The abuse continues...

Art Doc

Art Doc

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I've discussed my poor old 1942 38 Special Victory Model that was in a pawn shop with a bulged barrel and I bagged it for $60. Got a 5" barrel off ebay for $5 with a serial from around 1938-39 so it's very close to the gun.

I swapped the tubes myself using a bench vise and despite the dire warnings I managed to successfully change the barrel. Then in the face of more hand wringing and howls of protest I fired 500 rounds of Remington +Ps through it to see if anything would happen. I was not surprised when nothing did.

Then I ran 600 rounds of my own +P+ ammo through the gun. This is a 125 JHP at a clocked 1150 FPS from the 5" barrel. Again, no effect was noted.

recently I found an older reloading manual with a recipe to duplicate the 38/44 load with 2400. So I womped some of those up and fired them in the M&P today. Those have a little kick to them and I actually had to use the ejector to remove the empties from the chambers (everything else simply fell out when the barrel was tipped upwards). But otherwise nothing was noted. Other members have reported shooting factory 38/44s in K frames without problems and I believe them.

Fixed sights always seem to shoot left for me but it did group good enough for duty use, IMO.


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NO WAY! It had to have just simply disintegrated. Are you sure? Maybe you have a concussion.

Seriously tho, got a picture of your creation?
 
Saxon, I agree, they are more rugged than a lot think. My standard load is from an "old" Lyman cast bullet handbook and 4.9 gr. 231 with a 158 gr. cast RNFP. Chrono's 906, which should be under +P specs. It was noted in the manual as the most accurate load with that bullet, and it is. I have fired some factory 357's that had less recoil.
 
Hmmm. First 500 rounds of std +p, then 600 rounds of hand-loaded
+p. That alone should have been at least 2 hours, probably 3 hours.
And then some 38/44 rounds, and you noticed nothing after all of this?

I'm not surprised, given all the banging on your hands and arm, and
the noise.

I forget who it was, but someone, a year or two ago, posted a
picture of a 10" reg mag, or maybe it was even longer.

Hmmmm.

Mike Priwer
 
SP, when you go to the zoo, you don't grab the tiger's tail and give it a yank, do you? :D
 
Mike, I did not shoot all that ammo in one day. I spread it over about 6 months or so.

I have posted photos the gun several times. Here it is posing with the +P and some of the +P+ I ran through it.

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Yars ago, I had a prewar Colt Police Positive Special in .38 special. I had some stout .38 special handloads that I had loaded for a M19. IIRC, they were the top 2400/158 gr SWC load in the old Lyman manual.

I shot these in the little Colt. They stung a mite, but there was no ill effects to the revolver.

I believe that Colt even advertised, back in the '30s, that .38/44 loads were safe in the PPS.
 
SP

I see - this is the first I had heard of this gun and the barrel replace-
ment, so I thought that was all very recent.

By the way, when was the gun refinished ? I was expecting it to be
a sand-blast blue, what some call Parkerized .

It would appear you confirmed your point about the guns being
strong enough for +p ammo.

Regards, Mike Priwer
 
nice job...........good for you on having the "pelotas" to go forward with the project
 
Thanks for the pictures. I figured you had maybe posted 'em before, I was too lazy to search 'em out. Good looking piece!

I know these old ones are stouter than a lot give them credit for.
 
SP;

What many of us either believed or strongly suspected, you have confirmed. I imagine the low cost of the initial gun purchase and barrel replacement was enough of an incentive to champion forward with your testing?

Cheers;
Lefty
 
stiab said:
"...howls of protest..." from who? What could happen?
Click to expand...

I will go ahead and be the first one with the howling. I hope there aren't a bunch of sheep out there that are going to read this and try to duplicate your efforts. You are taking a fine old gun and slowly beating it to death. Your gun may be able to "take it" but you are playing with fire and risking personal injury. These are the kinds of actions that result in so many worn out guns on the used market and why used guns have such a buyer beware status.
 
I see no risk at all of personal injury. A K frame will not blow up with +P or even 38/44 ammo. Certainly wear is accelerated somewhat but this is a natural effect of use.

As for beating a fine gun to death, this piece hardly qualifies as a fine gun. Very worn and tired with countless rounds through it before I got it and it was already damaged (bulged barrel) and refinished long ago (with the US Property- or maybe it was US Navy- stamp buffed off) so not much at stake with this gun.

But as I figured all this shooting has done nothing significant to it.

I am not encouraging anyone to do anything. I am merely reporting my experience and observation. I took just about the worst case scenario (pre-model, old and loose from wear) and put it to the test. It passed with flying colors.

I dismiss the notion that +P is a hot load (125@925? Give me a break!) and is unsafe in a quality made gun. I am not ready to make the same pronouncement regarding 38/44 but so far my research (a very limited amount of shooting and reading of others' experiences) doesn't indicate any serious, immediate problems in either a K or even a J frame S&W.

I feel like I have made my point with this gun (even if some folks still won't believe) and will now retire it from further testing. From now on it's just a plinker.


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Dr. Pig-

Is there really no cylinder endshake? How loose do you mean this gun was when you began? Did it get looser?

How is recoil with one of these if you fire .38-44 ammo, if you have any?

I've posted before that S&W told me in the 1960's that the M-10 wouldn't blow up with .38-44 ammo (Plus P was then yet to come), but that continued firing with it would shake the gun loose. They definitely recommended that I get a Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman or a .357 if I needed that much power very often. This advice came at just about the very year that their .38-44 guns were being discontinued.

Frankly, except that they were made in an era when craftsmanship was better, I see no reason to buy a .38-44. They're as big and heavy as a M-27/28, and those add Magnum capability.

Thanks,

T-Star
 
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Oh my God the horror of it all.....

Nice looking rig SP and you dealt a blow to 2 of the "oh my God no" stories that we have all read here countless times.

+p and a bench vice barrel change in one thread. Slow down big fella, what's next, you're probably gonna refinish the thing.....:eek:
 
I seriously doubt that the average guy is going to put 1100 rounds of +P or +P+ ammo in a vintage shooter such as a Victory M&P. I do believe however, that this testing by SP resolves any concern one might have about shooting +P ammo in one, occasionally, which is more likely the case.

Cheers;
Lefty
 
Given the thread's title, I was expecting something along the lines of those T-shirts you see for sale to the tourists in the Caribbean about the beatings continuing until morale improves. :D

Well, we all have our fun with guns in one way or another. I guess you have made your point, but I am not sure where it leaves you... ? It isn't going to change a thing. The modern world is what it is and in this era of lawyers and lawsuits, the manufacturers will keep right on doing what they decide is best.

I think its great we still have the freedom to buy what we want and tear it up as we think best. I don't think it is so great we should be able to bring suit against a manufacturer in the process, but that's what happens. (Not suggesting you would do this, SP, and of course that whole topic is another subject.)

I have to agree with the notion that what we get in ammunition these days does seem pretty watered down. A 44 Magnum certainly isn't a 240 at 1180, in my book anyway, but time marches on. There are some good things though. In my opinion, the quality of factory ammunition seems pretty good today. I am having a terrible time making handloads that outshoot the best of it. :o
 
Nice one, really like that standard barrel...err pencil barrel...err skinny barrel....err...nevermind. Shoots pretty well nontheless. :)
 
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