The real question is who is putting the squeeze on them?

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Smith, and Wesson, and Me.

I think a competent lawyer can make that argument.

I mean...Judge Roberts reversed himself on the Individual Mandate from being against it saying it violated the Constitution... then after a visit from WH staff... he tore up his argument, pulled a complete 180 and ruled that the Individual Mandate was perfectly legal.

So anything is possible.

On the Ammo makers?

It has to be ATF and most likely the Department of Justice. We all saw that these gov't agencies all went rogue in 2020. Flat out went rogue and didn't even try to hide it. I have no doubt there was a deal brokered to give ammo makers tax breaks, extra covid relief money and/or promises of protections against the worst of the planned attacks on their businesses by the new administration if they just play ball for a year or so.

All ammo makers and gun manufactures were deemed "Essential Businesses " by a federal judge in March or April 2020 so no matter what state they operated in, they didn't have to shut down production so Covid didn't effect them. If a worker couldn't make it in for whatever reason there's 5 more waiting in the wings to fill his spot. That's how serious production facilities/companies work. They are NEVER in a position where they can't operate their facilities otherwise they'd have been out of business shortly after their grand opening.

It's not Nuclear Science to make sure ammo casings are all standing up when they enter/exit a hopper. It doesn't take a 4 year Bachelor's Degree to count primers as they casually stream by under your nose. Training people to stand at a hopper and watch brass roll by is a 1/2 hour job. Tops. Everything is automated. Machines are doing 98% of the work. A person standing at a station on either end of the line is just a formality.

There is, literally, NO EXCUSE for a 13 month long shortage that still has no end in sight.

Zero. None. Nada. Zilcho.

Follow up to my earlier post ( #48 ). I found a website with a short synopsis of the anti-gouging law in each state. All have a related statute on the books regarding price gouging during periods of emergency declaration. They vary in the degree of what is considered gouging. Most said between 10 and 30 percent above pre emergency prices. One state, Alabama IIRC, states " unconsionable prices ". The goods/services effected by the various laws also differs by state. Some limit it to fuel, food or medicine. Others just say essential products. No mention made as to whether ammo is an essential commodity.

So

Yes, LG is gouging, IMO.
Yes, they are negotiating a legal minefield of diverse state statutes.
No, it's not going to get better until we all refuse to pay unconscionable prices.

I went to a gunshow in Arkansas this weekend. Lots of ammo was available, at least relative to what i've seen in the past year. All of it was way high. Primers $250 a thousand, etc. If the authorities had chosen to press the issue, they would have needed a very large paddy wagon. And no, I did not see anyone actually buy any ammo. I may go back to the show today to see if the tables are stacked or empty of ammo.

..I've bought several things recently on line and tax was added to the bill. I hope Lucky Gunner can get on board if that's the problem. We have enough blocks to buying going on without this added on top of it all.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Where I live in Texas the State rate is 6.5%, the City and County tack on another 2% for a total of 8.5%.

The City and County get the bulk of their revenue from property taxes on real estate.

Personally, rather than fret over it, I would just not look to them as a source.
This ain't rocket surgery.

BTW, Two weeks ago my local Scheels had dozens of boxes of Fiocchi 142gr .357 mag on the shelves at $34.99/bx/50.

Supposition and wild guesses are no substitute for real facts. There are many reasons for the ammo shortage, none of which you have listed. American citizens have caused this shortage, just like they created the toilet paper shortage by buying up everything they can find. Ammo hits the shelves at local stores and is snapped up in hours, if not minutes.

Ammunition companies, after becoming Covid compliant are trying to make up for lost time while keeping their employees safe. While they may be working overtime and/or adding additional shifts, they are hesitant to add additional machines because they may not recoup the cost once supplies catch up and demand falls back to normal levels.

In this perfect storm, you also have to take into account the 7 million new gun owners added last year who want ammo for their new guns, and more people going shooting because of the additional time off Covid created.

These are all facts and are easy to check. Leave the conspiracy theories about ATF and/government induced shortages out of the equation because they are false and do nothing more than stir people up for no valid reason. Let's stick to proven and documentable facts, not wild accusations.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

What are you doing!!! Bringing facts into a perfectly rabid conspiracy argument? How dare you!!!

As for the poster in AZ saying the ammo supply is being choked, in my 20+ years of living in the desert SW, the supply of EVERYTHING is choked here compared to East of the Rockies.

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Release the Kraken

Internet post of the week for any forum. Nicely done.

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Release the Kraken

Why don't they admit to gouging, you mean?

This is nothing new. We've gone through this about every four years - about five times in my memory. It happened when it looked like Hilary Clinton was going to win, after Newtown, and when Bill Clinton won among others.

I guess if a conspiracy to constrict ammo worked once it would work multiple times.....and the secret wouldn’t get out. Color me skeptical on that one.

What is different this time? Pandemic - riots hyped by the media and an election cycle with democrats specifically calling for gun bans.

Despite some claims in previous posts, ammo manufacturers (and component suppliers) have been impacted by COVID closures. Ammo workers are trained and skilled workers - you wouldn't want just anyone putting ammo together. That wouldn't go well.

What's really different? Remington! Shut down a major manufacturer for bankruptcy and take their production out of the ammo pool during extra high demand and the ammo shortage will be even worse.

I think Rodmaker01 hit the nail on the head. I just found that the OK AG announced activating "The Emergency Price Stabilization Act, also referred to the state price gouging statute, prohibits an increase of more than 10% for the price of goods or services after a declared emergency. The statute automatically triggers after the issuance of a state or federal emergency declaration." Too bad the AG office I called couldn't have mentioned that as a possibility.

OK issued a state of emergency on 3/15 relating to the ice/snow storms that hit the state. It is in effect for 30 days. It is meant to specifically cover the cost of building supplies when trying to make property repairs. Probably carries into other areas too, apparently. It sure didn't stop the price increase of my raw cedar boards that I just bought at the lumber yard for a raised vegetable bed. Those increased 21% since 3 days after the ice storm.

Thank you for bringing up a great point.

I don't believe Fiocchi is a company owned by either of the Jason's.

It's ammunition made in Italy which....if memory serves me correctly... was one of the hardest hit countries by the China Virus. Yet they are making ammo to be shipped to the US and around the world.

They are supposedly facing all of the same hardships that the Jason's faced as claimed in their videos yet Fiocchi can make enough ammo to ship around the world while the Jason's apparently can't get the job done. As proven by a 13 month long dry spell.

So...either one privately owned company in a virus ravaged country with metal shortages, worker shortages and insane lockdowns can do a better job supplying the world with ammo than two guys in the USA with roughly 14 ammo companies between them, the entire production force that a country of 320+ Million can offer, exempt from all lockdown mandates and not facing any metal shortages can do......or......the Jason's are lying.

As both the Jason's said in their videos...they are producing ammo 24/7/365 so they can't be experiencing a metal shortage.....they can't be out of trained workers and they can't be effected by lockdowns.

So where is all the ammo these people claim they are making going to? Why is a family owned company in Italy that's hampered in every way kicking the Jason's butts? Why is every brick-n-mortor ammo retailer in America getting 1 to 2 boxes of ammo a month while Gun Broker mainstay Gun Prime is getting pallet loads to sell online?

Only one answer.

There is no REAL ammo shortage in the USA. It's a manufactured shortage that was purposely created.

7 Million new gun owners can't buy up all the ammo stock in America if the ammo shortage started BEFORE the gun buying frenzy started.

Gun buying frenzy started in May 2020...ammo shortage started in February 2020.

People need to start being held accountable.

I wonder if the lumber companies are involved in this conspiracy? I needed some pressure treated 2x4's and it was like trying to find 9mm range ammo. The ones I ended up with were 300% more than the last time I bought some. I should have stocked up when they were cheep! My neighbor waited 6 months for a dryer too. I bet the appliance manufacturers jumped on the band wagon also. I think the real problem we are facing is a delay in the delivery of prescription psychotropic drugs.

Not to feed any conspiracy theories, but it HAS been a long time since I've seen a few brands, anywhere.

I used to not buy Federal. I bought S&B, Fiocchi, PPU, sometimes Geco. The first 3 listed used to be everywhere in 9mm; now they're nonexistent as far as I can tell.

Sounds about right. Heard a builder interviewed on a local radio show last week, he said that lumber cost to build a typical home has increased 320% over one year ago. I tried to buy a new recliner, 6 to 8 month wait...so my old broken one will do just fine. I even had to search for a pump rebuild kit for a Coleman lantern, and pay twice what it would have cost last year. As for Lucky Gunner, they are not gouging. They are simply passing on the legal bills acquired while exercising their 2nd amendment right to circumvent state laws and sell ammo online to minors.

Starting to make me wonder if we actually landed on the moon . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Sounds like the 1973-74 oil "crisis". I lived in NJ at the time, and commercial fishermen said there were tankers just sitting about 20 miles offshore, waiting for the prices to go up to deliver. (big refineries in NJ)

Funny thing was, as soon as the prices went up, there was plenty of oil. I guess people had to made to suffer some so they'd be glad to get it at any price. Wow, what an unusual and unique strategy (/sarc).

I think the fact that we shut down just about all of the incoming foreign trade for the last year may be the reason for not seeing any brands from other countries. Commerce in the US for the last year has been limited to food, for the most part. It's going to take a long time to catch up. Add 10 million or so new gun owners. Let's say that each one of them buys 2 boxes of ammo with their new gun, that's a billion more rounds just to satisfy just that demand on top of Military and public safety demand. You don't have to be a Wharton graduate to figure out that a shortage will be created. Of course it's much more fun to jump on the conspiracy theory!

I thought about explaining how the nature of international industrial shipping, customs delays etc, would cause 6 months or more of foreign production to hit the market all at once, vs domestic stuff having its daily or weekly production trickle out, but at this point you've clearly established yourself as either a troll, or someone incapable of even basic critical thinking and logical deduction.

Did you know....
Article 1
Section 9 of the Constitution of the United States.
No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported
from any state.

Well for starters, I would like to read the actual agreement........

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Forum consigliere

So, evidently Lucky Gunner is in full compliance with OK and AR law.

I can get you all you need-youi just need to be willing to go outside normal distribution channels

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Forum consigliere

Most of it is made right here in the US by hard working Americans.


"While the company still has roots in Italy and receive a portion of our products from our facility in Lecco, around 80% of Fiocchi brand products that are sold in the US market are loaded right here in Ozark [Missouri] or in our new facility near Little Rock Arkansas. "

About Us

I find this very interesting. What is the name of the Walmart executive that was fired and blew the whistle on Walmart and the Government conspiracy to stop the sale of ammunition?

I also would like to know what news sources have published this news and the links to look it up?

We did and made first contact with aliens. To avoid mass panic on earth a agreement was made by both species to keep their existence a secret. The other moon missions was for trade. The aliens provided high technology such as the microwave oven and cellular telephones in exchange for things the aliens need on their home world. The Apollo missions were ended after the trade agreement expired. The need for secretary is why humans have not returned to the moon even though with current technology it would be much easier than it was is the 60’s and 70’s.

He is a nut ball so it could be something he made up whole cloth, but My guess is he is referring to when Wal-Mart very publicly stated they where pulling guns and ammo off of the sales floor in many locations to keep it from being looted during civil unrest. It was still available to purchase in these locations it was just stored in the steel lock up cages in back instead of the glass cases on the floor, so it couldn't be smash and grabbed so easily civil unrest got too out of hand.

Well, the Yankee Gov’t isn’t levying or collecting the taxes we’re talking about, and there’s the 14th Amendment, so there’s that. A for effort, though . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

By your definition, I’m “in on it.” When I get my ammo from the black helicopter drop, how much do you want to buy?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Actually Muss by his definition more likely you are a potato head.
Sorry buy you can't lob a pitch like that in here without expecting it to be hit to the moon-speaking of which I understand that there is a small yet thriving colony of penguins up there. If you look closely at thr man in the moon, you will see brief flashes from the left eye which comes from the sun reflecting off of the periscope.

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Forum consigliere

AND... They have AMMO!!

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

I hate to risk derailing this informative and valuable thread, but I can't think of a better place to ask-
Should I store all my ammo wrapped in tin foil?

I REALLY need to know.

If you are afraid to reply because they might be listening use this code:
For affirmative, reply:
"The monkey has the football. I have a quarter."

For negative, reply:
"The penguin failed the background check."

Thanks in advance.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That sounds more plausible than anything I've read in this thread so far. There's a lot of tin foil hats in use to explain this ammo shortage. If nothing else it's entertaining.

Nanu Nanu y'all. Mork out.

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That's just somebody talkin.

At least three LGS have a good supply of ammo, and not the off/unknown brands. One LGS, whose owner I know quite well, is getting shipments of ammo in on a regular basis. But as is happening everywhere the prices are quite high. 9mm ball for $1.30 or so per round. Speer Gold Dot 9mm is $60-70 a box of 20, more than $3.00 per round.

They don't sell to Florida now and when the ammo shortage is over they want be selling anything to me or ,my family and friends then either. I would put them on the do not use list anyway just because they are price gouging now. If it was many products they would be charge with a crime for doing so.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it! I just knew the Penguin had to be behind all this. To the Batcave!

The penguin failed the background check . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Ah oh, my neighbor said she just shot the penguin. Soup's on at 4pm.

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Mike Maher #283

You realize your issue is that nobody makes tin foil any more. All we have is aluminum foil, which is not situated to disrupt conspiracy theories unless triple layered, and that information is not widely disseminated . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

The chair is against the wall… John has a long mustache.

End of transmission.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Who the heck are the Jasons? The only Jason I know wears a hockey mask and is rather handy with a blade.

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Release the Kraken

You beat me to it....FWIW... " According to a recent interview with Carlo Fiocchi, the head of Fiocchi America, more than 75% of the ammunition sold by Fiocchi in the United States is also manufactured in the United States at Fiocchi America's production facility in Ozark, Missouri.

What you typed gave me a good chuckle and reminded me of the codes the Free French were waiting for in " The Longest Day ".

Hmm, how about this one...

About this item
Heavy duty dead soft aluminum foil backing provides increased effectiveness for head shielding in demanding applications...

Wow! So much activity! Flying monkeys, penguins on the march, and BIFF! BAM! POW! in the Batcave!! All I wanted was a couple of boxes of .357 so that I could sight-in my scope and try out my new, unfired, Henry BB without feeling guilty about using up what little .357 I have on hand--and it's mostly SD loads.

I suspect some members of this board are also Friends of Venus:

Other than a few deals I got at PSA with free shipping and no sales tax, I have rarely seen anything online that I could not beat locally.

Now that most online charge sales tax to anything sold to Michigan and you have to pay by card in advance and I generally prefer no records on certain purchases, doubtful I'll buy online even from PSA.

Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie

The car has a hat.

Swimming in nickels pays off.