Is this the Remington 45 ACP Highway Patrol Load? New picture added.

[moosedog]

Is this a Remington/Peters Highway Patrol load? The base is marked "HP" at 1200 noon and at 0600 position is "45 Auto".
What year were these made and what graif is the bullet?[img]http://i76.photobuccet.com/albums/j35/moosedog2/45ACPMetalPiercing001.jpg[/hmg]

[moosedog]

Is this a Remington/Peters Highway Patrol load? The base is marked "HP" at 1200 noon and at 0600 position is "45 Auto".
What year were these made and what grain is the bullet?

[.455_Hunter]

No, I don't think so...

I believe the bullet was more parabolic.

Here is a link with pics:

http://www.oldammo.com/may06.htm

Hunter

[moosedog]

Thats a great web site, thanks for the tip on that.
Anyone ever see another 45 bullet like this? It's the only one I have which came in a box of old ammo that I picked up.

[Texas Star]

I think this MAY be the French Tre Haut Vitesse (Very High Velocity) load. Not sure.

T-Star

[max]

As stated there was a French load called Arcane I believe. They were solid brass and loaded VERY HOT!

[AJMBLAZER]

Any idea what the French load was for? When does it date from?

[Spotteddog]

Sure hope this thread continues!
Neat stuff!

[Alpha426]

Moosedog, Is the cartridge length slightly shorter (1 mm) than a .45 ACP cartridge?

[Spotteddog]

So, are you folks saying this loading was a sub-gun affair?

[max]

Maybe 15 years ago or so one of the gun mags had a small article on this load. The mfr stated that the pressure was really high, but only for a short time. Duh. If I remember correctly, and it was many nights and lots of beers ago, it could not be imported, because it would penetrate vests, etc.

[Jim Watson]

It appears to be a French Arcane. The headstamp is probably Hertenberger, guess the French got their brass from Austria.

The rocket science (snake oil) behind the design was that the light copper bullet at high velocity would not have to expand. The scientifically calculated angle of the conical nose was supposed to dump energy into a soft target as well as a hollowpoint and penetrate as well as FMJ... or more.
Dean Grennel had moulds made with that nose angle and blew some impressive craters in modeling clay with hardcast bullets that shape, even though at lower speed.

[WR Moore]

The purpose of Arcane ammunition was armor penetraton. I once had some in 9mm, don't recall the bullet weight exactly (65 grains?) but the lower bullet weight, bullet integrity (solid copper) and shape and the very high velocity (around 2000 fps) produced impressive ability to penetrate armor and car bodies. The use of this ammo was not exclusively for subguns.

What about the cartridge headstamp made you think this was Remington? The sample shown does look like Arcane, but the bullet shape was shared by almost all metal piercing types of ammunition, including Winchester .357s.

[walkin' trails]

Did they make the Arcanes in anything other than 9mm?

[Texas Star]

Originally posted by walkin' trails:
Did they make the Arcanes in anything other than 9mm?

I think they also came in .45 ACP and .357 Magnum. The .357 has seen quite a lot of French police use.

[moosedog]

Here's a picture of the cartridge base. The reason I thought it might be a Remington round was maybe the HP stood for Highway Patrol, but the bullet itself looks too new for a 40s or 50s load.
The case mearures the same as a regular 45 ACP.

[WR Moore]

Just because it might not be legal to import it currently doesn't mean it's old production. There's a whole wide world without some of the idiotic laws we have. I had my supply-legally-in the late 1980s and mine was brand new at the time.

Supposedly, the HP headstamp is Hirtenburg Patronen. They may have produced the case alone or the entire loaded round either as regular production or under contract to whoever owns the "Arcane" brand-or whatever name the prduct is currently sold under.

[moosedog]

Thank you for the shared knowledge guys.

[skeete]

That primer looks like it is staked which would indicate a high pressure load, kind of like you find on the lake City 556 and never on the 223 for the same reasons.
I highly doubt that is a USA Remington round.

[Wayne Dobbs]

You might try looking around this site for some information, but that does look like the Arcane round: http://cartridgecollectors.org/

[BUFF]

Yes, it is Hirtenberg. They make excellent quality ammo. I have shot a lot of their .308/7.62x51.

Crimped primers have nothing to do with the pressure the cartridge is loaded to. It is to make sure the primer stays in place during the firing cycle in fully automatic weapons, some of which begin to extract the case before the bullet leaves the muzzle and the pressure drops.

[animalmother]

Have never seen that round before. Could it be AP?

[n4zov]

A couple of sources:

http://www.conjay.com/Ammunition%20for%20Armor%20Testin...Handgun-Revolver.htm

Do a search here for "Arcane"

http://cartridgecollectors.org/forum/search.php