Starting to get fall fever and have decided to work up a load for one of my 44's for hunting this fall, all I've found locally have been 180 gr. XTP's, is this bullet going to penetrate enough on a eating size whitetail? Plan on a 1600 fps type of load, anyone here use a 180 for deer?

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I believe my test results for Hornady's 180 gr. XTP factory ammo are posted in the thread titled Perma-Gel Test Results. A search should get you that info. It will work fine, but I suspect that it might not do as well against a heavy shoulder joint as a heavy 240 grainish bullet would.

i use the 300gr. federal castcore ..i have shot through the sholder joint through the chest and exited the far side breaking a rib.one tough bullet at 40 yrds.....

I have never used 180 grainers for hunting but I have used the 210 gr. Remington SJHP and the Remington 240 gr SJHP. The 210's seemed to blow up on rib shots and the lungs looked like they were hit with a shotgun. I wouldn't depend on the 210's to penetrate much bone and I think the 180's would be the same with lack of penetration on some shots. The 240's on the other hand work well and expand to over 50 cal when I can recover them but almost always penetrate completely on rib shots quartering and straight on side shots. With my TC Contender I have taken deer as far away as 120 yards with the 44 mag and the Remington 240gr SJHP and as close as 10 feet. At either distance this round from Remington has worked flawlessly and to my complete satifaction. Accuracy with the 240 grainers has also been better than any 180 gr or 210 grain bullet and I have never had a deer move more that about 50 yards after getting hit with the 240 gr SJHP with a blood trail a blind person could follow.

Not exactly the answer to your question about 180 grain XTP but I hope you can use the info to help you select the bullet that will work best for you. I have used handguns in 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 Colt and the 38 Special (with a 200 grain RN and shot a deer at 5 feet w/ S&W Model 60) to take deer. They all have worked but none as consistently as the 240 grain in the 44 for all types of shots and under all conditions.

Kirmdog

I have killed several deer both with the 180 and 240 grain XTP bullet out of my Super Redhawk. While I have never shot one in the shoulder, when I put the bullet where it should go in the lung area the deer are as good as in the freezer. I try to keep my shots to 50 yards or less and have had great luck with both of theses XTP bullets when I do my part.

I agree with Kirmdog about Rem. 240 SJHP. I've not shot a deer with it, but it went through my block of Perma-Gel (~ 17") like a freight train and showed no sign of stopping soon. It throws off serious secondary fragments and would be my choice for deer.

XTP 180s should probably do better against deer than other 180s because they are designed for deep penetration. I wouldn't expect Federal 180s, for example, to penetrate as well.

The 429421 Keith slug or any of the LBT type cast slugs work SO WELL on big game I would never even fool with the light hollow points. Expansion isn't an issue either.

Why not use the right tool for the job?

FN in MT

Do you guys think hollow points are better for hunting than soft points? I've heard people say that in handguns, you don't get enough velocity with soft points, and are better off with the hollow points.

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Aaron Terry

I'm sure a properly placed 180gr. XTP will work, but my experience with the 44Mag is that my guns get their best accuracy with heavier bullets. I really prefer the 240gr. XTP or a Keith 250 gr. These bullets simply have a greater bearing surface, plus you don't have to worry about penetration. I'd save those 180 grainers for 2-legged varmints.............just my 2 cents!

180 seems a bit light so I agree, shot placement is going to be key (Hey, that rhymed ). It should fill the freezer with a lung shot though.

Availability is the issue here but I prefer a 240gr SJSP or Hornady's LEVERevolution 225gr FTX. I haven't used the Hornady yet but their .30-30 design removes any doubt about their performance. I snatched some up last season and that's what I'll load my Blackhawk with this November. In fact, they're in my Marlin .30-30 and T/C Scout too!

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Fast is fine;accurate is final

Thanks folks I guess I'll try and dig up some 240's, this will be my first handgun hunt for deer and I'd feel awful if I just wounded a deer and it got away. I've always liked Remington SJHP bullets, they usually work very well I'll try and find some.

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Frank237 is right about heavy Keith bullets, so you might want to keep those on your short list.

Nframe357

With todays ammo shortages and lack of finding the boxes of what you are really looking for of the shelves of the local sporting goods store you may have to compromise in what you are shooting. As mentioned, there are a long list of bullets that will work on deer from 180 XTP to Keith type and Federal 300 gr Hard Core, ect. Some of these bullets are known for expansion and others for the penetrating abilities but bottom line is that they will all work with good shot placement as pointed out by several people. I use the Rem. 240 SJHP because I have found that they work well for me on deer and I have complete confidense in them for any shot angle I may take.

Shot placement is the key to any bullet you may use! Practice, practice, practice until you know you can call your shots, use a rest and practice with that also. Know your limitations and your shooting abilities, there is nothing wrong with passing on a shot because you feel that you may just wound and not kill your intended target. Know the limitations of the bullet you chose also. The lighter bullets (180,210) may or may not limit you to broadside shots and you may have to pass on quartering to or quartering away shots and possibly some of the longer shots if you can shoot accurately at longer ranges.


Lastly I would say that when handgun hunting you have to be your own person and not give in to peer preasure. Hunting buddies and family can be a cruel bunch and get upset that deer were in front of you and you have no meat on the ground. You have to know for a fact that when you drop the hammer with game in your sights that you will be hitting where your looking whether it's 10 yards or 100 yards


Sorry for being so preachy, handgun hunting is addictive and I know you will enjoy it. Good luck with the hunt!

Kirmdog

The 180's will work on a lung shot but fail if the shoulder joint is hit. Trust me--- I know! I shot a nice doe at 10 feet in the shoulder, by the time I got to her 3 fields away -- another hunter wasd tagging her and starting the cleaning process. You are much better of with a 240 or 265 grain xtp or 250 grain cast.

I've got a bunch of 250gr. Keiths from Leadhead bullets, they are great bullets but I was kind of hoping for some expansion.They are cast hard Bn20-22 and leave zero lead in the barrel even when loaded with 21gr 2400. Is expansion less important that I've been led to believe? If so I'll just load up a batch of them and get to practicing.

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Some of the longest tracking jobs I have had on handgun deer kills were with the Federal 41 mag 240 grain Hard Core bullets and 44 mag 300 grain Hard Core. These things peretrate like crazy but don't expand at all and left almost zero blood trail making the tracking job even harder. If I use Keith or any other hard cast bullets that I question the expansion I shoot for bone with either the shoulder near me or the off shoulder. IMO with deer the expansion is a plus and I would take advantage of it if you can. The leadheads will work on deer and dead is dead but the expanding bullets may give you a much easier tracking job and let the deer bleed out just a little faster from my experiences over the last 20 years.

Everybody has their favorites but just remember that handgun hunting is more like archery hunting, with a rifle you can shock a deer and drop it with marginal hits, with a handgun like an arrow the deer will bleed out with almost no shock unless you hit the brain or spine.



Kirmdog

It depends completely on where he's hit.For a broadside lung shot,I think the 180 will be ideal.A 240 is preferable if the angle is not so ideal.

About non-expanding bullets.....I've cast and used Keith 429421 by the tens of thousands during the past 40 years+,so anyone telling me what it will do is preaching to the choir however it acts like a "solid" in rifle lingo.It shoots through with little or no expansion.Same with the heavyweights.

Personally,I prefer a jacketed expanding bullet of about 240 grs.

Agreed, expansion is VERY important unless you actually like to track. Think of it the same way as short range shots with a high powered rifle: the bullet goes straight through unless something stops it, no energy is expended, and the deer runs off until it finally drops. Hopefully there will be a trail but more often than not you're on your own. And unless its a double lung shot (sometimes even if it is), that thing will be miles away...

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Fast is fine;accurate is final

I'm new to hunting so I think an expanding bullet will be the way I go, I'd prefer not to have to walk to Missouri to find my deer. I'm going to be doe hunting as I just want the meat and the less she runs the better. Once again thanks guys, I appreciate the input.

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I killed a Whitetail buck using 180 grain Sierras out of a 6.5 inch Model 29. The load was published at 1700 FPS out of a 7.5 inch barrel. My first shot struck the deer on his right shoulder joint, the second hit the ribcage.

When I cracked him open he looked like he had swallowed a mini-frag grenade. He was dead but he was a wreck. Both bullets detonated and while great for varmints, I'd not use a 180 on deer if I could avoid it. The deer was dead alright but I got a lot of what I didn't want - and not much of what I did want - in getting there.

Winchester 240 grain hollowpoints (factory load) and 240 grain XTPs have been great deer killers for me.

Just FYI. By the way, good hunting.

Buckeye, what length barrel was this? I've heard of 180 gr. XTPs having serious fragmentation problems when overdriven. I'm wonering if that might be the case.

Wow! What a bunch of great post from a lot of experience. Thanks for all the cool info guys.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the Keith SWC. So much so , in fact, that I started casting them myself, to be able to shoot more of them.

I have on my reloading shelf XTPs of nearly every weight in .44, as well as a couple of types of Speer 200 grain JHPs, 240 JHPs and even some 300s, somewhere. This year, again, I'll simply be loading my ~260 grain LSWC to around 1100 fps. I know that at any range within my capabilities to place an accurate shot, that bullet will completely penetrate a deer, even on a "Texas heart shot" if necessary.

I've used the 180 on eastern whitetail up to the 150lb range on the hoof here in SW Virginia.I've had great results with the Federal 180 Hi-shock jhp and the Hornady 180 xtp in factory loading.I'm shooting from a 4" 629-1.I have no problem keeping either of these rounds inside a 1"group at 25 yards from a rest and under 2"s offhand.I have taken deer with these loadings out to 60 yards without any problems with broadside shots(through both lungs and heart).I have pretty much copied these loads with my handloads consisting of the Hornady 180XTP and the Sierra 180 jhc on top of a heavy dose of Unique and a Federal LPP.I've found I can reach max velocity and energy with the faster burning powder and accuracy instead of using my favorite slowburners H-110,W-296 and a magnum cap.I also found using H-110 and 296(same thing now) was leaving a lot of unburned powder in the 4" barrel.Out of a 6" or 8-3/8" I forsee no problems with the slowburners.All deer I have shot with the 180 broadside have been killed cleanly,upon examining the the entry and exit during fielddressing and internal organ damage it is very impressive.Just my .02 worth.
Equalizer

Flop shank -- this was out of a 6 1/2 inch 29-2.

Its amazing how nearly everyones experience mirrors others.

My preference would be a 240 jhp, and the hornady xtp's shoot very well.

If I had to use a 180, I would want it to be a xtp due to the fact they are prone to a little slower expansion than conventional jhp's.

Once had an experience with a armadillo at about 6 feet with an old hornady (this was before xtp's children) 180 jhp in a 6 inch dan wesson with a max load of h110 pushing it, The bullet did not exit a foot ball sized armadillo, most everything in the armadillo exited but the bullet did not, can you say hand grenade. so even though the xtp is a much better bullet, 180 gr would not be my first choice.

But... if they were all I could get, I would practice til I could hit what I was aiming at , plan on lung shots and go hunting. Good luck: 308

Thanks for the reply. I've heard enough storys of XTP failure to make me leary of them.

My experience is limited to use of 150 gr HP in the .357M. I always take lung shots and have never lost a deer. All one shot kills. This weight HP will make an exit wound about the size of a quarter. Everything drops within 25 yards.

In my .$$ Spcls and .44 M, I've only used 240-250 Cast bullets. Equally deadly.

Once a long time ago, I was home on leave and had a chance to do a little deer hunting. The only ammo i had brought with me was some federal 180grn. hollow points. They shot great. I was lucky enough to shoot a nice big doe at about 60 yards. She was standing quartering away, one shot. She got up faster than she went down. I hit her again in the lungs dbl. action, down for good this time.When i went to gut her i found the biggest mess i have ever seen inside a deer. The first bullet blew up with very litte penetration. The second went off in the lungs like a grenade! I never used this load on deer again but for grounghogs,wow are they great! This is was out of a Ruger redhawk 7.5in.

I started using Remingtons 240 gr SJHP back in the 1960's. I use IMR 4227 and magnum primers, never chrono'd the load. 100 yard groups are half the size of factory ammo. Only recovered slug I measured ran something like 7/8" on the larger dimension (oval shaped).

Somehow I've always ended up with quartering shots. Never needed more than one round and penetration has been quite good. The slug mentioned above entered the right side ribcage, passed through the liver, both lungs, the shoulder muscles on the left side and was recovered just under the skin. I've never tried anything else, I don't mess with success.

At the time, the Remington 240 SJHP was the most expensively developed bullet in the industry. Development costs were estimated at 1.25 million dollars.

Back in the 80's I hunted with 180gr Super Vel ammo. Over a couple years I managed to kill 4 whitetail deer with this load. That stuff was super deadly.All one shot kills. All went thru. My first kill was on a big doe at about 40 yards. I shot her thru both shoulders. Severing the big bone on one of them. I was curious about the speed of this ammo and was fortunate enough to have Dr Kirchner check it. 3 rounds averaged 1803 fps. I quit using the ammo after getting down to 3 bullets left from the original 40. I tried to dupe this load using the Sierra Manual and bullets but could only manage 1700fps with a lot more recoil and 32gr of ww296. I would hunt deer with 180s any day. Since those day in the 80s I started collecting Super Vel ammo. I have quite a few rounds of 44 but have yet to fire any of it.
I guess my old Model 29 8 3/8" is still up to it. I would have to get re-acquainted with a few rounds. I hope venison still tastes good

Found some 240 XTP's locally finally, worked up a load of 23gr. of H110 for about 1400 fps, shot some last nite. Little flash ans blast wasn't awful, grouped well so we're just waiting for Dec. now.

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Nframe- Our deer season starts in one week-August 15

I have a friend that is notorious for shooting just a little ahead of full daylight if the shot presents itself. Needless to say, he has wounded a few deer.

I'm not sure what happened on the day he took the 180gr 44mag loads to the field. I do know he shot them from a M629 Classic with a 6 1/2" barrel. The results weren't all that good, I do know that!

It seems that a good sized buck, lots of antler he said, came by and he let fly. He is a good shot when he shoots in full daylight. I know none of us would ever rush a shot just because it was a wee tad too early, would we?

At any rate, the round only entered just under the skin. It hit a rib and didn't penetrate into the "boiler room" so to speak.

I think that a heavier bullet would be in order for deer in our size group. The corn fed northern type. 140lb does to 250lb bucks.

Now if I was hunting in say Texas, where a BIG whitetail buck is 100lbs, it would be a different story.

SW282, I could be wrong, but my understanding is that 296/H110 start to push bullets slower once you get past a max load. Perhaps reducing your charge weight will give you a kick in velocity? I'm running a 165 gr. Sierra JHP over 31.5 gr. H110 from my 5" 629 and clocked a single round at 1656 feet per second. I suspect my gun is a little slow, so your 8 3/8" barrel should be launching them a little faster methinks.

f-s, I doubt I would get back into loading 180s after all these years. I tried 30gr of 296 but it was slower than 32. I just wonder what kind of powder and quantity Super Vel used. I am tempted to pull one of the rounds from my collection. What powder would have produced more velocity and less recoil? ww680?

You might want to try contacting Lee Jurras if you're really curious. IIRC, he's on forums somewhere, or you might be able to find his phone number. My guess is that he was using a powder not commercially available, or even blending powders (if that practice was in existence at the time). FWIW, I'm using a heavy roll crimp and CCI magnum primers.

Really? Firearm or bow? It really doesn't matter now, I just lost my contact with the land that I was planning on hunting on. Nowhere to go now...

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Nframe-South Carolina LowCountry. The season begins August15 to Jan1. No weapons restrictions on pistols(no rimfires) and no bag limits. Longest in the nation

One deer I killed with a handgun was with a 7.5" Redhawk .44 Magnum using a handload of 30 grains of H110 and a 180 Sierra HP. Hit a six point buck in the chest...bullet turned the heart to jello, went through part of the right lung and broke two ribs near the end of the ribcage going out...and the 180 Sierra expands a lot more than the XTP does...

You should be fine...deer weren't armored last time I looked...

Bob

The last deer with a pistol was in 1990. I was moving a ladder stand before going to Potter County,Penn for Bear Season. Dragging the stand down the trail,out steps a doe of 60-70 pounds in my path. We both stopped and looked at each other. I slowly put down the stand and decided to do maybe a foolish thing and shoot her. I say 'maybe' because all I had with me was my Chief Special loaded with wadcutters. I aimed for her shoulder with the first round hitting her high and breaking her back. The next one was from 3ft in front of her left ear.
She ate good too. I dont know if I would try that again. It was a legal doe day and I had been shooting regular. 17 yrds was not too far at the time. Wadcutters will kill

Just had to resurrect this thread because l just bought one of the Performance Centers' flashy 2 tone 629 hunters #170318. l have 4 boxes of 180gr Hornady VTPs and 100 once fired WW cases.. Now all l need is choose a pdr..My Hornady seems to like 2400 a lot and l have a bit on hand ,,,
lts been a long time since l took a 44 Smith deer hunting and theres only a couple months left of deer season... Now is good a time as any.
http://www.gunsumerreports.com/revie..._hunter_p2.php