K frame 357's what to look for in terms of "issues"

I currently have a 66-1 that I have had for some time, used to have a 19-4 but sold it a few years back. I want to get another 19 and have found some locally. When I had my 19 and with my 66, there is no evidence of cracking or "hot marks" supposedly caused by running a lot of 357.

I have never heard of this issue until recently and before I buy another one, I want to know what to look for. I have always fired a bit of 357 rounds in my guns, but mostly 38 spc. Never any hot loads. I have been looking and found a 19-3 for a good price, but it has something I have not seen before, what looks like a "hot mark" at approximately the 6 o'clock position near the forcing cone.

Are there any pics of what to look for in a k frame I could see on the internet? I dont want to buy a gun and have it be a suspect piece.

It sounds to me like you've already hit on the potential problems that can be shown in a picture. A cracked forcing cone and severe flame cutting are two of those problems common with the magnum K frames, especially if the gun was on a diet of hot 125gr hot loads.. The "hot spot" you mention is something I haven't heard of.

Timing, push-off and end shake problems are three others that typical pictures wouldn't reveal. You should be able to determine if problems may exist in those categories on your own.

There have been books written on handgun evaluation. To cover all areas of concern that's where I'd recommend you start.

The gunsmithing section of this website is another. I've found that specific questions can be answered by guys who really know their "stuff." If you can get to the internet when you have a question about a specific handgun several of the guys who hang out there can be invaluable...

A lot of 19-5s are observed with cracked forcing cones. Far fewer among the -3s and -4s. Check this area and keep it spotlessly clean because one theory is that carbon build up in the forcing cone causes excessive heat and the resulting cracking.

"The S&W Revolver, A Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen would be an excellent source of information for you. Even if you do not intend to smith your guns, it will give you a better understanding of how they work, what can go wrong, and how they can be fixed.

I think what i am trying to describe as "hot spot" is what one of you described as "flame cutting". It is not on the forcing cone itself, but outside of it, approximately between 6-7 o'clock. Forcing cone itself is fine. I found a website which shows cracked forcing cone issue. Otherwise, it's in good shape, just the (possible?) issue I have described gave me cold feet.

I went to a gun show today and 19's were going for insane prices and selection was scarce. But I got a decent deal on another 66. A 66-2 in great shape. Only thing I wish was it had the original grips. Someone replaced the wood with a set of pachmayr combat grips. Which isnt terrible, but I like the wood better.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "hot spot", especially outside the forcing cone. The flame cutting TDC is talking about is seen on the topstrap, 12 o'clock.

Like Saxon said the forcing cone is a good identifier of a heavily used k frame.
I feed my 66 a diet of 38 special, mostly 125 gr.
I do like to keep 357's around, so I don't get out of practice.

nipster, By "hot spot" do you mean Discoloration? If so this is normal and should be easy to clean off.

The only issue I have with the K frame .357's is PRICE!

Some think the forcing cone issue is more prevalent in 19s than the stainless 66s. Still if you have to shoot 357s, 158 grain only. It's one of those theories you'd hate to find out was a fact.

Here is a page I found some time ago. It does explain about using .357s in a model 19.

Use of Magnum Loads in S&W Model 19 and Other K-Frame Magnums

When I am looking at a K frame magnum to buy, if I see flame cutting on the top strap by the forcing cone this tells me the revolver has seen quite a few 125 gr full power 357 magnums. Then I look at the inner edge of the forcing to see if there is any erosion. If I see this, I pass on buying the revolver. This is what I do with any 357 magnum I am looking to buy. I have seen flame cutting, forcing cone erosion on L frame, Ruger GP100 and yes even a model 28. This tells me the gun has not been taken care of. Here is two pictures of revolvers that have been abused by shooting large amounts of full power magnums.
Regards,
Howard
cracked forcing cone K frame magnum

cracked forcing cone Ruger GP100

What is the acceptable amount of cylinder play when fully locked up? And is this correctable?

RE: Flame Cutting on the top strap, is this a good example of it?

Yes, that's a goodly amount of flame cutting. Looks like it isn't a terrible issue on that specimen, however.

squidsix said:

Yes, that's a goodly amount of flame cutting. Looks like it isn't a terrible issue on that specimen, however.

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It's a 686 currently for sale on gunbroker. I was just looking for examples and stumbled across that.

roaddog28 said:

cracked forcing cone Ruger GP100

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The buildup of lead in the forcing cone of that Ruger probably contributed a little to the crack as well.

SaxonPig said:

A lot of 19-5s are observed with cracked forcing cones. Far fewer among the -3s and -4s. Check this area and keep it spotlessly clean because one theory is that carbon build up in the forcing cone causes excessive heat and the resulting cracking.

Click to expand...

Hey SP, Why would the -5 be more prone to crack than the -3 or -4. I have a couple of -3, -4, and 1 -5. Would the missing pinned barrel cause this?

squidsix said:

Yes, that's a goodly amount of flame cutting. Looks like it isn't a terrible issue on that specimen, however.

Click to expand...

The L frame 586/686 was designed specifially to address shooting the 125 gr mag load. The top strap was made both wider and thicker, as well as the forcing cone.

When shooting magnum loads ALL revolvers to some degree develope flame cutting. Its just a fact of life. K frame Smiths, due to their thinner topstrap, had issues with the cutting actually weakening the frame to the point of potential failure.

The 19-5's were the first crush fit barrels. It took S&W awhile to get it right. There was also a run of bad barrels around this same time.

The barrels were identified by an ammunition manufacturer who examined a barrel that had cracked its forcing cone. S&W at first disputed the problem was the barrel then quietly withdrew the faulty barrels from production and "stored" them. Who knows why they stored them rather than scrapping them. Some time later - still during 19-5 production - a "manager" put the stored, faulty barrels, back into the production line.

This may account for why the 19-5 seems to have the majority of the problems with cracked forcing cones. I've not ever seen any of the alleged "issues" with the stainless K-frame magnums.

I'm one of those who feels the whole alleged "issues" with K-frame magnums is WAY overblown by the internet. I notice the handful of folks on the gunboards constantly telling newbs about "weak" k-frame magnums, usually have very little personal experience with the models and often don't even own one. Or more frequently, allegedly owned one but "broke it with less than one box of <insert your favorite hot ammo> and won't buy another cause theres no more parts for them! And they cost too much too!!" Whatever.

Those of us with extensive experience with K-frame magnums and decades of shooting them, for fun and serious purpose, have usually not seen the problems alleged on the net.

Personally, I posted on different boards since 2004 asking if anyone had a picture of a stainless K-frame magnum with a busted forcing cone. After years of no takers, I asked if anyone had HEARD of a stainless K-frame magnum that broke its forcing cone. No takers until a couple of years ago. Some guy on this board posted a picture of a cracked forcing cone on a model 66. First one I saw since the 66 came out in the 70's. Last one I've seen since. Never seen one in person in looking at literally many thousands of individual 66's.

Oh, when the usual suspects show up to claim that "weak K-frame magnums" are the reason the L-frames came out, ask them to explain why S&W continued to produce "Faulty" "weak" K-frame magnums side by side with the L-frames for an additional 26 years.

So, my only "issue" with the K-frame magnums is that nobody makes them anymore. Nor does anyone make anything as nice as them. Luckily there were many thousands made before they stopped. Regards 18DAI