I did not write that I did not care. I do not use Russian ammo as I consider it junk. For those that do use it, then this ban is a very large problem. I shoot the best ammo that I can make. At the rate I shoot I should be able to last about 10 years or so. The same for rimfire. Remember I shoot three day a week. Like I wrote I feel bad for those that did not have the forethought or the funds to lay in a goodly supply.

At some point the prices are going to come down. The buying at the panic prices of the last year can not last, unless folks are stupider than I think (though sometimes I wonder). Folks have just got to get some sense in their heads. All the ammo companies are doing is laughing at the public because of the profits they are giving these companies.

I worry more about what the government is going to do or try to do to the public that buys firearms and ammunition (legally). That is what we should be more concerned with. the giving away of handouts to the folks on the "public dole" and the illegals is what I am truly worried about.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

There are lots of folks that just come out and blast away. No real thought as to accuracy is in their heads. At our county range this is evidenced by all the holes in the target carriages, overheads, baffles and even the benches. Their targets look like swiss cheese and their weapons handling is not much better than the Taliban. Good thing we have at least two range officers on each line trying to keep it safe.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

To paraphrase Pastor Niemöller...

First they banned Russian ammo, and I did not speak out—because I don't shoot Russian ammo.

Then they banned "assault rifles", and I did not speak out— because I don't own "assault rifles"

Then they banned small concealable handguns (pocket rockets), and I did not speak out—because don't carry a firearm.

Then they came to bann my firearms-and there was no one left to speak for me.

Little by little, chip by chip, inch by inch, they are looking to end the 2nd. If we only fight for what we "like" we are giving them and easier path.

I mentioned no one in my post.

I have been tempted to buy the Russian steel case ammo during this latest ammo drought. Quality control distrust has kept me from running their less expensive ammo through my much more expensive guns.
The major impact of this ban is going to fall upon the shoulders of the American citizens who either don't share my QC distrust or who simply buy the most affordable ammo for whatever reasons. Another impact could very well be manufacturers taking advantage of the reduced choices market to maximize their profit margins.
The reloading sectors will be seeing increased rookie reloader purchases and increased purchases from veteran reloaders.

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U.S. Coast Guard, retired CPO

Chief,

I have to agree with you. The only ones I see losing in this whole deal is the end consumer (read us). The manufacturers, distributors and the store owners (Mom & Pop or Big Box), they all will make a bigger profit.

I do worry about loosing places to shoot. The lack of shooting public is liable to cause ranges to close. Our local range has 160,000 registered users (maybe a quarter of those actually use the range yearly). But where I use to see 50 or so a day, I now see less that 20.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I shoot at an unsupervised private rang. Probably 2x steel case goes into the buckets as brass. That was before the election and covid. Now there's no brass but still plenty of steel case. Lots of it never gets picked up by the slobs that shoot it. It's usually the work parties that have to clean it up.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Yet Biden enabled the Russians to sell as much Natural Gas to the Germans as they will take. This will finance the Russian War Machine much more than allowing Americans to buy ammunition for their Eastern Block weapons.

Tell them to get a rolling magnet like roofers use for picking up roofing nails. Our range uses the heck out of the couple that they have. They use them in front of the shooting bench's and behind the bench's for sitting on behind the lines. All other brass/steel cases in between are the responsibility of the shooter. One or two passes usually gets all the steel cases. Been used to find missing gun parts too!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Knowing the Russians they'll just export it somewhere else and repackage it. Probably one of the 'stans.

None of my import Russian rifles shoot so poorly with import ammo that I would want to be in front of them in the hands of someone wanting to do me harm. BTDT.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Although I don't use any, I don't have an issue with steel or aluminum cased ammo if that's what you want to use. But I have never used any Russian-made ammo as a matter of principle. Nor do I have any Russian firearms.

I hit six stops in a reasonably short circuit today.
Came home with about a case of russkie steel goodness, LOL.
Gotta feed the girls once in a while.

Besides, I still think the SKS makes a great defensive rifle.
Lot less evil-lookin' than an AK if a prosecutor wants to waive
it around in front of a jury.

I don't know whether this will hurt Russia or not.

It will hurt the American shooters who have ComBloc firearms.

I have a Soviet SKS, CZ52, CZ527 in 7.62x39, P64, Bulgarian Makarov, Yugo Tokarev, and an East German AKM.

Luckily I have enough steel cased ammo to keep them fed for a long time.

Generally I don't fire steel cased ammo in guns designed to fire brass ammo, and vice versa.

I question the motive here.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

Was thinking that.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I bought a Chinese SKS eons ago for $69. Later I bought a Yugo model. Both are extremely accurate considering what they were designed for. I also have a few AK models. All are 100% reliable with any ammo I feed it with.

I load my own and those loads are superior to everything else. Nevertheless, when it was on sale real cheep I bought 2 cases of Russian steel cased 7.62x39. It was all 100% fire and the accuracy was acceptable as well.

Thus,.....I dispute all of the negative comments about SKSs and Ruskie ammo.

Were you unaware that steel cased ammo from Eastern Europe is also made in 9mm, .45ACP, .223, .308 and .30-'06? (and others too)

It is going to drive the price of brass cased ammo up a fair bit. The non-Russian plants will hopefully go into overdrive speed.

If you are training and running drills, steel works just fine. Even if you replace your AR barrel and bolt every 6,500 rounds, you are still WAY ahead money wise. And semi-auto pistol barrels are usually between $100 and $200, and a 5 minute swap at most. I just got a factory .357 SIG barrel for my P229 in a sealed factory package delivered for $125.

This is not about Russia, this is about ammo. All the guys shooting Russian are now going to be buying the same ammo as the guys that don’t shoot Russian.

Add in all the new gun purchasers that don’t know what ammo used to cost and don’t care that some day the “prices will have to come down”

The government gets all the guns and ammo it wants but feels the need to restrict what we can get. What should that tell you?

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-Matt

Biden bans Russian ammo**¦ What will it ACTUALLY mean for gun owners?**¦ - YouTube

The last I knew, Wolf Gold was manufactured in Taiwan. Has that changed?

(And, before that, wasn't it made by Prvi Partizan in Serbia?)

Great news, 40% of the ammunition sold in this country is being removed from the market causing everyone to pay more when the steel case shooters start shooting brass out of necessity.

Reloaders will feel the pinch as well.

The government finding a way to force price increases and shortages onto ammunition is no call for celebration.

Source? ...

Here's one:

Russian Ammunition Imports Halted, May Send Demand, Prices a

Absolutely no reason for rejoicing over higher prices and limited availability due to shortages.

Regardless of whether you use any Russian ammo, steel cased or not, there is nothing good about more restrictions placed on American gun owners. How Russia deals with one of their convicted criminals that has gained worldwide media attention as some kind of an opposition martyr is none of America’s business.

During WW2, the US was experimenting on steel cased .30 Carbine ammunition. I have a box of it somewhere. I guess we now know why it didn't go into general production.

Why not keep the money at home and you all get together and start manufacturing that ammo etc here with your entrepreneurial spirit.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I know we're not to discuss politics, so I will try to keep this as politically generic and firearm-related as possible:

This does not punish Russia.
They are providing a desired goods that our civilian population wants; not for armed insurrection but for recreational shooting.

Selling it to you and me, keeps it out of the hands of other countries and groups that would do far more than shoot paper and steel targets. There's a lot of such places, full of oil and drug money, that would gladly buy all this up. This includes a certain country in Asia that now has a bunch of new M4's; and the Russians make ammo in all useful calibers.

So. the Russians will shrug, say OK, and sell it to them instead. And then our government will yell and scream about it, and spend money addressing that, while they had already addressed the problem free of charge, by letting it's civilian population buy and shoot it.

So the question is, who are they really punishing, and why?

Hasn't the Soviet Union/Russia been funding our adversaries since the Korean war, and most conflicts since then.
Never met a Russian Sea Captain or crew that didn't want to stay here but returned for their families safety still in Russia.
As NCOIC of burial detail, for a short time in the late '60s,
I wonder how many young men we buried were chock full of Soviet bullets etc etc.
All closed coffins.

Wild World for sure.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I believe that the wolf 22lr is made now in Germany. Never found it on the open market to rest in my 22's. Frank

It’s just like Clinton’s ban on Chinese guns and ammo. Thinly disguised gun control.

I hear Afghanistan just obtained a mountain of brass cased 5.56 & 9MM NATO.

Yes, I'm aware of the steel cased ammo in American calibers being available.

I don't shoot them, but for someone who does, this ban will be a PITA, and will drive up ammo prices across the board.

Is this ban to punish Russia. or the American gun owner?

That's why I said that I question the motive.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

The U.S. also toyed with steel cased .45 ACP ammo for a while. I think it is mostly headstamped EC 1943 (IIRC).

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Even though I cast my own bullets and reload for everything it will still affect me.
I bought a case of Wolf 223 back in 2000 and still have most of it. That stuff is no fun to shoot. It don't go where I aim it. My reloads go where I aim them.
Everyone likes really cheap plinking grade handgun ammo.

Really good question here.

It would be nice to think US ammo companies will benefit from this “protectionism” but the bigger ones are on record saying they couldn’t or wouldn’t expand production. Maybe they’ll change their tune, too little and too late.

I wonder who is responsible for that? Surely not the same SJ that is banning steel cased ammo in the US in the name of individual rights

Alex Jones. Just check.

Vast quantites of steel cased .30 Carbine (and also .45 ACP) were made and used by the US military during WWII, so it was in no way experimental. After the war, in the Korean War era, some was also made by Frankford Arsenal. And of course the Russians also made steel-cased .30 Carbine. There is a lot of it still around.

I go to the range at least twice a week and my experience mirrors yours in that both indoor and outdoor ranges have been suffering a huge decline in business which I attribute to both the scarcity and cost of what used to be inexpensive range ammo.

Folks can’t find ammo, but even when they do, they can’t afford to buy it in sufficient quantity to justify shooting at the ranges, and now due to the ban on Russian imports, prices are going to increase on all ammo even more..much more.

Biden’s handlers have very cleverly mounted an oblique attack on all American shooting enthusiasts, regardless of their chosen firearms or ammunition.

The duplicitous Russian ammunition ban has hurt us all, and from what I’m witnessing, I’m worried about the ability of our shooting ranges to remain in business due to the lack of paying customers.

There is absolutely no up side to what Biden has done.

None.

I go to a range that charges an annual membership fee, so the less the range gets used, the less maintenance expense they have. If membership numbers decline, that’s a problem. But I’ll be renewing next year regardless.

Pic of some steel case ammo from '43.
Dad volunteered for the 10th Mountain when it was formed and since he was raised in the radio business he was assigned to HQ and named "Radio".
The 30Cal we still have is all brass cased.

He and his buddies drilled a hole in those 45s and carried them on their key chains for the rest of their lives.
Unfired Primers were still in and when this 9 year old asked them how they did that they just smiled.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Wolf .22 match ammunition was made in The Lapua Plant in Germany and was outstanding ammunition.

It’s currently being manufactured for Wolf by ELEY in Britain, but I haven’t shot any so I can’t compare it to the German Lapua product.

I see the thread over on TheHighRoad discussing this topic has been locked, too much politics. I hope this one doesn't suffer the same fate, so let's try to keep it shooter-oriented:

No, most Russian steel-cased ammo is not match-grade. You very likely won't get your best groups from a benchrest with them.

Extreme accuracy isn't the only measure of proficiency with one's firearms. Casual shooting, "plinking" as we like to call it, maintains a level of familiarity with your gun. It forms and enhances your shooting techniques (good or bad); the more you do something, the more it becomes muscle memory and habit.

I may not be able to hit a dime at 100 meters with Tula out of a rifle, or at 25 meters from a pistol. Check that- no maybe about it, I can't. I can't do that with Federal or Fiocchi brass, either. I don't shoot by having the firearm in a secure, viselike brace, trying to wring out the ultimate mechanical accuracy.

But I can repeatedly hit a target the size of an ammo box (or box of cigarettes, or cell phone) at 15 meters shooting a pistol offhand, and I can hit a pizza box at 100 yds approx with my rifles (as in, I can pick my rifle up, acquire the target with iron sights while standing or kneeling, and hit it). With iron sights and my eyes, that's about as good as I get. I'm not using a scope.

I can do it with Tula, can do it with PPU, Fiocchi or other stuff.
I can do it, because I've shot them enough to obtain reasonable practical familiarity with the gun.

For some calibers, I have a comfortable amount of "good brass" ammo stocked up. For others, I don't. Either I got into that caliber recently, or the cost of new ammo was too high. Cheap ammo helps alleviate that; cheap new steel, or cheap surplus. Tula isn't corrosive, while lots of surplus is. And despite all complaints, Tula is still going to go bang; not all surplus is totally reliable after so many years.
I'm better shooting Romanian steel Mauser stuff, than playing with Iranian surplus that may hangfire or just not even go off.

Reloading could be an answer, but that's an investment too. Nobody wants to bang on an entry-level Lee Loader kit for more than a few rds. Plus you need a basically dedicated workspace, if you're going to set up a serious reloading arrangement. Not all of us have that space, kids take up room. Sometimes storage takes all the room we have.
And then, consider the investment in calibers, especially if you like milsurp rifles. 7.65 Argentine isn't 8mm Mauser, 7.62 NATO, or x39 or x54R. Those are all '30 caliber', along with 30-30 for the necessary levergun. But you can't reload more than one with that set of dies as I understand, and you can't share bullets etc across the board.
And that's not even addressing what a roller-delayed blowback will do to cases; ain't no point in trying to reload for that rifle.

For the calibers that Russia and others make in steel, they are great options for plinking. Even for cheap and common pistol calibers, if they run, you're good right now.
I don't have "safe queens", each firearm I own, I want to shoot. As affordably as possible. If I can shoot 223 for 30 cents a rd, the increased range time will offset that, and I will still have my stored brass for later.

A long time ago I had a couple of Russian 91/30's (sniper and straight rifle) and a 44. We had steel ammo and had trouble extracting the spent steel cased ammo. Tried polishing the chambers and cleaning the ammo, no joy. Switched to brass cases and they got better. Sold them as interests were elsewhere. Bought a NIB SKS for $100 about five years ago and picked up 2K of brass cased 7.62 X 39 and it all sets in the back of my gun cabinet (for a rainy day).

Since the importation ban is a moot point now. There is not much we can do about it. I hate to say that, but that is where it is at. Hopefully the Serbs or someone picks up the slack for folks.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

As far as I understand it, current importation permits will be honored, until they have to be renewed. That, of course, is just speculation.

As I further understand it, permits appear to be valid for 1 year. This ban seems to take effect starting Sept 7. So...

things that recently got approved, should have a little time, maybe can make another couple shipments. it's possible (however unlikely) that a permit can be finalized prior to the cutoff date, for a "last run".

We all know Wolf, Tula, etc. Of course, Century has Red Army Standard, another large importer of such stuff.

I'm somewhat curious about Maxxtech, and their Essential Steel line. I've seen Maxxtech before, but it was cheapo brass 9mm in a clear plastic container at the time (think it was Croatian stuff).
The Essential Steel, had never seen before. Others identified it as Vympel manufactured, which previously had been labelled as Golden Tiger in 223. Like I said, I hadn't seen that stuff before July in that packaging; so maybe Maxxtech has time for some more imports before it expires.

For practical purposes, I suspect the 7.62x39 is going to be in high demand, it MAY be worth price-shopping brass PPU and stuff like that. Obviously any 5.45 will be priced like it's gold, since Russian appears to be the only source there.
223 will likely be hot, too; since it's a bulk munition for most folks' purposes.

I'm eyeballing the 308 ammo; most folks don't want steel in that (where it runs great in mine). I was able to snag some at 50 cts a rd, which should be favorable in price to brass even if the panic ever passes. If I can find more, I might get it. That, and if some Makarov comes down the pipe at favorable prices; there are European options for that.

Can we import ammo from Afghanistan? I hear they recently came into a large quantity of quality ammo.

There is not a thing wrong with Russian ammo. It fires 100% of the time.
It used to be cheap enough that I rarely reloaded for my AKM and SKS rifles, but I suppose that will change soon.

I have shot a lot of the 9mm steel case bi metal out of my M&P and the .45 out of 1911's all with very respectable results. I bought a bunch of it really cheap quite awhile ago, so I would hate to see it go. I also do not like the 2A implications as stated before.

I am a re-loader though, so I have 3 levels of ammo, steel case plinking stuff, brass cased plinking and serious home defense, then those I roll myself. All depends on what tool I need for the job right ?