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  #1  
Old 06-15-2009, 04:42 PM
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Question .38 +P vs .357

In a home defense situation, how much real difference is there?
Inquiring minds wanna know...

Thanks in advance for any opinions...

Kapuna
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:53 PM
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I find .38+P shot from my 681 to be a bit tamer than .357.

I've been having trouble finding regular 38 spl in self defense rounds, so I picked up .38+Ps for my mother to use in the 686 I got for her. Like I said, I find it to me a bit more mild than the .357, and also less flash. That is important when firing inside.. at night. You don't want to blind yourself with the first shot. .357 is also louder... so who wants to be blind AND deaf when dealing with a HD situation.

As far as it being effective... yes it is.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
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Evan Marshall has seen his fair share of shootouts while on Detroit PD. He says muzzle flash and blast are range issues, not gunfight issues. Many of today's hot .357s have surprisingly little flash since they contain flash suppressed powders. I would hope you would illuminate a target before shooting at it anyway. Yes you can damage your ears firing a .357 indoors, but there are no guarantees a .38 won't either. In the meantime, if you don't stop the perp, he'll try to damage all of you. I want that guy out of there ASAP, so I want power on my side.

The .357 has a stellar reputation as a stopper. .38 +P isn't so highly regarded. I'll only advise you to do what I did. Pay your dues in practice, then run with .357s. While the .357 is a much better cartridge IMO (for those who have the skills to shoot it well), you will pay for that power in muzzle blast and recoil. What kind of gun is this for? While .357 hollowpoints will expand from a snub quite reliably, most .38+P loads leave me less than confident when heavy clothing is involved.

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Old 06-15-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapuna View Post
In a home defense situation, how much real difference is there?

Kapuna
All else being equal, the .357 can shoot the same bullet about 15 to 20% faster.

Making the "all else equal" requires dedicated practice by the shooter.
One .38 COM trumps anything else in the backstop.
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAF385 View Post

I've been having trouble finding regular 38 spl in self defense rounds, so I picked up .38+Ps for my mother to use in the 686 I got for her. Like I said, I find it to me a bit more mild than the .357, and also less flash. That is important when firing inside.. at night. You don't want to blind yourself with the first shot. .357 is also louder... so who wants to be blind AND deaf when dealing with a HD situation.

+1!

I actually do this with my own 686! First two are .38 +P for exactly the reason yu mentioned. The rest of the rounds are .357 though.

I actually have fired .357 inside my house at night to test the issues mentioned by USAF385. I live far away from civilization so no neighbors can hear and get worried. I opned my sliding doors and popped off a round wearing ear protection. Quite a bit louder and VERY bright. The concussion actually knocked a picture off the wall....
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:06 PM
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When I first purchased my 620 I shot both 38 +P (Federal LE 130 gr. FMJ range ammo) and 357 Magnum (American Eagle HV 158 gr. JSP). To say the difference in recoil is mild is a huge understatement. Two boxes of the 38 +P was not problem at all, felt about the same as 38 spl. in my model 67. However, the 357 Magnum was an eye opener and after 3 cylinders I had enough. Small grips and large power just don't play well for me, now the 620 has the X frame grips on it.

My concern with 357 Magnum would be over penetration. I have some Hornaday 158 gr. JHP for the 620 but it's not my primary HD gun, for that I rely on my P239-40. Fact is, I think the 40 S&W is a great compomise between power and penetration. As for 38 +P, IMO it's a caliber best suited for a BUG. If you want a good HD revolver, my choice would be a 610 or one of the 44 spl. guns.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:35 PM
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For HD size is not really an issue so I use a +P from a 6" barrel for HD which gives about the same velocities as a full boat .357 snubbie with less recoil and muzzel flash.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:07 PM
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Smith357, I like longer barrels too. My house gun is a 5" .44 magnum. Before that a 6" 686.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
My concern with 357 Magnum would be over penetration. I have some Hornaday 158 gr. JHP for the 620 but it's not my primary HD gun, for that I rely on my P239-40. Fact is, I think the 40 S&W is a great compomise between power and penetration.
Overpenetration is more a bullet design issue than a caliber issue. There are full power .44 magnum loads that aren't overpenetrators. A good place to start is to avoid Hornady XTPs. They do exactly what they were designed to do, penetrate deeply.

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  #9  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:48 AM
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Recently,i have been using some blazer .357 158gr JHP in my 3in K-frames, and sp101. I am very impressed with the low noise, and flash levels. It is advertised at 1150fps in 4in vented bbl. I really don't know what I'm getting yet (no chronograph) but I like it enough, that I have it in 4 of my guns.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
For HD size is not really an issue so I use a +P from a 6" barrel for HD which gives about the same velocities as a full boat .357 snubbie with less recoil and muzzel flash.
According to whom? 357 even from a snubby will out perform ANY +p 38 regardless of barrel length, period. While effective a +P 38 will never compare to a properly loaded 357 for a fight, all of my 357's have 357's in them. I've carried both on duty and never felt the 357 lacking, the 38 well there were concerns. It's all about practice, my petite GF can shoot my 454 all day long with 270's at 1800+ fps and be very accurate. It's all about getting used to what you shoot. Why limit yourself if you don't have too?
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  #11  
Old 06-16-2009, 02:07 AM
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I have a 586-1 revolver in a six inch for home defense. I load it with Federal 357 Magnum 158 Grain Hydra-Shok JHP. I am comfortable shooting this load, and feel confident in its ability to protect me and my family. I feel home defense is like deer hunting, the goal is to use just one shot.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2009, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
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According to whom?
According to the numbers published in my reloading manuals, both run 158 grain HPs at 1100-1200 fps.

Edit:

My apoligies Nframe357.

I just went back to recheck my information and found I've been reading from the wrong column...... DOH!! the +P only runs those speeds when using pipsqueek bullets. 158 Grains run around 950 fps from a 6" barrel. Please ingnore the bum info in my previous posts.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:50 PM
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My HD gun is my 3" M65 .357 and I keep Remington FBI loads in it. I run the LSWCHP.38 +P's for the same flash and noise issues. I also worry about over penetration. Wen I leave the house I have .357 JHP's in my speed loaders.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:04 AM
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My 28 has 357 Mag Hydra Shoks in it. Backed up by a Mod 15 w/ Hydra Shoks
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:56 AM
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FWIW: The Buffalo Bore .38 Special +P 158 grain LSWCHP G/C loading is turning out 1000 FPS (and even a bit more in some 2" guns) out of my 1 7/8" barrel 342PD. I've seen claims (using chrono's) of near 1125 FPS on that same loading in a 4" gun. I don't know how that would extrapolate out in a 5" and a 6"?
YMMV?

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=108

Last edited by Spotteddog; 07-15-2009 at 04:17 AM. Reason: Edit, to include info
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  #16  
Old 07-15-2009, 06:47 AM
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The Model 66 used for HD around here is loaded with Speer Gold Dot .38 +P rounds. If it were only going to be used by me it would be loaded with .357 rounds, but my wife and youngest son (15) might also have to use it. My son often accompanies me to the range and likes to shoot, while my wife doesn't mind it she isn't an avid shooter. Given their limited abilities control is a primary concern, hence the .38 loads.
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Old 07-15-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
The Model 66 used for HD around here is loaded with Speer Gold Dot .38 +P rounds. If it were only going to be used by me it would be loaded with .357 rounds, but my wife and youngest son (15) might also have to use it. My son often accompanies me to the range and likes to shoot, while my wife doesn't mind it she isn't an avid shooter. Given their limited abilities control is a primary concern, hence the .38 loads.
I have a similar issue. My wife can't handle the 357 Magnum recoil; thus our 686 home defense gun is loaded w/Buffalo Bore® 38 Special +P's 158gr LSWCHPGC.
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  #18  
Old 07-16-2009, 10:43 PM
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I have a Taurus 66 .357 that I use as one of my house guns. I also have the wife concern, so I keep it loaded with Hydrashocks .38spl +P.

I also have a Colt Lawman II .357 that I’ve been thinking about employing as a house gun. Probably also put .38spl +P in it too. I haven’t shot it in years, but I remember the .357 round having quite a bit of kick and sting. If only me, I’d do the .357 round. But again I use the lower .38spl +P round because of my wife.
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Old 07-17-2009, 12:02 PM
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I don't think the noise, flash, or terminal ballistics are as important as the capability to handle the recoil for follow up shots. If you can manage the recoil and come back on target, then use the most capable round, i.e., .357 Magnum. If you can't, downsize to the next most capable round, the .38+P. The 125 grain .357 Magnum has earned the reputation as an efficient SD round; I've personally carried the .38 Special 158 grain LHP+P as a duty round and never felt underprepared.
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Old 07-17-2009, 08:14 PM
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What's the difference between HD and the street except in your house you may not be able to run away, range probably shorter and action needs to be ended, if anything, quicker to save your life or family. Use whatever you feel will protect you. If you feel good about the 38(and maybe you don't since you are asking) by all means use it. If it's the most potent you or your wife can handle, use it. ANY caliber is better than nothing but, maybe, the biggest, baddest, loudest round you can handle is your best choice. At home, probably waking from a sound sleep, if I start shooting I want the identified target just as terrified as I am.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:22 PM
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I am more in the all bets are off approach. If I only have my 5shot Jframe or even 7shot Lframe I want them to be as effective as I can handle. For me I now keep my 340MP w/ Rem GS .38+P, my 60-14 w/ Rem GS .357 and my 686-6 w/Rem 125g .357.

Fully anticipate being deaf if have to light any of these off but deaf is better then dead. Know the muzzle blast will ruin some night vision but would rather it be the blast from behind my .357 then the blast from in front of their muzzle returning fire that does it.

Now I do like the 629 as a good compromise w/6 shots of Silvertip specials w/lower blast and flash but for my .357s if I can effectively fire the .357s that's what they are fed.
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:30 PM
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well both the .38 and the .357 have both been proven to get the job done, if you are running +p rounds from a good company like speer or BB, the you should be good with .38 if you want to go bigger then go bigger, but you really don't have to. Both guns kill people very very well
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapuna View Post
In a home defense situation, how much real difference is there?
Inquiring minds wanna know...

Thanks in advance for any opinions...

Kapuna
My HD revolver is a Model 13 with a 4" barrel. Since it isn't carried, the longer barrel isn't a concern. Matter of fact a 5" barrel for a HD gun might be just about ideal. The longer barrels impart greater velocity, so the 38+P rounds will have more oomph than they would from a snubnose. Even though my M13 is chambered for 357, I feel confident that the FBI loads I keep it stoked with will be plenty ornery if need be.

My experience as been that the blast and noise from a full-house 357 round is pretty brutal in an enclosed space. That's why I like the 38+P.
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:46 PM
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If you're worried about going deaf, you can either purchase Peltor "tactical" hearing protectors - the electronic ones filter out gunshots but still let you hear normal sounds - or else stick your ear plugs in if time allows.
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Old 07-24-2009, 08:38 PM
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If I selected my cartridges around saving my ears, I would look toward low pressre cartridges that push a lot of lead. That is where the .44 spl., and 45 ACP are the natural choices.

Last edited by flop-shank; 07-24-2009 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:01 PM
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My bedroom gun is a .357, but I load it with .38's, simply because it is a lot easier and faster for me to get back on target with the .38's.
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:14 AM
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There's a lot to be said for a 45ACP in a good duty-type semi auto pistol for home defense. It has a good amount of power, limited penetration, and relatively mild recoil for rapid accurate follow-up shots. There's often more that one perp to contend with and they can likely be doped-up and behave badly when shot.


The 45ACP opperates at lower pressure than a 357Mag. It is less likely to cause permanent hearing damage to the home owner and family if fired at bad guys indoors.
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Old 07-25-2009, 10:52 AM
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I had to run out to the garage and verify, but if you have a question on using 38+P or 357mag. You may want to consider the 38+P+ Federal Premium LE round. That should give you a little more power without going all out!
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Old 07-25-2009, 05:50 PM
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I have never had to shoot at an intruder in the dark, while just being woken up from a sound sleep. I doubt that many of us have. I hope I never do either.

That said, There will never be a concensus on this subject, so use what you are comfortable with.

As for hearing loss. Count on it. With almost anything fired indoors. Permanent too.

As for being able to ignore the shock and flash, BULL! It's the reason cops use stun grenades. It works, whether you know it's coming or not. The shock will affect your ability to recover quickly. There's no way around it. It's simply a matter of physics. The shock wave will enter your ear, and disrupt your sense of awareness, as well as possibly your sense of balance.

I recently went through a citizens academy with my local PD. It was a few months in duration, and very well run as well as informative. One full night was devoted to shootings, indoor and out as well as range time with various weapons. Some were fired in the dark to show what will happen. .40 S&W's, .223's, 12 gauges and fully automatic weapons were used. Really a great class. The cops are fully aware of tactical blindness and disorientation from shooting from a squad car, home or outside. They use ammo that is purposefully low flash for an advantage in a fire fight. They practice different thing to keep from getting tunnel vision as well, like keeping your eyes moving constantly.

I keep full power .357's in my gun. I won't squabble over someone who wants to shoot .38 Plus P's. I am not worried about over penetration, but I do wonder if the full house stuff will cause me to loose tactical awareness if there is more than one perp. My main reason is that I want anyone who comes in uninvited to go out dead, and with extreme predjudice. I have more confidence in the ability of my loads to pass through heavy winter clothing than I do slower +p rounds. In the summer, I don't really have a favorite.


To be honest my daily CCW is a 4506 loaded with Corbon +P 230 HP's. I would rather have that in my hand at night too, but my wife can easily pick up the revo and shoot without having to worry about safety's etc.

When it comes down to it, use what you want to, it's you who will be there when the moment of truth comes. None of us will.

These are just my observations and not intended to sway anynoe one way or the other. Just something to think about.
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