It has been reported that the IRS has purchased over $725,000 worth of ammunition so far this year and has purchased over 11 million in ammunition during the past 10 years.
Along with the 11 million in ammunition it's also been reported that the IRS also purchased over 4,400 firearms during the 10 year period.

A House Bill has been introduced by Rep Matt Gaetz of Florida to prohibit the Internal Revenue Service and(a few) other agencies that have little to no need for large amounts of ammo and firearms from acquiring, by purchase or otherwise, any ammunition after the bill’s enactment with U.S. Reps. Jeff Duncan, R-SC, Paul Gosar, R-Ariz., and Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., are co-sponsoring the bill which was sent to the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee.

A 2018 report by the Government Accountability Office showed. Heading into 2018, the IRS had 4,487 guns and 5,062,006 rounds of ammunition in its inventory.

It's time to contact your Representatives to support this measure to stop this infringement of 2nd Amendment that makes ammo more expensive and harder to find.

Please move if in wrong forum.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

"Political power flows from the barrel of a gun."

-Some small-time wannabe dictator

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Because of the metric system?

One of the dumbest bills introduced this session.

I wonder what "other agencies" are intended. The FBI? The Secret Service? The Department of Defense? I'll guess that there are government lawyers that can make the argument that Feds have the right to bear arms and buy ammo, too.

Given the list of sponsors, I'd comment on this bill's likelihood of passage, but I'd better quit while I'm ahead.

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What, me worry?

Please expand on your comment since there is little substance to it.

I would imagine that like the IRS there are other federal agencies that have little to no need to stock pile ammo and firearms but hold some in inventory.

This has zero to do with agencies that have a need for such appropriations like the FBI,Secret Service,Homeland Security,ATF etc.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

They have arrest authority. They should continue to be armed.

They are stockpiling ammunition and firearms?

Could you cite a source for that?

WHAT?! Law enforcement Officers be ARMED?!

That's crazy!

sarcasm

Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation (IRS-CI) is the United States federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating potential criminal violations of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code and related financial crimes, such as money laundering, currency violations, tax-related identity theft fraud, and terrorist financing that adversely affect tax administration.

IRS Criminal Investigation - Wikipedia

There are over 2,200 Special Agents.

It’s about 20% over 1,000 rounds per gun. That doesn’t seem excessive.

Whether more than 4,000 guns is reasonable, I don’t know. It seems excessive, but I have met with armed IRS agents when I found and reported a tax cheat.

The reported number of firearms is 2x armed agents. Reasonable?

IRS Agents are issued handguns and long guns. They’ve been armed and making arrests since before Capone.

2200 Agents training and qualifying 4 times a year will use about 2 million rounds.

Typically ammo contracts are multi-year affairs. A five year contact would be 10 million rounds (at least) at a whack. They typically don’t get it all at once.

I doubt much is stockpiled.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Also known as 1,200 if my math is correct.

Did they pay you the advertised reward?

Yes, it is.

Duty gun, backup gun, and a long gun in the trunk, plus some at the armorer's shop... 2X seems a little light to me!
If I was in a public trust where I carried a firearm, I'd want more than 1K rounds/year of practice, *way* more if I had subguns or other stuff with a giggle-switch.

Where's Elliott Ness when you need him . . . ?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Eh, 1,000 rounds is the often recommended stash. Not 1,200, not 800, but 1,000.

There was some resistance, by the agents, to the notion that the **** was a tax cheat. Probably because of the relative complexity. I declined the reward to hammer home the fact that it was an obvious case of criminal tax cheating, even if dealing with some not so typical circumstances.

The 10% would have been about $5,000 in 1983ish dollars. It was a lot more important that the **** was held accountable for stealing (and not reporting the stolen goods and services as income) than the $s to me. FWIW, the county prosecutor plead him down to a misdemeanor. But the IRS pursued him so well he committed suicide by car, driving solo into a tree. Unfortunately, his wife, as guilty a *** as he was, collected on his life insurance.

I chalked up the issue as a win, despite his *** wife collecting the insurance.

No theft from the company after his suicide, wonder why?

There are very few government agencies which do not have some armed security or law enforcement personnel on their organization charts. Even those agencies no one has ever heard of. I have seen them all at FLETC. At one time, and maybe still, FLETC had a large IDIQ contract for ammunition that many federal agencies purchased off of. I bought some special purpose ammo using that contract when I was working for the USAF. It was even available to ordinary civilian LE agencies, I don’t know how many used it.

Ok, now let’s talk about the Department of Education. Same arguments?

Unless you are calling for the disarming of law enforcement, yes.

OIG Investigation Services

Almost all of the cabinet level departments have 1811s. Some are OIG (Office Of The Inspector General) who do contract fraud investigations and internal stuff. Then they will typically have SAs who are on the Director’s Security detail.

I was flying armed out of DC one time and they have to tell all the armed folks who the other armed folks are on the plane. There was me (FBI), a Postal Inspector, and two dudes who were the security detail for the Director of Health and Human Services, who was also on the flight. The Postal Inspector and I rode in the cattle section, those other fellas rode right up front with the big wigs.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

The US Mint Police carry as well.

Come on now. You’re not supposed to bring facts to a conspiracy theory brain storming session.


Matt Gaetz is probably upset because they are one of the many departments investigating him.

These are not the people doing the audits or collecting taxes...

Criminal Investigation is the smallest part of the IRS...they work not only large scale tax evasion, but drug trafficking, money laundering and transnational organized crime...many of these crimes go hand in hand with violent criminals.

They are special agents just like thoee employed by the 75 plus federal agencies that have gun toters...

And...they have been doing it since 1919...

Many of the excess guns are in storage or used for training at FLETC. There is no ammo stockpiled as it gets burned throughout the year in training. It's nothing new or sinister. The esteemed congressman simply does not understand federal law enforcement.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

Others have beat me to it, but this proposal embarrassingly boils down to “defund the police.” IRS-CI are criminal investigators who graduated from an academy, fully trained, and need to qualify on their issued firearms on a regular basis. They specialize in money laundering investigations, often targeting terror and organized crime. While executing search or arrest warrants, interviewing subjects, etc they need to be armed. I have had the pleasure of working with IRS-CI agents numerous times throughout my career, and they have been nothing but professional. No need to disarm them.

Strange how the FBI was able to manage these responsibilities in the past. Now every alphabet agency is a cop.

Currently, every tin horn bureaucrat in the federal government has their own Police Department. That should worry every American who believes in limited government. It’s not an anti-law enforcement position. Far from it.

Are you recommending that all 120,000 Federal officers be rolled into the FBI? That's roughly 10x what they now have.

∆∆∆ Yes! I bite my tongue to comment further on 'law' enforcement'.

I've had the pleasure of working with/having drinks with some of the IRS special agents. To a person they have been professional and sharp.

Maybe the question should be:

Why are there 120,000 Federal officers?

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Because of the metric system?

The US tax code falls under Title 26 of the United States Code. IRS-CI is the only agency that had jurisdiction over these crimes. The FBI has never had the ability to charge such crimes...and most bag carrying FBI agents have no desire to do so.

No one enjoys paying taxes, so congress made laws that made it illegal to evade taxes....over 100 years ago.

That said, tax crimes are only one layer of financial crimes investigated.

The cases that are elevated to the criminal level are usually the most egregious. These are financial crimes on a level that would blind most people. No one is going to jail over forgetting a comma or filing the wrong form.

This is all much to do about nothing.

Sent from my SM-A025V using Tapatalk

I’ll say it :
The chances are ZERO.

The Dept. of Agriculture armed up several years ago.
Swat teams, etc.

Indeed, that is the exact mentality.

Not strange that that isn't the point, but by your answer we can assume you are calling for the disarming of law enforcement?

Perhaps, but as long as they are indeed law enforcement and carry out law enforcement duties they should be armed.

Exactly, and let's not forget that the crimes investigated are often related to drug trafficking and cartels, human smuggling and terrorism.

Just as an FYI, we go through approx. 1.25 million rounds a year for 2,500 officers.

Each officer is issued a standard dept. handgun.

Retirees get to keep their handgun.

Cadets get issued a handgun.

Spares are kept in inventory to replace those that go down or are taken in as evidence.

SWAT are issued two pistols plus a minimum of two long-guns. Due to the high volume of usage there are additional spares for SWAT.

There are several hundred shotguns and patrol rifles issued. Officers are allowed to purchase their own shotguns and/or patrol rifles. The department issued all ammunition for all issued and approved firearms.

Specialty ammo such as beanbag rounds, sage gun rounds, etc. are purchased by the department.

A lot of federal agencies are responsible for a lot of federal funds and a lot of entities who receive those funds mis appropriate them. Consequently many of them have their own inspector general offices.

The largest amount I was personally involved with was $12 million. Do you want to go arrest someone for mis appropriating/stealing that amount of money without being armed?

I'm scratching my head at this.

Nope, not what I said.

Here is a real life example of my point: In New Jersey, Division of Youth And Family Services DYFS is responsible for investigating situations concerning child abuse and a variety of other family issues. Very important work. Sometimes situations can become very volatile. DYFS case workers aren’t armed and I’m sure most don’t want to be. When needed they call upon local LawEnforcement assets for assistance. Police Officers frequently accompany DYFS case workers.

Fast forward, a Department of Education investigator needs to confront a contractor for embezzling government funds. Imagine he doesn’t have a swat team of his own. He would have to get assistance from a local agency or the US Marshals to effect an arrest.

My point remains that every government department is run by a politically appointed administrator and many have redundant law enforcement arms answerable only to them. Currently that is the law. I’m just not sure it’s the best idea.

I agree with your assessment of Federal Agents. I served as a Detective Bureau Commander and during my career as an investigator and instructor I interacted with Federal Agents frequently. They were, as a group, some of the most dedicated professionals I have ever met. It was an honor and privilege to have worked with them.

I have no interest in disarming any Law Enforcement Agent.

My simple point is that our government has become a bloated and uncontrolled bureaucracy and that a proliferation of independent and uncoordinated Law Enforcement Agencies may not be the best idea. It’s just a limited government idea.

Where did you get that idea from? Disarm Law Enforcement? Didn’t say it, never have. Assume something else.

In theory, I’m opposed to unlimited government growth and I submit that the proliferation of agency specific police agencies to be a symptom of that bloat.

“Unless bureaucracy is constantly resisted, it breaks down representative government and overwhelms democracy.” Ronald Reagan

This isn’t why I joined this forum. It happens every time I drop my guard and post on anything vaguely political. Peace friends. Signing off.

Much ado about nothing…

This bill isn’t going anywhere and this discussion is getting some folks blood pressure up, including mine.

Yes, the Government buys a lot of ammo. Take a deep breath…

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"I also cook."