In his book, The Snubbie Revolver, Ed Lovette praises the benefits of the J-frame snub in “ECQC” circumstances. He also makes the technical argument for the 158g +P lead hollow point as the most effective choice from a short barreled revolver.

I just came across some Federal Premium 158g +P Nyclad from a small shop in upstate NY. It hasn’t been produced since 2015 from what I can tell so it’s NOS. Bought 3 boxes.

Anyone have knowledge or experience with this load?

According to Amazon (where it's for sale) the book was written in 2007. The info is somewhat dated. The old "FBI load" of WW/Fed 158 LSWCHP used to be a favorite for snubbies, tests by Lucky Gunner and others show it is problematic in expansion in very short barrels. (There is a school of thought that says penetration is key, so if it doesn't expand and just penetrates, that is okay also). That has been my experience. Reference the NYCLAD, don't know. The old Fed 125 gr Nyclad HP was many years ago the "cat's meow" but it was also discontinued. There is other ammo out there that is geared to snubbies that are more efficient and optimized to the 2 or 2.5 inch barrel...Gold Dot Short Barrel comes to mind.

Shoot some of it and let us know!!

I used to like the Nyclad ammo. It's supposed to expand reliably from short barrels but not lead up your bore like a soft lead bullet. I'd use it now if I had it, but I quite chasing "the best performing ammo" years ago. I just want something that functions 100% (hopefully not an issue with your revolver) and shoots accurately and to point of aim when the pistol/revolver has fixed sights.

I would have bought all of it unless it was overpriced. I still have a few boxes, and consider it the best .38 Special ammo available, although there are a few other good offerings. I have no special knowledge or experience.

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Formerly Model520Fan

If the little 125 gr. Nyclad was good.......

the heavier 158 gr Nyclad has to be better, right ??

Nice find & enjoy.

Many years ago, I tested that load. I don't recall what revolver I used, but the bullet repeatedly passed throuch 36 inches of water (~23 inches of tissue) and kept on going. A note to Federal citing lot number got a reply that indicated that it'd been produced 10 years previous and there'd been a bullet redesign.

I may have had a similar issue with the 124 gr 9 mm round. Federal sent me a box of the newer stuff in 9 mm, but the .38 ammo never appeared. I've still got the 9 mm.

FWIW, the 125 gr "Chief's Special" load expanded to about .042 in or so, don't recall penetration. You can either view that as pathetic or par for the course from a standard pressure .38 in a 1 7/8 inch barrel.

Remember, it's where YOU put the bullet that's important.

Ed's book was just re-released as a 3rd edition with extensive updates. The views on the 158g +P LSWCHP were apparently still valid.

I should have mentioned this will be used in my 36-9 (pre-lock, +P capable) everyday carry. Will also work well in my LCR and Security Six 4".

My opinion is that it might have been a decent load in its day but now there are much better options and loads available. The Buffalo Bore +P 158 grain SWCHP-GC and the Speer 135 grain +P GDHP are my choices for the snub nosed 38 Spl. CCW.

I shoot the FBI load in my M10 and Chief's Special. I have 2 1/2 boxes of 158gr Nyclad ammo left and use it sparingly. I like them a lot because they are extremely accurate in my revolvers. IMO you were lucky to find them.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Many years ago, I bought a couple of boxes of 158gr Nyclad. I tested them in my 2" 60 and my 4" 10, shooting at 4 milk jugs stacked. Out of the 60, they would penetrate two, and stop in the third, not expanded. In the 10, they penetrated three, and stopped in the fourth, slightly expanded. I sold them and went to the then-new Silvertips. They always expanded in the second jug and stopped in the third.

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Heavily armed old man.

They should work as well as any other 158gr swchp +P. That is not a bad level of performance. I'd not feel undergunned with them. I use factory and handloaded 158gr hp as well as 135gr GDHPSB in my snubs. I feel good about all of the above........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

I have found that load for my S&W® M&P® BODYGUARD™ 38 w/Crimson Trace® Laser. POA/POI are IDENTICAL!

• https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/h...cal-defense#!/

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

The 1980s and 1990s brought a number of developments to the marketplace. Nyclad (nylon-coated swaged lead bullets), swaged lead bullets coated with Teflon (someone help me out with trade names), Winchester Silver-Tips (soft aluminum jackets), Black Talons, and others.

Some were intended to reduce airborne lead in indoor range facilities. Some were designed to provide higher velocities due to reduced friction in the bore. Some were designed to maximize terminal performance in soft tissue.

Some were vilified by mainstream media sources describing them as "cop killers" because of a reported ability to penetrate Kevlar soft body armor (Teflon coated bullets).

Some were vilified by investigative reporters as "flying razor blades" capable of inducing massive tissue destruction beyond the abilities of any trauma surgeon to repair.

Some were restricted to "law enforcement only" sales (Black Talons come to mind) to limit public outcry.

Some were quite good. Some were pumped up by advertising (and occasionally bad news coverage).

Nyclads had a generally good reputation for accuracy and terminal performance. As I recall, the original design emphasis was on minimizing airborne lead pollution for training purposes, but the terminal ballistics were pretty good as well.

The nylon coating on the lead bullet was to prevent leading .
Sort of the precursor to " powder coated" bullets .
I never understood why they thought the Nylon coating was such a big deal ... but perhaps being an accurate load , having good ballistics and not leading the barrel ... I would bet the ammo was cheaper than JHP ammo ... and cost can be a big factor .
I notice that plated bullets nudged jacketed out of a lot of sales because of cheaper cost ... And coated bullets have nudged plated out of some sales ... Why? ...yeah you guessed it coated are cheaper .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

FWIW, the Nyclad was introduced because NYPD had a slew of indoor ranges without what OSHA considered adequate ventilation. Allegedly, the primary focus was on reducing airborne lead. That softer, easier expanding lead cores could be used was kind of a side benefit. That nylon doesn't inhibit expansion-theoretically as I found out-like a copper jacket also didn't hurt. I doubt S&W jumped into the ammo market entirely to benefit the NYPD, they certainly weren't the only folks that had the range ventilation problem.

I remember the hoopla about how bullets "ripped through flesh at 82,800 (or more) revolutions per minute" (for a standard velocity 9 mm & 1-10 rifling twist). Didn't last long, as it wasn't hard to prove that that amounted to a little over 1 revoluntion in the average torso, not a Waring blender passage.

The only commercial teflon coated bullets I'm aware of were special loads very strictly limited to sworn law enforcement sales and the bullets were lathe turned architectural bronze. The manufacturer was KTW (took quite awhile to remember), but the stuff was like $5 a round back in the 1960's. The teflon was for bore lubrication and lower pressures, but the media jumped on the idea that you could coat a marshmellow with teflon and blow through a brick wall. NOT! The concept was to allow street cops to defeat bad guys with body armor/in cars without having to upgrade from their .38's & standard pressure ammo.

The media ignored the enhanced penetration loads Remington & Winchester had been producing since the 1930's (that didn't hold a candle to the KTW product) and whomped up the "cop killer bullets" label despite the fact that no LEOs were ever killed with one SFAIK.

It's a good load, as posted earlier, I'd have bought it all if affordable. I have quite a few boxes of the 125 grain SWCHP standard pressure load. And a few full boxes of the .357 Magnum SWCHP.

The Snubby Revolver, 3rd Edition - Snub Noir

Don't know about the WW or the Federal, but a few years ago Remington made a change in their lead alloy. It had expanded well when it was softer, but not so well with the harder stuff. Reason given was to reduce leading IIRC.

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Merle, retired
western PA

The 125 gr Nyclad was unique , and still legandary .

Back in the day , the 158 Nyclad was considered so- so performer compared to the big 4 plain 158 LHP .

I just found 1 box of the standard pressure 125gr Nyclan .38 Special ammo at a gun show. The guy sold me the box of 50 for only $20. I quickly asking d him if he had more but unfortunately he did not, not even the 158gr Nyclad ammo. Hey, 1 box is better than none. I still have 2 1/2 boxes of the 158gr ammo...

I carry the Nyclad ammo in my Chief's Special too. It's accurate for me.

I carry 135gr Speer GDHP ammo in my S&W M442 daily.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

My old Model 12 snubby is loaded up with the standard pressure 125 gr. Nyclad HPs. I've scrounged up about 100 rounds of it and it's very accurate. There was a website around that published one stop percentages of various rounds and the 125 gr. Nyclad HPs were #1 in standard pressure 38 special. The 158 gr. +Ps didn't fare as well but ranked respectable. In a snubby built to handle +P you just can't beat the 135 gr. Speer for short barrel JHP.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

The heavy 38 special 158 bullet is a great bullet weigh for lots of penetration
year around, no matter the conditions.

Over the last three years I have been doing a lot of test and loading of the
125, 130 and 135 gr JHP bullets that are used in the snub nose 38 revolvers.

In all my test, for a load that shots for me at POA, penetrats enough, plus
has good bullet expansion and a recoil that can be handled for a second or third back up shot,
if needed, on target, with a light J frame.......

I have settled on the 135 Gold Dot if you can handle the recoil or......
use the 130gr Federal HST load, as my minimal SD ammo.

Of course if you own a "Heavy" K frame...........
any ammo will work.

I got my first box of “FBI ammo” in about 1979 from an FBI agent I met… a full box minus six rounds for him to get home on. I shot up most of that over the next decade, but have replenished as possible from whatever sources I could find (a few rounds at a time usually). I now have most of a box that is currently reserved for “special occasions” with my Model 60-4. I consider that just about the perfect combination for CCW.

Froggie

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree 100%.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I carry my .38 often and shoot it at the range to stay proficient, I carry Federals HST 130gr.

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And ALWAYS test your ammo by running it through your EDC. You'll prolly have to spring for a full box or 2, but it is necessary IMHO. I bought 14 boxes of Federal LHP +P ammo 10 years ago at a close out $. I found to my dismay that the bullets would pull out of the cases when fired in a lightweight snub. Good recipe for jamming a SD gun when things go south. No problem in a steel frame K.

Another time, I loaded the Heavy Duty I had been testing at the range with R-P 125gr JHP for the trip home, in addition to my regular EDC. At home, I found one round had the primer loaded sideways. Mrs. Kaaskop's little boy had not inspected the rounds before loading. Can't be too careful...

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I went through a lot of 125 gr Nyclad in my 649, 36, 66 in the 1990's (targets and carry in the J's). It was pretty accurate. I used the last of it 10 years or so ago. I have not seen it in the secondary market for a long time.

I bought a coupla cases of that Federal SWC ammo after it was discussed on this board. I set up my crimp die with a medium stiff crimp and ran them all through it. Put them back in the original packing and added them to my stash. +P lhp for less than practice ammo and I got free shipping........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Me too. I have a couple of boxes still on hand for my Mod 12's, and my mid '60's production Colt Agent.

Me too..........

I like the 135 in my 38's and even go as far as to take the factory ammo
and weigh each one and set the heaviest ones as my SD ammo with the
lighter ones as my practice ammo..... being it less powder or bullet.

I used this round in my issued Model 15 to free a hostage from his knife wielding captor in the early ‘80s. It worked.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)