But in 2008 or 2009 I found a 4006 LE trade in at Cabelas gun library and I fell in love with it. Then I started collecting S&W 2ND & 3RD Gens and have found locally a lot of very clean Like new in the box 40's and have bought everyone that came around. It seems like people bought 40's back in the early-mid 1990's just because it was the new hot thing but they never really went out and shot them. I have bought a CS40, 410, 410S, 4046, and a 4013 single stack.. and Cabelas had some of the M&P LE trade in in 40 the other day and it looks as if it was never issued and I like it a lot. I just wish I would have been buying more ammo for them over the years.

For personal defense, .45 ACP and .40 S&W should never have been born. 9mm is all anybody needs.

Opinions are like exhaust pipes........We all got one. And yours effects no one but you.

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S&W Accumulator

Traditionally handgun calibers renowned for fight stoppers & / or efficent killers of game have been large bore . Exception being the 357 mag which relies on velocity / expansion , which IMHO is best left for smaller game & felonious bipeds .

I don't believe they are "polarizing" at all!!!! Who said they were?? I think you're stirring the pot Mr. 40 Smollett Wesson.

Ahhhh yes the 40S&W hate/curiosity threads. I will play along.

I know 40S&W isn't for everyone.
Shooting some factory loads (WWB165 immediately comes to mind) out of a light compact or a sub-compact platform can be...well...kind of harsh.
There are plenty of other good loads available thankfully and in a full size platform most of these are quite pleasant to shoot.
I shoot more 40S&W than anything and really like the balance of power & capacity. I was initially forced into adopting 40 short & weak for competition, but really have become a huge fan after many years of loading & shooting it.
The 40 has immense versatility (esp. if you roll your own) and can send 135gr or 140's slow or with impressive speed.
Push a 200gr like 45Auto or send 180's & 165's hot. 9mm cannot offer the bullet weights that 40 can. Load it up or load it down using a wide variety of powders.... all with more capacity than 45 & more punch than 9. 40S&W has versatility!

I always hear the comment that bullet design improvement has made 9mm more viable for SD. Yes, I think this is true.
Haven't the same improvements bolstered 40S&W's and 45Auto's terminal effectiveness as well?
I believe the answer is also, yes. Some folks don't like change. There are still plenty of choices.

I myself have never really cared for 9mm, I've always had them, but I've always loved the .40s&w, bought and sold so many of them, 4 shorty 40s and a myriad of other manufacturers...

I was down to zero .40s then I got another barrel for my 4014/1013 conversion, after 1 mag of .40 is had to put .40s back in the stable so I got 3 more lol...

Love it or hate it, its just another caliber

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This is the way....

I didn't ever write this on a bathroom wall, but yes, Glocks in the 40 platform do have quicker parts wear...pin breakage and locking block breakage being top of the lost that I have personally seen. That said, it's not an overnight thing.

Handgun effectiveness boils down to one thing. Shot placement. Period. That said, a 9mm steered where it is supposed to go, works. A larger caliber that misses the sweet spot won't. Period.

For most shooters...Most that is, they steer a 9mm better than something that offers more flash and sizzle. Just facts. It's that simple.

I've carried 9mm, .40 and from time to time, .45...and never felt unarmed. However, I would never knowingly take any of them to a gunfight as handguns are nothing more than weapons of convenience.

And to blame the FBI for l this based on the black swan event that was April 11, 1986 is patently unfair. While there was much to be learned from that event, those boys played the hand that they were dealt.

In that instance, Jerry Dove sent a 9mm Silvertip into that dirt bag that killed him...but no one told the bad guy. It sometimes takes a bit too long to bleed out. If Dove had hit him with a 40, I can't really say 1 mm would have changed the outcome.

You pay your money and you take your chances.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

40 S&W is a particular case with several things that set people off. Here's a few:

1) It's snappy in many guns.

2) It's loud at the range. (Yes, that's a problem for some shooters)

3) The case support issue alienated the reloader community, despite the fact the problem was with Glock.

4) Some developed an irrational fear of the caliber in any gun because of the case support issue.

5) More irrational fears: some felt it threatened their favorite caliber, be it 9mm or 45 ACP.

6) It's not 10mm.

As for the other "4" calibers, many feel that 45ACP is "too much" and it's "too old". Maybe it's the association with the 1911, a big heavy gun with the hammer cocked when you see one. Yeah, I know.

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Release the Kraken

1911s and .40 have had problems. Slide goes too fast, leading to extraction issues. Both Colt and Kimber dropped them from their lines a long time ago. Much better luck in plastic guns.

I can't speak specifically for the .40 S&W. As already stated, there are psychological reasons such as in grained belief systems that come into play. People believe things and there is no changing their mind.

I am a retired local law enforcement guy with over 20 years of carrying a revolver. To me, a 9mm is nothing more than a .38 Special +P. Easy to handle, easy to shoot. I carried a .45 ACP Colt Commander off duty and when in plain clothes.

Recently the FBI changed back to the 9mm and almost everyone joined the parade. One reason given is that the 9mm is as effective as the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP in gel testing. The key phrase is "gel testing" not a human being high on adrenaline, PCP or other stimulants. Also, I hear about the advancement in 9mm bullets. Well, bullet design did not stop with the 9mm, did not concentrate only on the 9mm.

There are two reasons that the FBI went back to the 9mm. One, economics, 9mm is cheaper. Two, female agents and smaller agents with no prior gun experience had an easier time qualifying with it. To be an agent you are required to qualify. No qualify, no being an agent.

One more thing, way back when the FBI was using the .38 Special revolver, their official position was "the .38 Special is all law enforcement needs." The FBI has a history of changing calibers for their current rationalizations. Their current rationalization support the 9mm. It will change.

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Lache pas la patate!

#2.........Ever fired a short barreled 357 or 44 mag?

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S&W Accumulator

If what you said is so. Then why do ALL our 1911's in 10MM(which is a more powerful than the ( "more snappier 40") your quote. Work so well?

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S&W Accumulator

Right about the cost, not so much about the female agents.

We had the .40 for twenty years. I was a firearms instructor for most of those years, and the females generally handled the .40 as well as the males. I never thought the .40 had much recoil.

Anyone who had trouble qualifying was offered a Glock 19 or 17. The 9mm was always an option for agents - before and after 4/11/86. I came onboard in 1991, and I was issued a Sig P226 in 9mm.

There is a lot of internet nonsense about the FBI’s response to the Miami shooting. Mostly because the Bureau is a private place. Tactics, weapons, ammunition, and the culture changed drastically. Because the Bu released all the ammunition testing data, people sometimes assumed that was all we did.

The switch to the 9mm as standard issue was about money. If any agent wants to buy his own .40 Glock and carry it, it is still allowed. Not many do, though, and I expect before long the Bu will be all Glock 9mms.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

IMO the answer to lots of ballistic questions is, "Remington .41 Magnum!"

I like the .45acp but have no love for the .40 S&W . That's just me . You do you .

when retailers can sell a semi auto in .380 for 2-400$ and the cheapest available snub nose 357 magnum from sw is going at 998$,,, there be a reason those wee lil guns are selling

I see a lot of people mistakenly use the term "hate' when they should be using the term "prefer". I prefer the 9mm because it works for me I shoot it well, the cost is manageable and the weapon I use I happen to really like. That doesn't mean I get to tell others that my caliber of choice is the wonder bullet and will stop a fella right where they stand even if it hits them in the little pinky toe. But I will say every since the .40 cal came out there's a group that just can't even stop talk about how pitiful it is. How it's a short and weak. But hey I've met people that say that can't stand tomatoes but slather ketchup on a hot dog and smile while they eat it.....

The .40 caliber round is my favorite.

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How many guns are too many?

Six at a time, for the most part...

Cheers!

P.S. Is there a 41 Special out there, somewhere?

.40 is a great round for civilians who possess a realistic daily threat matrix that seamlessly encompasses standard two-legged threats as well several hundred pound four-legged threats.

I can’t think of a more versatile handgun caliber range. What other range can do from pest control to dangerous game duty, that includes the big five. I’m talking about factory supported cartridges, not a 500 mag cut down to 44 special length, or a 357 bullet in a 600 nitro length case.

The 40 caliber auto stuff in general recoils more than the 35 cal, heavier bullets, more powder, same size and weight firearm, you do the math. I’ll admit I can can follow up faster with a 9mm vs a 10mm, some people show no difference.

Everything aside, I don’t want to be looking down the barrel of anything.

The 40 has not been my favorite. I suck at shooting with it and have never bought a gun in that caliber. I handle most calibers below it okay and even 45acp. That said I’ve re-evaluated some other calibers and guns I haven’t shot well. I’ve shot a S&W Airweight snubnose in 357 magnum, couldn’t handle it at all. Now, I’m looking for a model 649 in 357 magnum, why, caliber versatility and I want to improve myself with a caliber and gun type that gave me trouble. LoL. I don’t hate any caliber, just some I need more practice with.

I have got a neutral view of all the .40.caliber cartridges in theory I find the 40 &w, 41 magnum, 40 super and 400 corbon quite appealing and owning a 41 magnum revolver and .40 smith and wesson sig or Glock at some point in the future for my collection is also on my bucket list. Practically speaking the 40 caliber guns are not very relevant in Austria. Most target shooters use the 9x19mm luger and the revolver guys either use the 38 special or the 357 magnum. Law Enforment is also 9mm.

What makes everything in the .40 Caliber range so polarizing?

Simple answer = Humans..... they can't help themselves....

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.............SmithNut

Kimber and Colt were putting .40 in their lightweight and standard weight guns, e.g. Colt Defender. These guns lacked the weight to handle the snappier .40


The big 1911s you speak of can handle 10mm because they are beefed up from standard Govt model spec. See the newer Delta Elite and Springfield TRP. You think that big dust cover on the TRP's frame is just to handle a heavy light? Nope, it adds weight and stiffness to the frame. Slide is heavy, too.

Note that the G22 was always just a G17 chambered for .40. But the gen 5 is wider and has a larger heavier slide, even at the expense of a great deal of holster compatibility. Glock has now done what Smith and HK did from the beginning: design the gun for the .40 cartridge.

These things matter.