I just watched a video on YouTube, posted by 22plinkster April 7, 2021, about some new .22LR from Federal called Premium Punch. It's nickel shells, flat nosed lead & nickel, 29 gr. Rated 1070 FPS from a (I believe) 2 1/2" barrel pistol. About 10" into ballistic gel through a couple cotton sweatshirts.
Has anyone heard about this? This would be a good reason for me to buy my daughter a little Heritage Barkeep; she works in downtown Pittsburgh and has to catch a bus. Sometimes late hours, when all the weirdos are out. Yeah, it's a cheap gun, but i have one and it's simple to use and hits point of aim (Okay, paper plate!) at 25 yard line for me. I don't want to get her a semi until she learns a little more; this would be something anyhow.
If I can find the ammo, the gun will follow...heck I can give her mine.
Any comments about this ammo are welcome to me.

You know, having worked on many handgun killing cases over the course of my career, and having referred to DiMaio's Gunshot Wounds book several times, I have been impressed at the capability of .22 long rifle solid bullets. When they work, of course. However the greatest limitation with those rounds however seems to be the priming. Personally, I would be loath to use a .22 LR round for defensive purposes because of the prospect of ignition problems. My past experience with Federal rimfire rounds is that they are not as reliable as those by CCI, even though I believe they are owned by the same parent company.


It's laudable that you are concerned with your daughter's well-being. I trust that you have discussed the possibility of carrying a defensive handgun with her? My experience has been that the training that is required to become proficient and safe with a defensive handgun generally overcomes minimal issues with recoil. Has she expressed a willingness to take a class?

__________________
Now go make God proud...

No, we haven't talked about it yet. And, seriously, I'm not sure about whether or not I'm ready to let her carry a gun, even though she's gonna be 33 this July. She's just a tiny little spit-fire, about 125#, maybe, soakin' wet and I think about 5'3" tall. Before I get her any firearm she's gonna have to come out to the range with me and shoot some of my different calibers and pistols vs. revolvers. That's what I did with my step daughter and my brother-in-law. I ended up getting her a S&W EZ 380 this past Christmas. She has a fiance and woods up where they live where they can practice, etc. She's not gone to get her CCW permit which is fine with me. She can still defend herself in her apt. if need be. My BIL just wanted something to keep in his house. I found a nice M10-5. We shot a few of my pistols and he ended up bleeding from slide bite and just trying to load a magazine. He did well with my M10-8 and 15-3. My youngest girl, 20 y.o., is pretty proficient with the. 6" single action I got her 4 years ago. I'm definitely not getting Natasha anything until we do some shooting and I will sign her up for a class for professional training.
These new Federal cartridges just kinda caught my attention today. There are other small .22 wheel guns out there, but I need to know more. They say any gun is better than no gun, which makes sense; but too much power (like a .38 Spl.) in a lightweight could make for a bad combo. Thus, the training is essential; mandatory if I'm buying the gun for her. Mace/pepper spray is with her all the time for now. I'll have a talk with her for sure, Erich, and thank you for your input. Maybe I'll buy a couple boxes and see how they work in old reliable K22 from 1950 and a couple inexpensive .22s I have downstairs. Also, thanks on the heads up with the Federal .22LRs.

Personally, I think it’s a bad idea. I wouldn’t recommend a single action revolver or the .22 LR for personal protection.

I’m an NRA certified instructor and have taught a modified version of their Basics of Personal Protection in the Home course to a lot of students. The course is typically modified to meet the various State requirements to obtain a CPL. I’ll offer their recommendations and guidelines.

Anyone intending to use or carry a firearm for self defense needs to be proficient with the gun they choose. The NRAs want the student to be an intermediate to advanced level shooter, just to take the course. That doesn’t happen with one or two range visits. It’s a personal choice and the individual needs to be committed to practice and training. You can point her in the right direction and offer encouragement, but the decision is ultimately hers.

Whether she plans on carrying or not, an NRA course is a great idea. They teach safe handling and storage, ways to make your home safer, how not to be a victim, levels of awareness, self defense laws in your State, firearm/ammunition selection, human reaction to a high stress situation and dealing with the aftermath of a deadly force encounter. It’s money and time well spent.

The NRA recommends using the largest caliber firearm the shooter can accurately shoot, control and conceal. They also recommend a minimum of .38/9mm. A .22 LR makes an excellent training tool to develop skills and ease a shooter into more powerful cartridges, but it would be way down on my list for self defense. I’ve seen petite women who were near expert with a .45 auto or 12 gauge. That comes with desire, training and practice.

The purpose of shooting in a self defense situation is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. A lot of people have died from .22 gunshots, but it’s rarely instantaneous and a motivated attacker can still pose a serious threat after being hit multiple times. A shotgun is arguable the best choice for the home. I’d recommend a 20 gauge pump over a .22 to all but the most frail seniors.

Good luck to your daughter. I hope she never needs to defend herself or her family.

__________________
"I also cook."

.32 S&W Long. More powerful and reliable than any .22, doesn’t really shoot that much harder than a .22WMR.
There that was easy.
Personally I wouldn’t lose any sleep using the new Federal Punch .22LR or Hornaday CD 22WMR for HD but that’s just me.

Interesting comment on the .32 rounds. I keep a .327 LCR filled with plain old .32S&W in an out-of-sight location here. Sure, it prolly won’t stop a PCP-infused crazy, but it will give him a couple of things to think about while I retreat to another room. Plus, I will still have some hearing left to use during the ensuing many hours in a courtroom ...

Love to find a 2-3" .32 J-frame for my wife...... and a few hundred rounds of good self-defense ammo.

Reliability of the centerfire round is a big plus to me. So "her guns" are Smith K-frame .38s ..... 2" model 10 and a 4" model 15.

IMHO a hit with even a .38 wadcutter is better than a .22lr. I also believe in and preach a double or triple tap; which is not an easy thing with a single action !!!!!

The ammo sounds like ".22 Long +P" . Regular .22 Long has a 29 grain bullet rated at anywhere between 900 and 1050 fps, presumably varying by shorter/vented vs. longer barrels.

Probably better than a sharp stick but would look to more powerful options as noted above.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

For .22lr look at CCI "Velocitors"...40 gr 1435 fps

The only 22 that I know for sure that I can look at is what I have.
I have several thousand round of numerous brands including Federal.
But I don’t have any of this new Gee Whiz stuff.
If I ever see any at a reasonable price - I’ll try some!

Attached Images

B3489457-F657-4659-9DF7-AB40888CB03C.jpg (89.9 KB, 50 views)

__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER

Well the MSRP of $180 on the Barkeep is certainly appealing. My usual carry is a 642, so last year I bought a Taurus 942 snubbie as an inexpensive range practice gun. Paid $349. You might want to look at that instead. Double action, eight shots. I have been very impressed and happy with mine. And those CCI Velocitors look pretty serious.

If I was going to carry a .22 I would get a double action revolver that holds 8 or 9 bullets. If a revolver misfires it's easy to just pull the trigger again. H&R, HS and IJ have all made 8 and 9 shot revolvers that aren't expensive and I've found them to be reliable. Larry

I've got 3, S&W J frame .22LR revolvers. A M43C (DAO, 8shot), and 2, M34-1s, both 6 shot. Right now, she's unterested in any of my .38spcl J frames, steel or lightweight.

Not a problem for me either, I can shoot the .22LRs way better tha any of the .38spcl revolvers, even the all steel ones. All are snubbys BTW.

AFA the reliability of .22 rimfire, in over 20 years of using the rebranded SK Standard Plus as Wolf MT, I do not recall ever having a misfire, or, a dead spot in the rim. They just all went bang with the first hammer fall. Reliably enough for me, In a revolver, anyway.

I've got no problem with .22LR as EDC.

Rob

__________________
Strange days have found us

I’m not one of those who claim to shoot 500 rds a day every day of my life but in my almost 50 years on this planet I have never had 1 FTF 22LR. I think the FTF is overhyped.

.32 S&W Long- perfect for EDC or HD

Attached Images

	E242A84F-163F-474A-9570-DB8975E58517.jpg (41.3 KB, 27 views)
	D4C6B788-4476-4A33-82FB-CA0AE6C255E8.jpg (75.1 KB, 24 views)

I think you’ve been very lucky on that front.

I don't shoot a ton, but I find .22LR (usually cheap Federal stuff) in a revolver (M18) to misfire once in about 150 rounds. Likely, I have chambers needing a reaming, but I would NOT trust my life to a rimfire, unless it was the only gun I owned.

Interesting that GS never had a failure to fire with rimfires. Just lucky I guess. I know I have had more than my share. Just finished 1 550 pack of Winchesters nd they were horrible. Estimated 1 in 10 failed to fire. Remington thunderbolt a few years back had a terrible reputation for duds.

10% failure is definitely unacceptable! I will for sure remember that one. TY

I’m trying to remember how many if any 22 misfires I’ve had.
It’s not that many over years of popping 22s.
With 22s gun failing to function is probably the greater problem.
Especially with autos.
Here’s two Berettas. Never been a Beretta Fan, traded a few years ago for the 70s. Was surprised how much I like it!
It’s Uber Reliable.
As I have posted, the first Handgun I ever fired was a Pop Up Barrel Beretta.
So I bought the might Model 21A Mouse Gun, also effective on Rats.
The 21A hath not an extractor! It don’t need no stinking Extractor!
Blowback! When Cold and Clean, loaded with good ammo - CCI MiniMags,
It’s good to go!
So I shoot the first Mag, load and shoot the second Mag, etc.
I think I have 4. Probably can’t get through all 4 Mags without a failure to eject.
So can the 21A be used as a Defensive Weapon?
Maybe!
The 70S? Absolutely!

Attached Images

62D20053-304C-4EFE-B659-F40359451DCB.jpg (45.5 KB, 20 views)

__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER

All of you made very good suggestions, which is what I was basically looking for, and I thank you all. I have a .327Fed, and while that load is louder than my mom (RIP) at a Penguins hockey game back in the day, the .32 Long is a very pleasant cartridge; and I do have some pretty wicked-looking bullets on some of my .32s; I believe Hornady has some scary-looking SD cartridges. Also, .32 isn't that crazy to learn proficiency with. Of course, the double action is the way to go now that I think of it (thanks again, guys!) For only a couple hundred more Washingtons I'm pretty sure I can find a decent small-sized DA/SA revolver.
s&wchad, and others, these are answers I'm looking for. Again, I appreciate everyone's opinions.
Jeff T.

The only .22's I've had issues with is the Remington Thunderbolt. I no longer use it. My wife enjoys her 317 kit gun and has no fear when firing it.





8 rounds using Aguila 40 grains.

__________________
Mike
S&WCA #3065

Regarding the choice of gun; I'd look at a 8 round Ruger LCR .22.
We have Javelina down here and when I take my dog out at night (around 9:00) we've encountered them. We have been charged twice so the LCR goes with me loaded with Stingers. I put a round into one who turned and ran when hit, but I found the body the next morning about 60 feet away.
A Javelina is not a person but 8 rounds should make the point.

Have you seen the TWC and PWC the Punch makes in gelatin? Pretty impressive for a 22lr round. Penetration was about 16" due to the flat mose design. That is if I'm remembering right. There is a 22 nut on YouTube, 22zplinkster, who does happen to be sponsored in part by Federal who tested it in several guns and relative to its size, speed and power level it did perform ok. Is he pushing it as a great PD round. Of course not but if it's what you have then.... well, there could be worse ammo choices.

I’m in! I’m a Believer!
You have convinced me!
So where can I get some of this Punch?
I would especially like to try it in the sometimes finicky Beretta 21a.
Ain’t never seen Nickel plated 22.
But I don’t get out much!
UPDATE! I’m officially back ordered for 4 Boxes.
Should be putting those Babies down range about the time the Snow flies!

__________________
NRA LIFE MEMBER