Target Champion 5" pistol experiences

AlexNL · Dec 8, 2010

Hello All,

I am dutch sportshooter and at my local gun store they have a approx. 4 year old(thats what they say) smith & wesson target champion 5 inch pistol for sale and I am very interested however I cannot find much information at Dutch websites about experiences with this pistol. I would like to ask if you have experiences with this Target Champion, how is the quality?
And is there a possiblity to check the construction year of the pistol by serial number?

Thanks in advance for your informations.

Regards
Alex

Palmetto Sharpshooter · Dec 8, 2010

Hello! The Target Champion is basically a Performance Center PPC-9 (or .45 ACP I think) made for Wischo. There are very few that are here in the States. I believe most were exported. It is one of the most accurate pistols in the world.

If you can get us the Product Code from the label and serial number, someone here can tell you when it was made.

AlexNL · Dec 8, 2010

Hi, Thanks for the informations. I will ask for the numbers and post them. By the way, it is a 9mm similar as the one on the attached picture. Good to hear its very accurate.
I think I will buy it anyway.

Regards
Alex

Extremo · Dec 8, 2010

Serial on my TC begins with WIS so believe it's Wischo specific.

That is the old version of the TC. I recommend You look for the model with full dust cover.
If the gun is in good condition You should negotiate the price. To my knowledge the "half dust cover" is pretty cold on the market.

The gun in itself is a great gun with absolutely zero issues. Still haven't found a gun with better trigger.
Stock recoil spring is a bit heavy but that is an easy fix.

AlexNL · Dec 10, 2010

The number is WIS0951, hopefully you guys know which construction year it has. Thanks.

CALREB · Dec 10, 2010

The first ppc 9s our team got all were WIS guns,like another said Targetmasters with aristocrat sights, they shot best with lighter bullets 115 or 105gr leadfree, 2" at 50yds, then newer models have a extended dustcover but most want alot more money especially for a 6". If that gun is in good condition,bushing is tight,it will shoot better than most 2500.00 1911s, I have several of each and I really believe that the older guns shoot better than the newer models,also Its doubtful that S/W will ever make these guns again,just the 952 model.If you like the doublestack grip and its a good price buy it,you wont be sorry.

AlexNL · Dec 10, 2010

I certainly like the grip. The price that is difficult to say if it is a good price as I cannot find another one for sale in Holland. The price is fixed, 860 usd(650 euro) including 4 magazine and 1 year guarantee, no box.
Do you have an idea how old it could be? What were the production years of this 5". Thanks again.

novalty · Dec 10, 2010

$860 (USD) seems like a steal with the NIB one on GB priced @ $2500.00 (USD)

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

From what I've seen US$850 would be a darn good price for anything but a shot-out PPC 9 in the US. I would snap it up at that price. To me it's more about the condition than the year it was made.

As far as the 'old' vs. 'new' model either one is more accurate than I will ever be. I'll be the first to admit the older cut-away version looks strange at first. It's just not something you see regularly.

As I recall the lighter vs. heavier bullets was related to Smith using different twist rates on the barrels at different times in production. As CalReb noted the _newer_ ones (and I don't think it was a clean cutover with the full dust cover versions) like heavier bullets.

I have both the old and new version and I like the variety of having a little less weight out front on the earlier one. It balances more like a 4" pistol with the advantages of a 5" barrel for me. Honestly I wouldn't mind if my 5" DPA5906 was 'cut away' the same way.

I could be spoiled. If I want more weight on the front I grab a 6" PPC 9s but more frequently I just shoot the a converted 356 Limited or the older PPC 9.

I've never shot one but if you're looking for a local price comparison look to a Sig X-5. I've seen people that have both write that the PPC 9 (more) than holds its own against an X-5.

AlexNL · Dec 10, 2010

sorry my American English is not so good but if I understand it well it is not much money for this gun?

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

No apology needed.

Yes. It's really far beyond 'not much money for' the US version (PPC 9) of that pistol. If I found a PPC 9 in a gun store in the US I would buy it for US$850 unless it was totally worn out. That means I would buy it because it takes a bunch of shooting to wear something like a PPC 9 out.

Now would I see PPC 9 in gun store in the US at that price…only if the seller didn't realize what they had. At the same time it would sit there at that price until someone realized what it was came by and bought it. That's why I think the auction sites are better places to sell things like this. You have a more exposure to people that know what they're looking for.

If you want at ball park price comparison (from everything I've read) you should see what Sig X-5s go for in your area.

Palmetto Sharpshooter · Dec 10, 2010

AlexNL said:
sorry my American English is not so good but if I understand it well it is not much money for this gun?

I'd buy it in a heartbeat for that! If it is two-tone, it is Product Code 170044. The next is the 170117 ltd CS slide (manufactured in 1999?).

I believe both of these have the Lieberman cut-out on the slide. 170143 is the full lug model (I think that is Extremo's gun)

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

novalty said:
$860 (USD) seems like a steal with the NIB one on GB priced @ $2500.00 (USD)

True but I think there a few factors 'driving' the price on that one:
1. As you noted it's NIB
2. I've only seen two or three people in the US note that they had Wischos. That makes them pretty rare even by PC gun standards.
2. The person listing that is a well-known collector

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

Palmetto Sharpshooter said:
I'd buy it in a heartbeat for that!

There you go you have two of us that would buy it at that price. And both of us already have similar versions of that pistol.

I would still put your concerns at rest and compare it to a Sig X-5. Not just on the price front but also build quality.

The other thing on the price of the PPC 9 version of this is that S&W always sold it at a discounted price to Law Enforcement only. They priced the single stack 952 versions much higher. More in line with Sig's custom shop stuff. To me that's why PPC 9 values are more in line with 952 original sale prices on the US secondary market.

Reading what I just wrote....wasn't thinking as outside of the box as I should have. Can you get any local prices on 952s?

AlexNL · Dec 10, 2010

Thank you all, I am convinced and buy it. A sig x5 costs used at least 2 till 3 times more....

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

There you go.

Check the 952 too. I love single stacks but find that I like the PPC 9 better. What you're looking at should on par or above the 952.

Extremo · Dec 10, 2010

Here in Europe it's a bit off to compare it with the X5. You don't see PC Smiths every day here while X5/X6 are very common.

Wischo was (not any longer) the german S&W importer. All Wischo guns and revolvers were built to their specs, that's why You hardly see them in the US. The Target Champion is a PPC9 but with LPA sights and Houge or Nill grips.

For 650 euro it's not much to talk about, just buy it. You can't find a better shooting gun for that kind of money.

Extremo · Dec 10, 2010

swlate:
I don't if the X5/X6 differs between US and euro but comparing them in build quality is insulting S&W. =)

Hammers falling, feed problems and safeties malfunctioning. The few S&Ws in my neighbourhood that I know never had any problem.

swlate · Dec 10, 2010

Extremo said:
swlate:
I don't if the X5/X6 differs between US and euro but comparing them in build quality is insulting S&W. =)

Hammers falling, feed problems and safeties malfunctioning. The few S&Ws in my neighbourhood that I know never had any problem.

That is great! You made my day. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure 'we' still import Sig Xs and do not build them here.

On the lower end…I have never had a flat-out failure with any p220 but my Smith 45s run with _anything_ while the three p220s that I have had were troubled by longer OAL ammo (like the Barnes based stuff). I gave up depending on them with fully loaded eight (or six) round mags. The p220 also did not seem to like soft shooting SWC loads.

As much as I've tried to bond with a 'regular' p220 my CQB/Shorty 45/845 beat out the Elite Carry/Compact/Match flavors of p220 I have had. Not that it is fair comparison but it is what I have to compare. All of that written I use the heck out of Sig .22lr conversion. Put it on a SRT p220 with slim grips and it is a pretty good 'training' piece for the Smith's short reset.

9146gt · Dec 10, 2010

5" 5906 with cut away slide

swlate said:
From what I've seen US$850 would be a darn good price for anything but a shot-out PPC 9 in the US. I would snap it up at that price. To me it's more about the condition than the year it was made.

As far as the 'old' vs. 'new' model either one is more accurate than I will ever be. I'll be the first to admit the older cut-away version looks strange at first. It's just not something you see regularly.

As I recall the lighter vs. heavier bullets was related to Smith using different twist rates on the barrels at different times in production. As CalReb noted the _newer_ ones (and I don't think it was a clean cutover with the full dust cover versions) like heavier bullets.

I have both the old and new version and I like the variety of having a little less weight out front on the earlier one. It balances more like a 4" pistol with the advantages of a 5" barrel for me. Honestly I wouldn't mind if my 5" DPA5906 was 'cut away' the same way.

I could be spoiled. If I want more weight on the front I grab a 6" PPC 9s but more frequently I just shoot the a converted 356 Limited or the older PPC 9.

I've never shot one but if you're looking for a local price comparison look to a Sig X-5. I've seen people that have both write that the PPC 9 (more) than holds its own against an X-5.

Product code for the 5" DPA 5906 with the cut away slide is #170306.They made a few for the IDPA winter nationals.Most went across the pond I think.

Tom

Tom

Target Champion 5" pistol experiences

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