I just read that the Biden Admin. has banned the import of Russian weapons and ammo. Hmmm?

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No baby we aint

Where’d you read that/what source? Hadn’t heard that yet...

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NRA Life Member

I thought Russian guns had been sanctioned for a while.

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Release the Kraken

It is on AMMOLAND. Looks like it takes effect on Sept. 7 and will last at least 1 year.

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No baby we aint

Whaaaaaaaaat????

I won't be able to send my
dollars to Moscow any more?

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Ubi Est Mea

Just came across this; apparently happened today (8/20/21). New wave of bans on Russian stuff, which now includes ammunition, stated a minimum of 12 months. Tied to a political situation, one I don't wish to discuss as that's taboo (and I know little about the event in question anyway).

But the impact will be huge for recreational shooters. Be honest, how many folks have been burning through a lot of the premium brass stuff this past year? Hard to get reloading components, so that hasn't been a great option either.

I will lay this out right here- end of July, I decided to stock up a little more, as some (Russian) ammo prices were closing in on sane levels. Case of Tula 7.62x39, $270. Case of Maxxtech (Vympel), 1k of 223, $325. That was from a site with free shipping, so that was the price it cost me.
It wasn't quite the price I wanted, but it was close enough, and I decided I would top off the tank, so to speak. Frankly, I was more concerned that the recent spike in Covid would trigger a new panic buy, and I wanted to get some fresh stuff before it jumped again.

I'm glad I did... appears the days of cheap Tula, Wolf, Brown or Silver Bear, Red Army Standard, Monarch (Academy), etc: all gone. Not just those calibers, but across the board. This stuff has never been seen as match grade or high quality, but for plinking it was great for the price.

My wife told me the same thing today. I don't think Biden could think of this himself. I wonder what will be accomplished by the ban. We must be punishing Russia for something.

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Kevin in Oregon

I don't believe its about punishing the Russians.

It's all about Navalny and Novichok.

Fact Sheet: United States Imposes Additional Costs on Russia for the Poisoning of Aleksey Navalny - United States Department of State

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Release the Kraken

Do we get anything else of significance from there? Gillette has a big razor blade factory in st. Petersburg.

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Common sense isn't so common.

This! Sanctions were promised and the gun/ammo
thing is but one small part of U.S. leverage on
Moscow. Kremlin assets are the chief target.

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Ubi Est Mea

Personally, if this is true, I consider it good news!

Every range that I know of that allows either public access or unsupervised member access is littered with the worthless steel cases from this junk.
I am sure there are safe and responsible shooters, like the OP, who use the Russian stuff for fun.
But, it seems that anytime somebody sneaks an old TV, computer, or other household item onto the range to shoot up, there's a pile of those Russian steel cases that are left behind as well.
Countless times I've seen guys show up, blast through 100 rds or so of this Russian stuff, then quickly grab their stuff and drive off, leaving quite the mess in their wake.
In these parts, there have been a number of range closures due to the immense amount of litter and destruction, in no small part involving voluminous quantities of fired Russian steel cases (not to mention a lot of misfires from defects!).
I make an effort to clean up after these slobs, so it doesn't get out of hand, or get more ranges shut down.
Again, I'm sure there's "good guys" that like this stuff.
But, if this ban puts the kibosh on the slobs, then all I have to say is:
Good riddance!

These trashy folks won't cease to leave their target litter behind because cheap ammo disappears. They will continue to trash the ranges with the only change being they now clean the area of cases because they had to take up handloading to offset the cost of the more expensive American brass stuff.
Our loss of Russian ammo will be a serious loss to shooters...

Are there any links to this info online?

There are steel-cased manufacturers outside Russia. They might take up the slack eventually.

I have brass catchers on my AR rifles.

Who says the ammo shortage is not Gov't. produced?

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Bill

Fact Sheet: United States Imposes Additional Costs on Russia for the Poisoning of Aleksey Navalny - United States Department of State

I do not shoot steel case ammo but this is likely going to raise the price of the brass case ammo I do shoot, at least in the short run.

I would say it's so the Taliban would have the market to themselves, but they now have so many abandoned US guns to select from now.

There are slobs everywhere. Even at my closely monitored club.
But yes. This ban won't hurt me personally. Still, I would like to have the option to buy this stuff.

It don’t bother me at all, now let’s stop all Chinese imports too.

Picking up steel cases, your own or litter left by slobs, is easy. At Harbor Freight buy a magnet made for picking up nails at construction sites. The magnet is inside a plastic cylinder at the end of a long tube. At the top of the tube there is a D shaped handle. Inside the D there is a magnet lifter that pulls the magnet up letting the steel trash fall away. When you let go a spring pushes the magnet back down. It's been awhile but mine was under $15.

In general, I have little use for steel-cased ammo. BUT, many other people do. This will just increase market pressure on brass-cased ammo and handloading components. When products are already in short supply, banning a viable source only makes the situation worse.

Was shooting some kind of foreign steel-case in a friends Mini-30 last week... every 5th or 6th round was a dud.

Unless you make your own reloading components, this will effect you at some level.

Russian steel-cased is the cheapest thing on the market, in any caliber it's made in. Other countries make it too, but not in the bulk the Russians do.

"But I only shoot my reloads"... like I said, if you MAKE your own components, you're fine. But if you rely on primers, you are tied to market prices. Primers are very scarce, and have jumped in price. You run out of primers, you run out of ammo.

"But I only shoot brass new manufactured ammo"... consider this: the lowest priced ammo on the market was steel-cased, and that was selling to others besides you. Those other people have now been cut off, and they can either quit shooting, or start buying brass-cased ammo. The same stuff you look for, that's now in higher demand.

Also, steel-cased IS the cheapest option. Brass is better, nobody denies that. But for 'cheap' brass to sell, it still needed to stay within a certain distance of the lowest priced stuff. Winchester White Box hasn't been elite stuff, I would never pay 2x the price of Tula for it. So they kept it affordable.
That's no longer a concern to Winchester; Tula isn't available to take market share if they raise the prices. They're now the lowest priced option.

I handload everything so have had virtually no experience with any Russian products except for some .22 ammo years ago. Some of that was trash, some of it good.

I had no idea the Russian ammo and other products were so popular with US shooters. Is is strictly price that accounts for the popularity?

Here is the actual press release from the State Department. It details the reasons behind the ban, but it's not as detailed as the fact sheet posted earlier . . .

U.S. Imposes Additional Costs on Russia for Aleksey Navalny Poisoning - United States Department of State

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Mini 30... 7.62x39, right?

Go explore some of the "ARs in 7.62x39" threads on other guns forums. The ammo isn't a dud, it has harder berdan primers.

I have SKS's, and I recently put together an inexpensive AR in that caliber.
I bought the correct, recommended magazines (C Product Duramags), zero issues from those. The infamous "magazine issue" is simply people trying to use bigger ammo in standard mags, it would bind up. With the Duramags, I've had smooth feeds.

Re the primers- initially, I would have a failure to fire, but then that rd would shoot in my SKS.
The prescribed fix was to A) get an "enhanced firing pin", with the tip slightly more protuding when fired; and B) get stronger hammer springs if A) didn't fix it.

I bought an $11 firing pin, problem solved. Never needed to address the springs. My cheapo Bear Creek Armory upper with the enhanced pin is totally reliable now with Tula, Barnaul, Wolf, etc. And since I have had the SKS a long time, I had some ammo that was fairly old... no issue at all. My understanding is, these hard primers are also the most reliable long-term primers.

My indoor range doesn't allow steel or aluminum. Only because it contaminates the brass for recycling. They just sell their brass for scrap but it's something.

The flip side is they not only don't care how much you pick up, the RSO's will sweep it to the wall for you keeping it as separated by caliber as best they can. When I shoot 9mm I'll shoot 100 and come home with 400, plus a half a box of .45, another half a box of .380, plus a few stray cases of other calibers like .40 or .32 ACP. It's usually pretty busy but I've never seen another shooter picking up brass. Which I find odd. No problem, if it's something I shoot I'll take it.

But I'll agree that any loss of supply is not a good thing.

Price and availability, yes; for the most part.

If your AR, for example, can shoot steel 223 without issue, and it's primarily a fun gun for plinking, it's financially smarter to shoot steel.

Lucky Gunner did a serious torture test, 10,000 rds over 2 days, trying several brands of steel, and 1 gun shot Federal brass. 1 gun dedicated to each brand.
Some reports of "problems"; the Tula gun had problems after around 5k or so, but they finished it off with another gun (not included in the tests).
Others listed some failures, but I think the number was around 16 or so (out of 10K). So, 1-2 bad rds out of a case.
They reported that the barrels were shot out on the steel-cased at the end, while the Federal gun was still fine. But they also pointed out- the difference in cost of ammo meant they had saved enough to buy more barrels and still come out ahead. And that was pre-panic prices, which were better.

In today's market, I could find 223 steel-cased ammo for around $350 a case, new brass (and it's not Federal, it's Igman or PPU) for around $500. That's $150 a case. I built my most recent cheap AR for about $400. So, 3 cases of ammo- shooting steel, I save enough to buy not just a new barrel, I could build another gun.

Not to overload this post, but there are other reasons to buy steel, too. Steel 308 (7.62 NATO), if you have an AR or a FAL it's not a big issue, one way or the other. Steel is cheaper but dirtier, and not as precise (but people were still hitting targets, so it's not awful).
But if you have a roller-delayed rifle (HK, PTR, Cetme etc), those beat the living **** out of the cases. I have a Cetme-based C308 (I know, cheap Century ****, yada yada)... sources confirm Century brought in PTR for the C308, and mine has been solid. 100% function with steel-cased. Occasional fail to eject with brass- because it has a fluted chamber, and the Armscor brass I had would occasionally expand and get stuck in the flutes. I've looked at the cases, thats what happened.

For something like 9x18 Makarov, I could occasionally find Geco or PPU brass, but those were designed around steel and the cheaper Wolf or Tula shot well.

The 9x18 is where a ban would hurt the most I think. One rarely sees brass 9x18 and it's a whole lot more expensive. If you reload it's pretty easy to make brass 9x18 cases from 9x19.

I make mine. My PA-63 had a horrible trigger pull. A spring kit fixed that nicely but ignition is unreliable with steel case ammo. With American primers in converted 9mm Lugar brass it's 100%.

Importing guns and ammo from China was banned in 1993.

I used to shoot a lot of Norinco 5.56 and 9mm in the late 80s and early 90s. Unlike most of the stuff from Russia it was all brass case. It was competitively priced and my only complaint with it was the 5.56 ammo was either a little hot or used too slow of a powder. More muzzle blast than other ammo in that caliber, It had crimped in primers so there was an extra step if you wanted to reload it but you could reload it if you wanted to.

I never had much interest in them at the time but now I wish I had bought at least one of those $89 SKS rifles from China when I had the chance.

I wasn’t just referring to ammo and firearms.

Over the years, I've bought Fiocchi, Geco, and most recently PPU brass Mak. I've also had the Hornady stuff.

Probably a couple bucks more per box, as I wouldn't go for much more (the Hornady was an early buy, before I knew better).

It also goes back to another bugaboo issue we may face- almost all of my Mak ammo has been online. Academy occasionally had Monarch (Russian steel) at decent prices.

You didn't miss out on much by not getting an SKS. I bought two when they were cheap along with a tin of 550 rounds of ammo; don't know where that was manufactured but cast bullet loads were more accurate. The SKS is probably fine for it's designed purpose, but an incredibly crude gun for anything else. If you can afford a gun, you can afford something better than an SKS.

I bought a Yugo SKS for about $75 many years ago. Sold it later for 2 or 3 times my cost.

It was fun to shoot.

I don't shoot the Russian ammo anymore because I've found most of it the be dirty- leaving lots of residue in my firearm. Doesn't seem to burn completely.
Only problem to me with this ban, is it will give American producers another reason to claim a "shortage" and keep prices high.

I will miss the steel cased 308 ammo. It's good stuff for shooting in Indian 7.62 NATO rifles with their sometimes questionable chamber dimensions and headspace.

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Release the Kraken

Yes. All ammo manufacturers, except the Russians, are secretly anti second amendment, and willing to go out of business to help strip us of our rights.
They set up these companies years ago, not to actually make money, but to help circumvent our second amendment rights.

Wolf 22 match ammo. GTREAT Stuff.

Any Wolf Gold ammo- great stuff.

Not all Russian ammo is steel, guys.

Just did a quick online check and none available. Price will rise!

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Too bad that the government has done that. I do not use any Russian ammo for it does not affect me. Feel sorry for those that do. Just waiting for them to do something to U.S. made ammo.........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

"(the Hornady was an early buy, before I knew better). "
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I'll apologize in advance for the thread drift, but what was, or is, wrong with Hornady steel cased ammo?

Saying it does not affect you- that may not be entirely accurate.

Steel-cased ammo is often the cheapest complete ammo. If you remove that option, then those who chose to shoot the cheap stuff now face one of several alternatives;

1. Buy the new cheapest ammo. Depending on caliber, this may be another import, or it may well be an American brass brand. If you happen to shoot one of these brands, you now face competition for that
2. perhaps you do the math, and decide it is time to reload. For this, you need components; including primers and powder. If you reload already, there's now a good chance you will face increased competition for those components. And it's not like they're piled up on shelves, waiting for anyone who needs them

This isn't a small category of shooters, the number tossed around is something like 40% of the buying total.

I have felt bad for those that did not have the forethought or the funds to stock up when things were reasonable. I still shoot three days a week with my friends. Hopefully we all outlive our ammo components and have to resort to buying some in the future.

I see a lot of ammo nowadays from former Communist Block countries. I have a feeling these will help to fill the gap left by Russia.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Every shooter in the US is going to feel the repercussions of this in the availability and price of the ammo they do shoot, because demand will remain the same with a smaller supply. Manufacturers will need to spend more time making the popular calibers, so the niche calibers will be harder to get. Increased production will affect reloading component price and availability.

The "I don't care" and similar attitudes helps the anti 2nd crowd.

I've only used the steel case stuff once. Years ago I bought some Wolf .30 Carbine ammo because it was cheap. That **** broke the extractor in my M1 Carbine not once, but twice! The first time I thought it was just a fluke. The second time I knew it was the ammo. I've never had any problems at all with brass cased ammo.
I haven't used any steel case ammo since.

While I do reload just about every caliber I shoot, I do see how this is going to effect me. In an already tight ammo/component market, this is just gonna make matters much worse.

Ain't it funny how the items .gov wants to ban fit right in with their anti-gun agenda?

Regardless of the “reality” of Russian ammo, I find it ironic the . Gov will punish them by hurting Americans. Sad really. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

Wait'll they start throwing a sin tax on it, like they did with cigarettes. couple bucks a pack to over 10 bucks. 500% minimum increase.
That would make that 10 dollar box of nine, just slightly higher.

And again..... NOT ALL RUSSIAN AMMO IS STEEL.

Wolf Gold is all Brass, for instance.

And some incredibly good stuff.

I have shot so much russian ammo in so many calibers and cannot say it was, reliability wise, any different from any other ammo. In particular the 9mm which I use in my SMGs.

Several years ago when I became interested in ARs, I bought samples of about eight or ten bulk, cheap ammos. All shot poorly from an accuracy perspective in comparison with match ammo or well-developed handloads.

I've stuck with my own accurate handloads without regret. I'd do without if I had to use any of the the cheap commercial ammo regardless of where it comes from. It's money well spent only if your interest in accuracy is very secondary.