Holsterless carry inside the belt?

Nathan Forrest · #1 11-02-2009, 09:31 PM

Anyone do this. I tried with my Colt and Browning HP at the range and didn't notice a lot of benefit from my Bianchi inside belt holster.

RogueJSK · #2 11-02-2009, 09:36 PM

One of the main purposes of a holster is to cover the trigger and prevent it from getting snagged on the various things you bump into and rub against throughout the day. It also helps to protect the finish of the gun. By just sticking the gun in your belt, you get neither benefit. It's also not very secure, and would most likely result in the gun falling out with any significant amount of movement. There's nothing to prevent it from getting pushed up out of your belt if you were to sit down, for example.

While I have been known to occasionally stick my 3913 in my waistband without a holster (but with the slide mounted safety on) for quick trips to the mailbox, it's not something that I would recommend doing regularly or for any significant length of time. Especially for a gun without a manual safety, like a Glock.

pact40 · #3 11-02-2009, 09:49 PM

No do overs with firearms!! Thats an accident waiting to happen. If your gun accidentally discharges in your waistband you will wish you had holstered the weapon the right way.

jframefreak · #4 11-02-2009, 09:56 PM

In Ohio, for legal concealed carry the gun has to be in a holster. It may be different in your state, but it wouldn't be worth the risk to me. You run the risk of shooting your governors off, that would hurt!

Ron H. · #5 11-02-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Forrest

Anyone do this. I tried with my Colt and Browning HP at the range and didn't notice a lot of benefit from my Bianchi inside belt holster.

Sir, 20+ years ago, the mode of carry you describe was very common, particularly for 1911s, and was called the "Mexican carry." With the gun on the strong side just behind the hip bone, it's surprisingly secure. Not a good idea with any of the safety-less autos, obviously.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

tops · #6 11-03-2009, 10:34 AM

Put a belt hook on a 1911 Colt so it won't fall through and on down in your pants. It is easier to conceal because you don't have the thickness of the holster. Don't worry about a 1911 or a 1911A1 Colt accidently firing because it is not in a holster. Larry

The Big D · #7 11-03-2009, 10:59 AM

Plaxico Burruss preferred that method of carry, too.

Be safe.

PS:

Not sure what his cellmate prefers.

OKFC05 · #8 11-03-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

I tried with my Colt and Browning HP at the range

I catch you doing that at my range and I will tell you "by-by."
Seriously stupid safety hazard.
And this is a range that allows IPSC Open speed shooting and full auto.

LoboGunLeather · #9 11-03-2009, 11:19 AM

When anticipating self-defense we must consider any number of possible means of assault. In a violent struggle with an assailant a secure holster is the best insurance against losing your weapon, possibly to the attacker.

Get a good quality holster, properly fitted to your handgun.

Best regards.

RufusG · #10 11-03-2009, 11:21 AM

I do it on occasion with Smith DAO autos in the appendix position and used to do it all the time with J and K frames on a Clip-Draw in the same place. It's certainly not ideal but I haven't shot myself or lost a gun yet.

I have given up on IWB holsters as being too uncomfortable and only use OWB holsters. "Mexican appendix" carry is for me more concealed than an OWB but obviously not as secure.

Plaxico had a Glock, and I believe was wearing sweatpants, two things I don't do.

sipowicz · #11 11-03-2009, 11:27 AM

You are 100x more likely to get into a fistfight than a gunfight in your lifetime...you put the rest together...

RufusG · #12 11-03-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sipowicz

You are 100x more likely to get into a fistfight than a gunfight in your lifetime...you put the rest together...

Leave the gun at home and carry brass knuckles?

Pasifikawv · #13 11-03-2009, 02:01 PM

No "plaxico" carry for me. I prefer a well-fitted, tuckable IWB for CC.

kennyb · #14 11-03-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sipowicz

You are 100x more likely to get into a fistfight than a gunfight in your lifetime...you put the rest together...

a huge plus one...an unholstered gun is a problem waiting to happen

mrwildroot · #15 11-03-2009, 04:40 PM

I have heard that the "gangsta" types use a piece of coathanger, and make a hook for the belt that hangs the weapon off the belt/waistband and hooks into the muzzle of the weapon,
Semi-mexican carry, with no holster to implicate them if caught.
Mrwildroot

Lt JL · #16 11-03-2009, 08:36 PM

Back when I worked vice, and to this day lots of vice and narcs and UC cops, if they carry at all, carry Mexican style. Bad guys don't drop big bucks for a Milt Sparks, or a Kramer. a good holster, sometimes any holster marks one as a copper. I carried a Colt Combat Commander that way for a few years .

Nathan Forrest · #17 11-03-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKFC05

I catch you doing that at my range and I will tell you "by-by."
Seriously stupid safety hazard.
And this is a range that allows IPSC Open speed shooting and full auto.

You jumped to conclusions, I don't carry cocked and locked or even with a round in the chamber. Provided two hands are available the slide can be racked as part of the draw. Israeli style. Yeah I know if someone has your arm then the weapon is just a club.

KyWstJoe · #18 11-05-2009, 02:14 PM

Mexican style? No way Jose!

The Big D · #19 11-05-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Forrest

You jumped to conclusions, I don't carry cocked and locked or even with a round in the chamber.

Yikes! Two wrongs don't make a right!!!!

Be safe.

Nathan Forrest · #20 11-05-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big D

Yikes! Two wrongs don't make a right!!!!

Be safe.

Bid D, You don't understand the Israeli method. The pistol is cocked after its brought to face level
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kblY4sdeJxA&NR=1

NE450No2 · #21 11-05-2009, 11:58 PM

Way Back "In the Day" Mexican Carry was very popular.

I used it quite a bit. In fact for a while i carried a 4" S&W 44 Mag on duty, and a 6.5" S&W 44 mag off duty, because the longer barrel was more secure "in my pants"...

When the Milt Sparks, GW Davis holsters hit the market they made Mexican Carry null and void IMHO....

flop-shank · #22 11-06-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Forrest

Bid D, You don't understand the Israeli method. The pistol is cocked after its brought to face level
YouTube - Israeli Instinctive Shooting 1

I can't speak for Big D, but if you're not comfortable carrying a 1911 cocked and locked I would carry something else such as a DA revolver, and in a holster. JOMO

Rafter-S · #23 11-07-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Sir, 20+ years ago, the mode of carry you describe was very common, particularly for 1911s, and was called the "Mexican carry." With the gun on the strong side just behind the hip bone, it's surprisingly secure.

Anyone can call me foolish if they wish, but I have carried Mexican style for 48 years--Highpowers, 1911's, and Glocks. For concealment, I carry in front, over the appendix and under my (button) shirt where the gun rests next to my skin. That way I can always "feel" it. One critical item is an excellent belt worn tight. When I am on parking lots or other areas of risk, the button next to the butt of the gun is left unbuttoned. Access is quick for my right hand.

The finish on guns tends to not look so good after a time, but my carry guns are merely tools that dispense bullets. Pretty guns don't enter into the equation.

That's my input.

Rafter-S

stiab · #24 11-07-2009, 11:22 PM

People have been using Mexican carry safely and effectively with 1911s for nearly 100 years. Anybody who has ever worked undercover had to carry sans holster, no options unless you wanted to take the chance of getting made. A lot of people in these threads tell others what they should or should not do, but too often that is based on limited experience and perspective.

RGS · #25 11-08-2009, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NE450No2

Way Back "In the Day" Mexican Carry was very popular.

I used it quite a bit. In fact for a while i carried a 4" S&W 44 Mag on duty, and a 6.5" S&W 44 mag off duty, because the longer barrel was more secure "in my pants"...

When the Milt Sparks, GW Davis holsters hit the market they made Mexican Carry null and void IMHO....

Null and void? I don't think so if your talking about strong side holster carry. How fast can you access your pistol with a cover garment when you are seat belted into your car? Can you reach it with either hand? Can you reach it with any hand?

Mexican carry behind the left hip, butt forward, even under a tucked shirt can be accessed with either hand while belted into the driver's seat. A tuckable cross draw holster may be as effective, but I've not seen one offered by any of the manufacturers.

Hikertrash98 · #26 11-08-2009, 10:26 PM

I carry my M&P340 with Barami Hip Grips quite a bit while off duty. Works great and sits low enough AIWB that it stays put.

mtheo · #27 11-10-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafter-S

Anyone can call me foolish if they wish, but I have carried Mexican style for 48 years--Highpowers, 1911's, and Glocks. For concealment, I carry in front, over the appendix and under my (button) shirt where the gun rests next to my skin. That way I can always "feel" it. One critical item is an excellent belt worn tight. When I am on parking lots or other areas of risk, the button next to the butt of the gun is left unbuttoned. Access is quick for my right hand.

The finish on guns tends to not look so good after a time, but my carry guns are merely tools that dispense bullets. Pretty guns don't enter into the equation.

That's my input.

Rafter-S

I carried a model 38 for four years ( late 70's) using a Barami Hip Grip over the appendix between my Jockeys and Levis covered by the hem of a "T" shirt in the summer and the hem of a sweatshirt in the winter. The tight belt was essential... I was quite active with this mode of carry and never lost the gun nor was anyone ever aware I was carrying. Rust was a given. I kept the chambers and bore swabbed with Rig. During the first summer I finally taped off the appropriate areas and spray painted the cylinder and barrel black. Problem solved.

If you ever come across a model 38 with most of the black oxide worn off the aluminum, black spray paint on the barrel and cylinder and a set of original grips that smell like kerosene...let me know ...I foolishly traded it for a model 60.... I should have kept it.

NiklasP · #28 11-10-2009, 10:50 PM

This past summer I commonly carried J-frame tucked twixt a tight Ace backbrace and a t-shirt, with a loose shirt over. Worked fine but did require some care where muzzle and front sight was, least one lose a bit of skin. Gun is stainless and did get damp and a wipe-off each evening was needed. Later I put it in a thin, stiff leather holster, which kept me from losing any more skin. Ace backbrace was under pants -- made pit stops easy.

Now I just put gunbelt, holster and J-frame on UNDER my pants -- a very secure IWB rig. Only grip of gun and bit of holster are above waist band. Nice rig for when you gotta drop your pants.

Niklas

SF1973 · #29 11-11-2009, 03:29 AM

Similar to the "Rafter-s" method, I've carried both a Jframe and Glock with nothing but a clipdraw. It was always in the back of my mind that somehow the trigger would get snagged, so I now carry those two appendix in a VERY minimal holster. Mr. Softie I believe it's called. I still like the quick access and great concealment that this position allows.

Frizzman · #30 11-11-2009, 09:34 AM

I don't use that carry style for several reasons. First, I don't like to keep my belt that tight. I have some extra flesh around the middle and its uncomfortable. I like breathing too much. Second, the gun jammed into that flesh for hours get pretty uncomfortable. I tend to sweat something akin to sulfuric acid and can rust a stainless gun in a day's carry. Last, I don't like to have to worry about the gun falling down my pants leg and getting kicked across the parking lot. I saw that happen to another cop and he was mortified when a suspect picked his pistol up and gave it back to him...he was damned lucky too.

If you carry in a style that causes you to frequently pat the area to make sure the gun is still in place or frequently readjust it in your waist band, you will give the fact that you are armed away. If you are not working as a LEO in UC status, the need to skip the holster is moot. My advice, for what its worth as someone who has carried concealed for 35 years is get yourself a good holster. Oh, and this isn't Israel. No disrespect to our Israeli friends but that is foolish for street carry. This isn't a game!

sipowicz · #31 11-11-2009, 11:56 AM

Well said Frizzman...

RufusG · #32 11-11-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frizzman

I don't use that carry style for several reasons. First, I don't like to keep my belt that tight. I have some extra flesh around the middle and its uncomfortable. I like breathing too much. Second, the gun jammed into that flesh for hours get pretty uncomfortable. I tend to sweat something akin to sulfuric acid and can rust a stainless gun in a day's carry. Last, I don't like to have to worry about the gun falling down my pants leg and getting kicked across the parking lot. I saw that happen to another cop and he was mortified when a suspect picked his pistol up and gave it back to him...he was damned lucky too.

If you carry in a style that causes you to frequently pat the area to make sure the gun is still in place or frequently readjust it in your waist band, you will give the fact that you are armed away. ...

All legitimate points that may apply to some folks, and may not apply to others.

For me, the most uncomfortable way to carry a gun is any IWB holster, so much so that I just won't do it.

And the least make-able method IMHO is Mexican appendix carry. YMMV, and so it seems it does.

tops · #33 11-11-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiab

People have been using Mexican carry safely and effectively with 1911s for nearly 100 years. Anybody who has ever worked undercover had to carry sans holster, no options unless you wanted to take the chance of getting made. A lot of people in these threads tell others what they should or should not do, but too often that is based on limited experience and perspective.

Right on! Also before concealed carry permits.

NE450No2 · #34 11-20-2009, 03:16 AM

To RGS and others...

First RGS... You have a VERY valid point, when in a vehicle. Car jackings are a real problem.

Two soutions, a handgun that is in a secure spot in the vehicle tjhat you can get to quickly, or a "carjacking" holster worn just to the left of your belt buckle.

To the Others.

I Mexican carried for many, many years...

For regular concealed carry, on duty, off duty, or civilian concealed carry, get a Milt Sparks type Summer Special, or some other quality holster...

For LEO undercover work, you are correct, a holster is a give away...

As is certain types of handguns...

But if you are a UC I do not need to give you advise... At least on an open forum...

ImprovedModel56Fan · #35 11-20-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Forrest

Bid D, You don't understand the Israeli method. The pistol is cocked after its brought to face level
YouTube - Israeli Instinctive Shooting 1

Maybe he does and you don't. The Israeli method turns a one-hand weapon into a two-hand weapon. They have [feeble] excuses for their method (historical reasons, if you like), but they don't apply to us.

Did you ignore Sipowicz's first post?

Aglifter · #36 11-20-2009, 12:38 PM

The most comfortable way for me to carry my 329 NG is w. a clip draw -- I bought some nice holsters for it, and now prefer a shoulder holster, but the clip draw works fine -- I tried "Mexican" once, and I couldn't keep it in place very reliably. I can't see any safety concerns w. a DA revolver and a clip draw.

I do Mexican carry my P226 occasionally, but usually just for quick trips to the store, etc.

Where Mexican or clip draws really shine is in a car -- it's very easy to slide it over to a comfortable and accessible position.

MaximumLawman · #37 11-20-2009, 05:42 PM

I think Mexican style is a lot more secure than some of the open top/no thumb break holsters I've seen. I carried without a holster for many years before pretty much reverting most of the time to a J Frame in a pocket holster. I still carry Mexican style on occasion, usually with a Colt Officer's Model or larger auto. Most of the cops I know used to carry a J-Frame with either Barami hip grips or rubber bands on the grip. Many of the older guys still do. I don't know anyone personally who has shot themselves or anyone else carrying this way. Worst case scenario I'm personally aware of is a J-Frame sliding down a pants leg and skidding across the grocery store floor. Hence the rubber bands.