It's a shame that the discussion on the 30 SC has gone this way!

A very serious question: what happens when an ill-informed politician gets the brilliant (sarcasm) idea to replicate the policies of other high crime countries by banning the ownership of firearms in any military caliber? Where will the owners of arms chambered in: 223, 5.56, 6.8SPC, 30 Carbine, 30M1, 308, 38 S&W, 38 Special, 9x19, and 45 ACP be when their beloved arms and ammunition are banned? We are seeing these attempts with the AR platform.

We actually need to support the development of new arms and ammunition in preparation for the next step our elected non-representatives make!

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Judge control not gun control!

We can debate ballistics and stopping power all day but there are folks looking for lower recoil options. My wife has arthritis and other issues. I don't think the .30 SC will work for her because she doesn't even like the 380 EZ. She has a model 317 she likes and shoots well. Guess it's better than nothing. Thought about finding a.32 revolver and trying long wad cutters?

I agree. What is the need for the 30 SUPER CARRY? If the .380 and 9mm do the job, why is there a need for this? It sounds kina like a Hallmark card scam to sell a product that no one needs...creating a vacuum where none exists...

I think you missed my point. People feel the need to re-invent the wheel over and over. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I know that the 357 SIG was trying to come up with a new 357 mag but, other than being of initial interest, it won't be a long term agency gun and will relegate itself to the private collector/personal safety. It too is a solution looking for a problem. the main stays of 9, 40, and 45 have everything covered that is needed. You can get hotter or milder rounds for each.

My point is that the 30 SC will end up being one of those that will never catch on with any large department.

At normal pistol velocities, penetration isn’t dependent on projectile energy or velocity.

Penetration through tissue, bone, and barriers is dependent on the conservation of momentum, and the law of conservation of momentum strongly favors heavier projectiles.

And they'll go back to bigger, harder hitting calibers for the same reason they did before. Some FBI agent will shoot a hop head 17 times and still get killed. The powers that be will wring their hands and spend oodles of tax dollars on ballistic gel and come to the conclusion that they need more power. It's a carousel and if you stand still long enough, it will change back again.

I'm too old to be buying new different calibers and reloading dies, at my age.

I remember when the 17 Cal. was new and cool................

All you youngsters have fun with all these new fancy pistols and rifles.
I will just TRY and find kids in my family that still likes guns and take them from me....
or have to give them to "Outsiders" for a total loss of good workmanship, down the drains.

I'm not a "kid" but I am available for adoption, dad.

Lawn mowing is my specialty.

(I know, it was predictable but it had to be said ...)

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Just Say No - To Social Media

I do not have much hope for and no need for this round, as I have said earlier.

But, as I sit and think about it, I probably will stop short of predicting its demise. You just never know. Some Hollywood-ite might get inspired to make a movie where the ultra-cool cop runs around a California city filled with crime and horrible people while killing them with this caliber in many humorous ways. In the most notable scene you see him standing over the villian with his gun pointed at him. The memorable line is "Did the slide fail to lock back or not? - Feeling lucky punk?"

You will not be able to buy anything in that caliber for the next two years.

Believe it or not, it could happen.

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NRA Life Member

Last time I was at Academy Sports and Outdoors last Thursday they had 6 or 8 20-round boxes of Federal Premium HST .30 SC for $29.99 a box, $1.50 a round.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Another solution in search of a problem.


I carry a j-frame daily unless I'm having one of those less optimistic days.


6 rounds and a reload is plenty, I don't plan on missing a lot.

With the .30 Super Carry you get near 9x19mm power with a 20% increase in magazine capacity. I'm happy with my 9x19mms, .38 Spls/.357 Mags, but then I look at my Grand Power String SP9A1 30-round magazines & imagine 36-round magazines the same length...

No, I will no go down that road. But,...if they ban "high caliber cartridges like the 9x19...

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

guns.com shows boxes of 50 Federal American Eagle .30 Super Carry ammo in stock @ $23.99

100gr bullet
brass case
Muzzle Velocity 1250fps

S&W Shield Plus w/3.1'" barrel in stock @ $570.99

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

"Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face" - Mike Tyson

Nobody plans on getting in a car wreck or missing. But it happens to a lot of people that think it couldn't happen to them. Taking the time to carefully place your shots at the range is one thing. Doing the same while someone is pointing a gun at your face is another.

Some people can do that. But unless you are training in high stress environments where speed matters nearly as much as accuracy you really don't know.

I don't tell people what to carry. As long their chosen carry gun give them the confidence that they will be able to defend themselves with it it's a good choice for them. But most people are not going to shoot a snub nose revolver like Jerry Miculek no matter how much they train and practice. I would guess that 90% of shooters are not as good as they think and will miss more often than they expect to if they have to use their gun in self defense. Having the humility to recognize you might miss and carrying a gun that gives you a few more shots is not a bad thing.

Extra rounds in a mouse gun accomplishes nothing.

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I've still got it made.

The latest on my list of cartridges having no significant merit. As if anyone cares.

Just recently saw some down at the Warehouse.
They had Two good sized stacks of Ball and a small pile of JHP.
I don’t think their price was as low as the Rem already posted.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I read the whole thread and felt it was a good discussion of the pros and cons of the new round. I probably will not be buying one, but have always thought a high velocity 30 or 32 was a good idea in an autoloader. I was thinking more of a 1400 fps round though...1230 is not what I was thinking was missing, but i hope the new cartridge and guns chambered for it sell well. There's really no good reason to hope they don't.

I recently watched a Forgotten Weapons video on you tube about the .30 SC. The host, Ian McCallum reviewed the cartridge in the Shield +. The review was more about the cartridge than the pistol. Ian did a detailed comparison between the .30 SC and the 7.65 French Long cartridge which is dimensionally almost identical.

Ian liked the Shield + but in his opinion the .30 SC would really shine as a subgun and or PCC round. I thought that was an interesting idea.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Remember how .41 Mag was supposed to be more size efficient, too?[/QUOTE]

Actually , probably 50% of the reason for the ( Law Enforcement market) failure of the .41 Mag was the total absence of any attempt to make it Size Efficient .

It was designed to have more ( insert prefered terminology for recieving end effectiveness ) than .38/ .357 ammunition of the time , but less recoil than .44 Mag ..And it Did !

But the N Frame was big and heavy , and thus disliked by most Ofcs unless they were gun enthusiasts And burly .

The lead bullet " police load " performed well in actual gunfights , but fired in quanity for training had leading and accuracy issues . The only other then loads with full power jacketed was too much recoil for much of the rank & file .

Meanwhile , as bullet advances improved the effectiveness of .38/ .357 , the percieved demand for general issue large frame big bores wained .

I probably already commented earlier in this thread , but in light of the other currently active thread , I'll readdress here .

I like and appreciate hot .32s . Historically , look at the percentage of pre WWII M&Ps in .32-20 vs .38Spl , and their popularity with outdoorsmen and LE ( and classic Blues songs ) .

That said , put anything in .30SC on your list of current production guns to buy now because they will be Collectables in relatively near future .

Add .30SC to the list of calibers that actually are worthwhile calibers , but are either too niche , or too ahead of their time to resonate with the general buying public .

I revel enough in the Intresting & Obscure , that I'd enjoy a .30SC PCC . But realistically , that's reinventing the wheel to essentially duplicating the .32WSL and the .30 Carbine .

IMO the .41 Magnum didn't take hold because at the time LE was transitioning to semi-auto and the 9mm. Like said above, the .41 Magnum was designed to be more than the .357 Magnum with less recoil than then.44 Magnum. It did achieve that task but it was a victim of timing.

I don't think the 30 SC will catch on in any big numbers because of the need to change guns. In today's environment there just isn't the funds to change from a perfectly good platform. (although it has been done many times before)

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I saw him use that recently at a BUG match. It worked great and the capacity was awesome for what it was. If the round has the power and the bullet has a reliable design I think it is a cool addition to our cartridge option list. Higher cost is bad for the end user though. Time will tell right?

That's possible, I can be wrong and often am.

For some reason I seem to remember something like that but as I'm posting I looked it up and you are correct, sorry...

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I remember the time well. Heck the dept I dealt with was changing from 38 to 357 in the 70's but there was a transition period. The cops I knew were talking of the 41 mag at the time too. There was some pushback on the 41 because most depts didn't think that the new recruits(women) could handle the 357 much less the 41. It was a much less enlightened time and women were really starting to enter new fields of endeavors. We started hiring women in the fire service too. But the physical requirements for FD work were more stringent than police work and it took longer for us. Most of the female police officers I encountered in those times were pretty much able to handle their duties well(except maybe knock down drag out fights...but they learned....and they hired more police officers. Then all the stuff hit the fan and the lead police agency changed calibers and really killed off the 41 for police use. I carried a 357 as a fire investigator... a job I only did for a short period of time. Thankfully. I seem to remember the State Police had gone to 9s by then...or were about to.

I knew 2 cops at the time that used the 41. I don't remember too much but one needed some "serious" ammo and I got him some 210 gr mag jacketed stuff. Both those cops were "gun guys" though

I'm hoping the 30SC takes off and bullets in .312-.314 for reloading become more plentiful from more sources.
Maybe some 100gr plated from Berry's and Xtreme that I can use in 32 H&R Magnum.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

No , it was the 9mm Federal ( Rimmed) t that was wrong time to get blindsided by the unfirseeably rapid sudden takeover by Wondernines . If the changeover had either been more gradual , or occurred 5 years later , the 9mm Federal would have been at least a medium hit . Useable in existing medium and smallish frame platforms , more powerful than .38 +P+ , but less recoil than .357 Mag , AND didn't have the still somewhat politically sensitive name " Magnum " . Back in almost day , and friend and co-worker bought a 9mm Fed on close out pricung , liked it very much , and continued to carry it, until he could no longer buy ammo from local sources .

No , it was improved .38 Spec ammo , and lesser extent improved .357 that killed .41 Magnum .

Upgading caliber seemed paramount , when the baseline was 158 RNL . Improved ammo with usually expanding HP bullets made the rank & file LE opinions that .38+P became sufficiently adaquate , and .357 125 an Apex load .

What If .41Mag had more/ different loads offered back in day ? Let's say HP Bullets of 170 to 200gr , at velocities along the spectrum of what we later associated with .40 S&W to 10mm ? Probably wouldn't have become #1 most popular LE gun , but would have had 5 to 10 times the sales , and had modest to medium popularity with both LE , and general shooting public .

* I * am sufficiently convinced that .30SC terminal performance overlaps into 9x19 std pressure JHP , aka a level of sufficiently acceptable to be a creditable primary pistol . Then add the flatter long range trajectory and higher sectional density , and brings us back to the historical analogy to .32-20 vs .38 Spl . Just like my Father in the late 1930's with his Police Positive Special .32-20 , I'd seen the light about .30SC .

But I'm an outlier . It would be a steep challenge for an advertising department to convince the general public to disbuse them of the ( usually correct) notion that Bigger is Better . So far , the gun mfgs are betting on a cpl more rounds magizine capacity in same sized pistols . Admittedly , I place less importance on that factor than the average buy ,but that's still a steep task . I'm not sure if it's mechanically possible , but a unique sized platform , that simultaneously captures the fancy of the general buying public might long term assure success of .30SC . Maybe grip frame size of a Shield , porportionally thinner slide , bbl length of close to 4 inches , to evoke the spirit of a Colt 1903 on turbo boost ?

If the general buying public were amenable to the concept of fast smaller caliber vs the usual standard caliber , then .327 Federal would have taken over 1/3 of the sales from .38 Special revolvers instead of being an obscure niche enthusiast caliber .

I know it seems kinda schizophrenic for me to seemingly praise and damn the .30SC . I'd enjoy having one as much as I'd enjoy having a .41 Special . But the mass market won't agree with me . They'll just ask " what can this new caliber do for me , that I care about , that my compact polymer 9mn can't ? "

Thus , I predict commercial succuess somewhat better than .45GAP , but less so than .357 Sig . I'd love to be proved wrong , but it would take a lot of luck and great advertising campaign to reach the level od commercial succuess of the .357 Sig .

Market success will depend on gun store clerks. Millions of new, first time gun buyers will be easy pickins.

For an introductory pistol, it has good qualities. But it is neither 'Super,' nor good for 'Carry.'

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I've still got it made.

If they could get the marketing department that handled the 6.5 Creedmoor, it would take off for sure...

Rosewood

We may be there now..

I had a hard time spending additional $ on a 10/12 round 9mm to replace my quality Sig 938, but when I saw the Shield+ in 30SC at 13/16 I jumped on it. I think it has a great nitch and will be here to stay, I'm quite happy with it and feel comfortable with 30 rounds on my person vs. 14.

I saw the 30sc Shield plus at the store 1 week ago and bought it. It has a 13rd flush and 16rd extended magazine, which is 3 more than my 9mm Shield plus magazines. The 30sc HST in my Shield plus is 21ft/lbs MORE ENERGY than the 147gr 9mm HST's I've been carrying for years in my 9mm Shield plus, and all my other 9mm concealed carry guns.

HST rounds expand and penetrate, and the 30sc HST's have shown so far to penetrate and expand no differently than the 9mm HST's. All the skeptics please explain to me how I'm less capable with 17rds of 30sc HST in my new Shield plus.

Whenever Glock, SIG, Ruger, Shadow Systems, Taurus, and Springfield release 30sc versions of the 43x, 365, Max9, CR920, GX4, and Hellcat, all of you will eventually buy 1 or 2. As long as bullets from HST, Critical Defense and Gold Dot are made for this round, I'm not worried in the least carrying it for self defense.

Couldn't have said better myself.

The only thing that would interest me in this caliber is if S&W re-engineered the M&P Bodyguard 380 to chamber the 30 Super Carry. I would retire my 380 Bodyguard and pick up a new one in a heart beat.

S&W hasn't and I don't think they will in the future, so I'm not interested in adding another odd ball pistol caliber to my gun safe. I have enough odd ball pistol calibers: 38/200, 9x20 Browning Longue, 9x18 Mak, 7.62 Tokarev, 32 ACP, 10mm, 32 S&W (short).

If the 9mm 147gr HST's I've been carrying for years were sufficient self defense rounds, then these new 30sc HST rounds will also be sufficient self defense rounds. They've got more energy and expand and penetrate no differently than a 9mm.

The person getting shot won't know the difference. The medical examiner doing an autopsy, and the doctor doing emergency surgery also won't know the difference between the 9 and 30sc.

Here we are on a S&W forum where we're given a Shield Plus with 17rds of 30sc, and everybody still bitches and moans about it. Tough crowd to please.

They weren't. You need a rifle or shotgun for that.

We are all responsible for our own salvation. Carry what you want. But never believe a pistol is adequate. We carry pistols because they are convenient.

So the argument is over which is less inadequate.

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I've still got it made.

Because the purpose of 30 SC is to increase capacity while still being effective, particularly in small guns.

The 5.7 is much too long to fit guns designed for 45 ACP or 10mm, let along guns designed for 9mm length cartridges. Being a bottleneck cartridge it really needs a long barrel too. There is a reason the pistols chambering it have 5 inch or longer barrels. They are big guns. Too big to be a concealed carry gun.

Even with that 5 inch barrel the 5.7 is less powerful than 30 SC. The test I saw of Speer's 40 grain GoldDot 5.7 ammo generated 275 ft-lbs of power out of Ruger and FN pistols, less than 30 SC generates out of a 3 inch barrel. With a 3 inch barrel a 5.7 pistol would probably be down with the 380 in terms of muzzle energy.

Check out the 22tcm and 22tcm9r, it beats the 5.7 in a pistol. And is in 9mm energy range.

Not saying it is better than 9 or 30sc, just pointing it out.

Rosewood

The 5.7 GoldDot generates 275 ft-lbs of energy out of a handgun with a 5 inch barrel.

A 124 grain +P 9mm GoldDot generates around 400 ft-lbs of energy out of a handgun with a 4 inch barrel.

The 9mm has 45% more energy than the 5.7, not less. And that extra energy has a lot to due with why it is more effective.

I look at this and would rather have it in a long arm for a reloadable plinker / small game gun.
Then I ponder the late great 30 M1 carbine ......

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it just needs more voltage

Absolutely not interested even a tad. I have what I want and reload for them.

Sir, I’m sure you’re not here to please everyone. If you like it, that’s all that counts. We each have our opinion.

And I for one will not be buying any 30SC. As stated In my initial post, I’m too heavily invested in 9MM. Three Glocks, a BHP, EAA Witness Elite, and CZ75. And more magazines than I’ll ever need.

And I predict that 30SC will always cost more.

Will it catch on? I hope so. More choices is always good.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

seems that this cartridge concept comes up a fair amount through history.
32-20, 30 Peterson, 30 M1 carbine, 32 h&r mag, 327 fed, and I suppose we could stretch a little and lump 300 whisper and 300 blackout into this as well to some extent.
some have done better than others, and not always for it's merits.
If you reload and cast ... these mighty mice have a certain appeal.
The rimmed 32's in a carbine of some flavor make fine small game and range pieces. 30 SC would fit into this well enough. The industry keeps stuffing this into handguns with a near singular focus.
It should be both a long arm and pistol targeted campaign.
even then, there just isnt a good barometer for what hits and what misses. 300 whisper hit the scene long before 300 blackout, and historically the first to set root takes the prize. the whisper is rarely heard of today where blackout seems to have broken out beyond being an exotic novelty.
I'd rather do my fighting with a 45. though i know most every cabinet full of ammo is destined to a sheet of paper regardless of caliber.
Collectively, we are a bit foolish in this respect.
We love to shoot. Embrace this without justification beyond just simply that, and one of these 25 - 32 cal cartridges rises to the top.
For some reason, we base this upon the exception. it's for self defense, T rex hunting, the inevitable rise of the machines ....
We cannot seem to just enjoy our range time for our range time. so we burn 3x the powder and up to 4x the lead to do what something like the 30SC or 327 fed would do with brilliance.

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it just needs more voltage

Other than SHOT and NRA, I have yet to see a gun or ammo for the 30 SC in the wild. Who all is making guns and ammo for it?

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213th FBINA

Saw the first few boxes at academy last year, shelves were mostly bare at the time. Have seen in several gun stores in last few weeks. Saw some yesterday. Only seen one or 2 guns though.

Attached Images

5152022131732.jpg (40.3 KB, 2 views)

What are the top velocities of your HOT 380 ACPs ?
Bullet type.
Bullet weight.
Gun/barrel length.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe