buy section for the quantity, caliber, and price you are willing to spend.
I'm sure that many of the anti-gouging posters on this thread will gladly sell you what you seek at their original cost.

geo57 · #**108** 03-01-2021, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I sure would love to know where all these LGS are that are getting and selling ammo at sane prices. I am no sleep in, drunken dope fiend who is too lazy to be at the door at the break of dawn to be able to get some ammo.

I'm just a 57 year old first time handgun owner who wants to be a responsible, safe and proficient shooter who will not wind up a usable statistic for the gun grabbers and who also recognizes that that will not happen without practice, which obviously requires ammo. I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

There is not one LGS within 50 miles of the Detroit area selling any popular ammunition out the door whatsoever. Not that I've found. With a gun purchase only or if you pay for range time. Prices are a dollar a round even then.

It's a long story, but I do not have the money to pay these prices for ammunition. I am very politically aware, for decades, and these scummy overlords we now have at the helm of this once great nation pushed me into now or never mode and it was all I could do to scrape together enough to buy a couple handguns, a 9 and a 45, having no idea what the availability and cost of ammunition would be. I knew there was a shortage, but not like this.

i know I am not the only one in this position.

I would have thought that champions of the 2nd amendment would consider it more important to have millions of new gun owners well equipped to join them than to line their own pockets.

Looks like I was wrong.

The only thing I trust less than free enterprise is big government.

It is absolutely true that socialism is a corrosive and eventually tyrannical and destructive ideology that I could never embrace.

However, the leftists are right too. Capitalists would sell their mother for a buck.

So you admit to being anti free enterprise and anti capitalism and are here begging for understanding and compassion ?

Gary M · #**109** 03-01-2021, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

There is not one LGS within 50 miles of the Detroit area selling any popular ammunition out the door whatsoever. Not that I've found. With a gun purchase only or if you pay for range time. Prices are a dollar a round even then.

I live within 50 miles of Detroit and have seen Dunhams and Rural King sell at 15-20 per 50 for 9mm. (I passed).
Doesn't last long, and is not the 10 or less that was the previous weekly sale price that was still regularly available 6 months ago,
but it is there at times.

Tiribulus · #**110** 03-01-2021, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo57

So you admit to being anti free enterprise and anti capitalism and are here begging for understanding and compassion ?

If that's the way you read me sir, I doubt if any further response will do any good.

geo57 · #**111** 03-01-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

If that's the way you read me sir, I doubt if any further response will do any good.

From post # 105

Did you not say that you don't trust free enterprise ?

Did you not take a swipe at capitalists ?

Tiribulus · #**112** 03-01-2021, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary M

Put up a post in the Want To Buy section for the quantity, caliber, and price you are willing to spend.
I'm sure that many of the anti-gouging posters on this thread will gladly sell you what you seek at their original cost.

Thank you. I didn't even know you could do that.

I'm pretty good for the moment for 45acp actually. I stumbled over this small outfit in Memphis that had Winchester white box for 66 a round. I bought a bunch of that and have I think 700 rounds through the M&P 45 2.0. I'm doing pretty good. I could probably prevail in a home defense situation, but I'm still not where I want to be. I have a single box of Federal HST (75 bucks) that I haven't touched.

It's the M&P 9c (3.6 in.) that's on the way that I have no ammunition for whatsoever.

The only thing I can find for under 70 cents a round is some chintzomatic off brand stuff that some YouTube videos showed as being pretty unreliable.

I'll take a look.

Tiribulus · #**113** 03-01-2021, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo57

From post # 105

Did you not say that you don't trust free enterprise ?

Did you not take a swipe at capitalists ?

To paraphrase Winston Churchill.

Capitalism is the worst system of economics there is. Except for all the rest.

I am a committed capitalist, but I'm not kidding myself.

Tiribulus · #**114** 03-01-2021, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary M

I live within 50 miles of Detroit and have seen Dunhams and Rural King sell at 15-20 per 50 for 9mm. (I passed).
Doesn't last long, and is not the 10 or less that was the previous weekly sale price that was still regularly available 6 months ago,
but it is there at times.

Last time I called Dunham's they said they had none. Which location is this?

I'd love to know when they were getting a shipment.

AManWearingAHat · #**115** 03-01-2021, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteC

Same thing I am finding at local Dunhams. Prices were about the same as pre-Covid full retail.

Price gouging is starting at the manufacturers now. My gun range was not getting their regular shipments - at contracted prices - but slightly different ammo from the same supplier was very available at 15 cents more per round. By slightly different, I mean like flat v. round nose, same load.

As a result, the plain target ammo they were selling increased 20 cents per round to 60~80 cents just in the last weeks. At the same time, Dunhams is still selling ammo from the same manufacturer for $15~25/box of 50 at retail. ROFL!

You are experiencing something called "The Economy of Scale". Your LGS's regular shipments are peanuts compared to Dunhams who likely has a fixed price the manufacturer is required to honor per a contractual agreement contingent on them buying a very large volume of the ammunition. You generally need to be buying a massive volume of ammunition to have this sort of pricing available to you as a retailer. Such agreements help to add predictability and stability to revenue streams and production quotas.

Gary M · #**116** 03-01-2021, 01:22 PM

And many of those contract prices may be forcing manufacturers at a net loss as prices of raw materials have jumped, costs increased with more OT, Chinese Death Flu PTO, social distancing and mask mandates reducing production output, and hiring employees to fill orders and provide to distributors.

Yes, they may be taking more profit right now, but when Remington was facing bankruptcy and practically giving away ammo with rebates added on, did we complain then? Not me. I bought the Federal 223/5.56 at 5.99 / 20 or Remington 9mm at 7.99 / 50 before rebates just like everyone else did or should have been doing.

Is everyone blaming "gas gouging" fuel retailers because the price of gas is up by a buck a gallon since the election? Or $2.25 propane is now over 4 in some places?

When paper products were wiped out last spring and prices soared and quantities limited, did you buy your normal 4 pack when they returned or buy extra? Same for bottled water, meats, and dairy.

People laugh and sneer at those of us that are derisively called preppers or survivalists. We are not pessimistic about the future, but optimistic that we have planned well in advance and have actually taken a load off the supply chain when things go south. My rounds of ammo and cases of food, water, staples, and supplies made it more available for those that need it now, not less.
You may pay more than I did, but if you need, actually really need ammo or other basic living necessities, would you rather have it on the shelves at a higher price or not available for less?

ElectroMotive · #**117** 03-01-2021, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by germansheperd

You know where its at. Some even state 3 rounds exchanged over 3 yards.

No, I actually dont. I always see people tell the world about these supposed statistics, but they never present them. Then when they get called on the lack of data its always obfuscated with a comment on par with "find them yourself".

germansheperd · #**118** 03-01-2021, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I sure would love to know where all these LGS are that are getting and selling ammo at sane prices. I am no sleep in, drunken dope fiend who is too lazy to be at the door at the break of dawn to be able to get some ammo.

I'm just a 57 year old first time handgun owner who wants to be a responsible, safe and proficient shooter who will not wind up a usable statistic for the gun grabbers and who also recognizes that that will not happen without practice, which obviously requires ammo. I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

There is not one LGS within 50 miles of the Detroit area selling any popular ammunition out the door whatsoever. Not that I've found. With a gun purchase only or if you pay for range time. Prices are a dollar a round even then.

It's a long story, but I do not have the money to pay these prices for ammunition. I am very politically aware, for decades, and these scummy overlords we now have at the helm of this once great nation pushed me into now or never mode and it was all I could do to scrape together enough to buy a couple handguns, a 9 and a 45, having no idea what the availability and cost of ammunition would be. I knew there was a shortage, but not like this.

i know I am not the only one in this position.

I would have thought that champions of the 2nd amendment would consider it more important to have millions of new gun owners well equipped to join them than to line their own pockets.

Looks like I was wrong.

The only thing I trust less than free enterprise is big government.

It is absolutely true that socialism is a corrosive and eventually tyrannical and destructive ideology that I could never embrace.

However, the leftists are right too. Capitalists would sell their mother for a buck.

I have no sympathy for you. You are 57 grow up. Ammo was dirt cheap from 2016-2019. Where adjusted for inflation it was the cheapest is was in history and it was absolutely EVERYWHERE.
You got caught with your pants down, lazy, and or cheap. So now you expect people who bought low because they lived through Obama, Clinton (you are old enough to remember that and there is a pattern) to just give you a free pass and sell you their stash at below the current market rate.
Every Friday or Sunday my wife and I go grocery shopping at Wal-Mart. If there was a good deal on a brick or box of something I threw it in the cart. Sometimes 2 boxes. I didn’t see that $4-$25 a week in my grocery bill but over a couple years i added to my stash cheaply. Some weeks I didn’t buy any.
If you want ammo this weekend go to a gun show its there. You want a deal on ammo get up EVERY morning at be at the Wal-mart, Dunhams, Rural King and I mean EVERY morning do not miss a day and you will find some at rock bottom price.
When you put that effort into I promise you wont just give away you work, effort, foresight to some whining slacker.
FYI- your state is partly responsible for this look in the mirror buddy.

ElectroMotive · #**119** 03-01-2021, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

It's actually not. You're ignorant on the matter, and so was the previous long time, blithering on poster who condemned it.

A BB or airsoft gun can absolutely be of benefit to a shooter, especially in these times. It can give you a cheap live fire ability to draw from concealment and fire X-number of rounds. Note they often cycle because they use a compressed gas, so while there wont be much recoil, there will action may cycle. It is also useful in the winter and bad weather, as it allows you to do it inside. No, it probably wont give you the same trigger pull, but it still gives you trigger time. Trigger time is better than no trigger time. A BB or airsoft gun probably wont give you the same manipulations, but you can do manipulations with your real gun that has been cleared, checked, checked again, and checked yet again. Quality snap-caps, like those from ST Action can be a huge help.

jughed440 · #**120** 03-01-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by germansheperd

I have no sympathy for you. You are 57 grow up. Ammo was dirt cheap from 2016-2019. Where adjusted for inflation it was the cheapest is was in history and it was absolutely EVERYWHERE.
You got caught with your pants down, lazy, and or cheap. So now you expect people who bought low because they lived through Obama, Clinton (you are old enough to remember that and there is a pattern) to just give you a free pass and sell you their stash at below the current market rate.
Every Friday or Sunday my wife and I go grocery shopping at Wal-Mart. If there was a good deal on a brick or box of something I threw it in the cart. Sometimes 2 boxes. I didn’t see that $4-$25 a week in my grocery bill but over a couple years i added to my stash cheaply. Some weeks I didn’t buy any.
If you want ammo this weekend go to a gun show its there. You want a deal on ammo get up EVERY morning at be at the Wal-mart, Dunhams, Rural King and I mean EVERY morning do not miss a day and you will find some at rock bottom price...

Yeah...ammo was dirt cheap years ago. While looking through the box of different 12 Ga. shells to see what was available for an afternoon of destroying bowling pins and other items, I saw the box of Winchester 12 Ga. "Ranger" 00 Buck with a price tag $12 for 25 shells (they're going for $4 a shell these days)...even older was the basic winchester rabbit loads..tag read $3.58, box of 25.
I began "hoarding" (as the sleepers like to call it) .22LR when a state senator proposed 5 cents a round on every type and caliber of ammunition. Luckily that never passed, but the threats of such tax laws a will never go away, and I will not allow myself to be caught short...I guess that makes me a selfish ammo pig in the eyes of some, but I sleep good at night.

tops · #**121** 03-01-2021, 03:06 PM

[QUOTE=Tiribulus;141080051I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

.[/QUOTE]

I'm 79 yrs. old and started shooting at 4 yrs. old. A BB gun has helped me become a better shooter. When I got financially able too buy .22s I used them instead of BBs. I have never been financially able too shoot center fire cartridges all the time.
When I was younger and could see I would shoot a 6 in. .357M, one hand at 50 yds. I could hit a quart oil can at least 4 out of 6. I think that's not too bad for an ExBB shooter.
I'm not a professional but I have run the cost of a farm down gun barrels and it might help you too not be closed minded about trying something you haven't tried. Larry

Muddyboot · #**122** 03-01-2021, 03:10 PM

Man this thread is getting ugly, take a deep breath guys, were on the same team..

ImprovedModel56Fan · #**123** 03-01-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I'm just a 57 year old first time handgun owner who wants to be a responsible, safe and proficient shooter who will not wind up a usable statistic for the gun grabbers and who also recognizes that that will not happen without practice, which obviously requires ammo. I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol.

I don't know why you, as a first time handgun owner, consider yourself qualified to make the statement which I have bolded. For your information, you are wrong. The first two things which you need to learn are sight picture and trigger control, and these you can learn on a decent air pistol. A close third for many individuals and firearms is how to handle recoil. While there are a few air pistols which even provide for this, you mostly DO need the CF pistol concerned to learn about this, if it is a problem. I do not know how much ammo it will take for you to learn this, and neither do you.

AManWearingAHat · #**124** 03-01-2021, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

I also recognize that a BB gun will do next to nothing to make me proficient with a centerfire pistol. Sorry friend, but that's a truly asinine statement.

That's funny, because the #1 reason I am so proficient with a centerfire rifle is because of dryfire and sending untold thousands of pellets down the barrel of an air rifle working on sight alignment, trigger control, and building good positions. I similarly am personal friends with some outstanding pistol shooters who would attribute their success to the same thing.

I would posit that you know very little about marksmanship fundamentals or teaching them.

Rob613 · #**125** 03-01-2021, 04:38 PM

I guess all the SD classes I took using air soft guns are useless.

I have a Glock 19 Umarex that I shoot in the basement often. In fact, this gun has helped me get my draw to first shot down under 2 seconds almost by itself.

As far as topic of this thread, you pay it or you put in leg work looking for ammo. Daily trips to big box stores will help you learn their delivery schedule. They are the only stores that have ammo even close to pre-shortage prices.

BLACKHAWKNJ · #**126** 03-01-2021, 05:04 PM

Dislike the term "scalper". Ticket scalpers-you don't have to see that game/concert/special event. Yes, I like to shoot, I don't have to shoot nor am I hunting to put food on the table. If the price of basic foodstuffs go up because someone is manipulating the production, the supply, the transportation or distribution, that is another matter.

geo57 · #**127** 03-01-2021, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddyboot

Man this thread is getting ugly, take a deep breath guys, were on the same team..

Apparently not. That togetherness went out the window when over & over terms like " scalper ", " gouger ", " stabber " , " just the newbies " ( like they weren't newbies when first here ? ) kept reappearing. Then we heard a few either directly or indirectly criticizing an open, free market. Sorry, no, I'm not on that team.

beaverislander · #**128** 03-01-2021, 07:17 PM

Tribulus, there's lots of great members and good threads here but you're not gonna win trying to get through to this group. It's kinda like CNN.... you just gotta turn the channel..... unsubscribe and move on.

Tiribulus · #**129** 03-01-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by germansheperd

I have no sympathy for you. You are 57 grow up. Ammo was dirt cheap from 2016-2019. Where adjusted for inflation it was the cheapest is was in history and it was absolutely EVERYWHERE.
You got caught with your pants down, lazy, and or cheap.

As I said. I'm a new handgun owner. I didn't have my first one until a few months ago.

===========================
I should have said that I have plenty of experience with long guns and shotguns. I understand sight picture, shot anticipation and trigger break etc.

What I don't have a lot of experience with is recoil and target re-aquisition with a handgun with speed. I don't see how a BB gun would help me with that. I should have been clearer.

I also should have been clearer that I am not looking for sympathy in any way or on any level. I'm a big boy who's been through quite a bit.

I'm disappointed that so many would use a time of perilous attack upon our right to keep and bear arms to enrich themselves.

People who don't actually need ammunition buying it up to price gouge others, especially a sea of new potential allies in this fight is greedy and stupid.

If that offends anybody, that's tough.

Tiribulus · #**130** 03-01-2021, 07:43 PM

On another note, I found a local guy who had some 9mm ammo for 80 a round. Not great, but with shipping and everything about comparable to a decent price these days online He also traded me for some of my 45. 115 grain only, but that'll have to do for now.

Thanks again to those who were being helpful.

ElectroMotive · #**131** 03-01-2021, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

On another note, I found a local guy who had some 9mm ammo for 80 a round. Not great, but with shipping and everything about comparable to a decent price these days online He also traded me for some of my 45. 115 grain only, but that'll have to do for now.

Thanks again to those who were being helpful.

Did you insult him and tell him he was a gouger/scalper/profiteer/opportunist/[insert epitaph here].
$40/50rd box is far higher than it was a year ago. I am willing to bet he is selling/trading 3-3.5 times the price from a year ago. Or did you grin and say "thank you"?

ElectroMotive · #**132** 03-01-2021, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

What I don't have a lot of experience with is recoil and target re-aquisition with a handgun with speed. I don't see how a BB gun would help me with that. I should have been clearer.

Perhaps its time to learn by reading.

Gary M · #**133** 03-01-2021, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

On another note, I found a local guy who had some 9mm ammo for 80 a round. Not great, but with shipping and everything about comparable to a decent price these days online He also traded me for some of my 45. 115 grain only, but that'll have to do for now.

Thanks again to those who were being helpful.

I suggest you look up Michigan Gun Shows. There is one in Jackson in a couple weeks and another coming up in Novi first weekend in July.

I was at Flint last weekend and many were less than .80 cpr with no tax and no shipping (6 bucks to get in). If you wanted to buy 500, you could get that down to about 60 cpr.

Also, there was SD ammo that was more than typical, but in the $1.50 range so not quite as obnoxious as FMJ range rocket pricing.

Trading also works there although in my case it was 9mm for 45 ACP. 250 9mm 115 FMJ for 200 45 230 FMJ and 20 230 Federal HST. Not sure how trading 45 for 9 would go.

BC38 · #**134** 03-02-2021, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroMotive

It's actually not. You're ignorant on the matter, and so was the previous long time, blithering on poster who condemned it.

Seems some people need some remedial reading lessons.

I presume I am the "previous long time blithering on poster who condemned it" - it being using a BB gun for shooting practice.

If you bother to really read what I said (as opposed to reading something INTO what I said) I never condemned BB gun practice, nor did I say it wouldn't improve trigger or sight picture practice. Obviously it will.

What I said is that it is NOT a substitute for practice and familiarity with the REAL firearm you plan to use to defend yourself and/or your loved ones. Especially for a NEW shooter with their first gun that they just bought.

Now, if you want to demonstrate real ignorance by attempting to argue that it is, have at it.

I have shot a lot of pellets and BBs myself. Helped me with a lot of the fundamentals. Didn't help me become proficient with the handgun I carry every day for self defense though. Never will either.

You may improve your draw and fire times with a BB or airsoft gun, but you are NOT going to improve your second shot times OR accuracy, because you have to practice those skills while dealing with RECOIL, and a BB or airsoft gun DOESN'T HAVE ANY.

Every new gun owner needs to put a few hundred rounds down range to develop proficiency at shooting a real firearm AND to prove the reliability of that new gun. Trying to argue otherwise is simply foolishness. Or possibly ignorance. Take your pick.

BC38 · #**135** 03-02-2021, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

On another note, I found a local guy who had some 9mm ammo for 80 a round. Not great, but with shipping and everything about comparable to a decent price these days online He also traded me for some of my 45. 115 grain only, but that'll have to do for now.

Thanks again to those who were being helpful.

If I lived close enough to you I'd sell you a few boxes worth at a reasonable price or trade you 9mm for 45acp. Unfortunately we're practically on opposite sides of the country. Glad you found someone close by enough to help you out. Best of luck with it.

BC38 · #**136** 03-02-2021, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectroMotive

Perhaps its time to learn by reading.

LOL, yeah, reading about sight picture recovery, taking follow up shots, and handling recoil. That's the answer...

HorizontalMike · #**137** 03-02-2021, 09:31 AM

With all this talk about BB/pellet guns to practice with, I want to insert what many others have learned and that is using a Crimson Trace laser to practice with. What it can teach you is "when" you jerk, "what" direction you jerk, and to a lessor extent "how you reacquire" your target (sans recoil).

And if you REALLY want better feedback, set up your cell phone video recorder, replay and take notes when practicing with your CT. I have them on three different revolvers and I swear by them. PLUS, the CT will also help strengthen your trigger finger in the process...

Just my $0.02

Jaco1234 · #**138** 03-02-2021, 10:56 AM

I am reading about "buying bots". These are programs that scan the internet for hot products and immediately begin buying all they can.

Because of the pandemic, many products from toys to food items are being bought in this way and then marked up for sell on other sites.
These programs started in the hunt for "rare" Nike shoes.

I believe, paranoid as it sounds, that ammo is being targeted (no pun intended) by these buyer bots.

nbedford · #**139** 03-02-2021, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Call me a crusader if you will. At least I am consistent.

I could make several thousand dollars selling off my ammo and primers. But I won't.

I didn't buy any of it to sell. I bought them for my own use and I'll keep them for that purpose.

I can earn more money. I can't make more powder or primers so easily.

I won't contribute to the current insanity by buying anything at ridiculous prices either.

I agree 100%. I also won't clean out the shelves when I find ammo at one of the big box stores for a reasonable price.

Only factory ammo I have bought in the last few months has been 22LR. I bought two boxes of CCI mini-mags at Walmart for about $375 per box (100 per box). They had just gotten a shipment in, but I saw no need to wide 'em out. I reload everything else I shoot. If everyone used a bit of restraint there would not be a shortage.

BC38 · #**140** 03-02-2021, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbedford

Only factory ammo I have bought in the last few months has been 22LR. I bought two boxes of CCI mini-mags at Walmart for about $375 per box (100 per box). They had just gotten a shipment in, but I saw no need to wide 'em out. I reload everything else I shoot. If everyone used a bit of restraint there would not be a shortage.

Same here. Not counting 22lr I probably only have 5-10k of factory rounds. I'm much better stocked on reloading components with around 60k worth.

Longcarbine · #**141** 03-02-2021, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandman4delta

A previously reputable and reasonable online site that sells
"Less Expensive Than Soil" is now at 1.50 and up. Very disappointing.

They are not the only so called reputable dealers doing it, I would say about 3/4 of the online ammo sites are doing it. I just close my account with them and unsubscribe from their emails, leaves more for the folks willing to pay those prices.

Jack Flash · #**142** 03-02-2021, 01:47 PM

We hear a lot of talk about greedy flippers as if they are "one of us" or "our own". Personally, I doubt that many of them are. Surely they don't own firearms for all the different cartridges they buy. They would be buying and flipping toilet paper or hand sanitizer if those commodities were still in short supply. I would guess the majority of them don't even own a gun.

As so many have said, what they do is apparently not illegal. Personally, I think it's wrong, but there's nothing I can do about it.
If I ran a store selling ammo at retail, I would set a strict limit, say 2 boxes each, on every customer. If I thought someone was bringing in all his friends, brothers, sisters, girlfriends, and wives to buy up all my stock, I would ban them from the store.

They would no doubt flame me on TwitBook, probably drive me out of business, but that's probably why I'm not in the business in the first place.

tops · #**143** 03-02-2021, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorizontalMike

With all this talk about BB/pellet guns to practice with, I want to insert what many others have learned and that is using a Crimson Trace laser to practice with. What it can teach you is "when" you jerk, "what" direction you jerk, and to a lessor extent "how you reacquire" your target (sans recoil).

Just my $0.02

When my wife was starting too shoot a pistol she was shooting everything but the target. I told her she was moving when she pulled the trigger. Naturally she said she wasn't. We went to the house and used the laser on the wall. She admitted she was moving as she pulled the trigger. She started dry firing using the laser to practice her trigger pull and she improved. Larry

ElectroMotive · #**144** 03-02-2021, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Seems some people need some remedial reading lessons.

I presume I am the "previous long time blithering on poster who condemned it" - it being using a BB gun for shooting practice.

Self-outting poster. You are indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

What I said is that it is NOT a substitute for practice and familiarity with the REAL firearm you plan to use to defend yourself and/or your loved ones. Especially for a NEW shooter with their first gun that they just bought.

Allow me to reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tops

Why can't the people that are having a hard time finding ammo buy a pellet or BB gun and use it for practice. Practice is just trigger pull and sight alignment and a BB gun will do that just as good as a center fire gun and a lot cheaper.

How's that fit with the "train with what you carry" philosophy? Do you not believe in that principle, or are you going to carry a BB gun for self defense?

He never said anything, ANYTHING, about "train with what you carry". He did say that a BB gun will help with trigger pull and sight alignment. He is correct. You are the one that took his point to absurdity by injecting the comment about him using a BB gun for self defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tops

I never said to use a BB gun for self defense. I said use one to practice sight alignment and trigger pull.

Yeah, I read what you said and addressed it point by point.
The point is using a BB gun to practice sight alignment and trigger pull is NOT sufficient training or realistic enough training for self defense - unless that is what you are carrying for self defense. Obviously you agree that isn't a good idea.

And I reply simply by using your own comments...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Now, if you want to demonstrate real ignorance by attempting to argue that it is, have at it.

I have shot a lot of pellets and BBs myself. Helped me with a lot of the fundamentals. Didn't help me become proficient with the handgun I carry every day for self defense though. Never will either.

You may improve your draw and fire times with a BB or airsoft gun, but you are NOT going to improve your second shot times OR accuracy, because you have to practice those skills while dealing with RECOIL, and a BB or airsoft gun DOESN'T HAVE ANY.

You are stuck in the past, and not reading enough. There are BB and airsoft guns that do use compressed air to simulate recoil. While they dont mimic the recoil of a particular firearm 100%, they do it enough. With regards to airsoft weapons and some BB guns, they actually do replicate the controls and the use of them. They do these things well enough that instructors all over the US, including in LEAs, use them for fam-fire and indoor training. They really arent that much different from .22LR conversions, but they are far less expensive to purchase and operate.

That said, the poster you tried to go after didnt mention shooting them to simulate a powder burning, centerfire pistol. He mentioned it as a means to improve sight alignment and trigger pull. While its true that they may not offer a similar trigger pull to firearm, any trigger manipulation is better than none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC38

Every new gun owner needs to put a few hundred rounds down range to develop proficiency at shooting a real firearm AND to prove the reliability of that new gun. Trying to argue otherwise is simply foolishness. Or possibly ignorance. Take your pick.

Nobody is arguing that. You are merely trying to make an argument that isnt there, or padding your post to make to make it look like it was something of substance. Its not. You can stop now.

pharmer · #**145** 03-02-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiribulus

As I said. I'm a new handgun owner. I didn't have my first one until a few months ago.........People who don't actually need ammunition buying it up to price gouge others, especially a sea of new potential allies in this fight is greedy.....

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."
I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

germansheperd · #**146** 03-02-2021, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geo57

Apparently not. That togetherness went out the window when over & over terms like " scalper ", " gouger ", " stabber " , " just the newbies " ( like they weren't newbies when first here ? ) kept reappearing. Then we heard a few either directly or indirectly criticizing an open, free market. Sorry, no, I'm not on that team.

Its like when Boomers get tee’d off when someone younger calls the “Boomers” yet they are the first ones to call out “Millennials” and bitch about “Millennials”. Can’t have it both ways.......lol unless you are a Boomer on Smith-Wesson forum.

germansheperd · #**147** 03-02-2021, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharmer

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."
I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

Man I hate to tell you people you are doing it all wrong. Quit CALLING and start DRIVING. A lot of the store people don’t care and just say no because you are the 100th person to call.
Once again get up every morning and go to the store very first thing. 9 times out of 10 you wont find anything but that 10th time you will score.
While a certain someone was on this board yesterday crying I bought these 4 boxes for $18.36 each at 9:04 a.m. from Wal-Mart RIGHT after I dropped my son off at school.

tops · #**148** 03-02-2021, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharmer

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo.

Are those the only pistols they have? If so, Why?

Gary M · #**149** 03-02-2021, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharmer

100% accurate. Today's case: A guy I know got his deceased brother's Llama .380 over the weekend. His daughter recently bought a Taurus .380. 2 guns and zero ammo. I get to searching and lo-and-behold, the local Academy shows "WWB 95gr .380 acp FMJ" @ $25/ box 50. Shows "in stock." I tell him call 1st before driving over. Calls store, no one picks up phone. Calls corporate and they heat up the local @ gun counter. Guy says: "No, we don't have it. Every morning there are 10 old guys in the parking lot having breakfast waiting on the truck." Friend asks: "When does truck come?" Mgr: "Can't tell you, it's not allowed. These guys will follow a truck from the warehouse to here so we don't give out info."

I have maybe 6 rds of .380 acp in my "mix dump" boxes in my truck. I'll dig 'em out and give them to him but I am hesitant, as 2 people with zero experience/ instruction with unfamiliar handguns and no access to practice might be worse than no ammo. Joe

First thing I would do is try to get them away from .380 and into 9mm. .380 has been more expensive and harder to get long before this current shortage and is more so now.

Barring that...

You could always try to trade something that you are well or over stocked for some .380 and then sell or give it to them.

Or they could talk to one of the "10 old guys" and try to work out a deal.

Or they could find a gun show and buy it there.

Not as easy as complaining about scalpers and gougers on an Internet forum, but much more effective for procuring ammo if you need it.

AManWearingAHat · #**150** 03-02-2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by germansheperd

Man I hate to tell you people you are doing it all wrong. Quit CALLING and start DRIVING. A lot of the store people don’t care and just say no because you are the 100th person to call.
Once again get up every morning and go to the store very first thing. 9 times out of 10 you wont find anything but that 10th time you will score.
While a certain someone was on this board yesterday crying I bought these 4 boxes for $18.36 each at 9:04 a.m. from Wal-Mart RIGHT after I dropped my son off at school.

Glad you're managing to find some ammo. I personally don't have the time or the patience to be camping out big box stores, so I've shelved almost everything but air guns. Lots of fishing this summer

It's important to have other hobbies.