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Old 01-30-2010, 02:33 PM
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Question ***UPDATE***June 2011***H.R 218 LEOSA... How's that working out for fellow retirees?

H.R. 218 was enacted July 22, 2004, which gave all active duty and retired law enforcement officers the right to carrying concealed weapons in any US state, exempting/amending them from The Gun Control Act of 1968.
The law works fine for current LEOS but there has been a problem at least in my home state of New York (no surprise) for retirees because in the H.R. 218 wording retirees have to "qualify" to be able to use this law. Respective departments are suppose to issue photo ID'S saying the retired LEO from their departments have passed shooting qualifications (1 year qualification, must be renewed every year) in compliance with H.R. 218. and put the gun(s) make, caliber and serial number on the ID card. That has caused alot of problems, as alot of State Governors who dislike or are totally anti-gunners, have set their own rules of qualifications, which don't conicide with another states, giving Governors the power to say no retired LEOS allowed in my state, since they don't met my qualifications, which can change at will to suit their needs.
In my area of upstate New York, other problems have come up such as, departments can't afford to have current/active range officers supervise the qualifications, to which our retirees group responded we have retired range officers willing to donate their time to for this, then we were told there would/might be an insurance question/problem using the Public Safety indoor range,.... what if someone got hurt? Our reponse was we retirees would sign waviers, just like civillians do on ride alongs. This goes on and on.
Last year I met a retired deputy sheriff from Florida who had such an ID card, and said that his department went out of their way to get all the retirees who wanted one of these H.R. 218 ID cards to get one.
Speaking of Florida, I just renewed my Florida Concealed Weapon and Firearm License for the third time this month. The license is good for (7) years and is good in alot of states (too many to list) even though I live in New York. I have family in Georgia and friends I stay with in Florida so this license works great for me.
So my question to fellow retirees..How is this H.R. 218 working out for you, and are you having similar problems like us here in New York? Any input from you might help resolving our problems up here. Thanks.
***UPDATE***I am pleased to say that as of June 30th 2011, all the bugs and other problems were finally worked out, and I took the approved Hr 218 LEO Safety Act of 2004 course here in Monroe County, New York, and passed with flying colors, and now have a certificate/Id card granting me permission to carry a revolver or automatic pistol anywhere in the US. The approved course is open to all retired LEOS regardless where the LEO was employed, as long as the LEO meets the requirements set forth by HR 218. In my class there was a retired LAPD SGT. who recently moved back to upstate New York. These courses will now be given every month. It took for us here almost seven years to finally get this certification course approved, and moved forward, but now there should be no more problems in the future. Thanks to the powers to be, and the hard work our retirees union did to finally get this done. I personally feel that all concealed pistol licenses should be good in all states, just like driver's licenses, etc, but unless things change with the US Congress, I don't see that happening, any time soon.

Last edited by Model39; 10-02-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:40 PM
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HR 218 needs to be clearer....it's federal so every state should abide by it...but some states seem to think they can get around it....NYC will not honor it for out of state officers...I have no idea why the NYPD commissioner would have a problem with retired cops carrying...let's see how he feels when he retires...

Here is NYPD/NY City putting its spin on things
July 1st, 2005
New York City Pistol Licensees
Commissioner Ray Kelly has screwed you again!
Letters are going out from NYPD Pistol License Section, to all individuals under their jurisdiction (civilian pistol license holders and retired MOS (retired NYPD Police Officers) who have been issued a NYC Pistol License.
If, when you acquired a semi-auto pistol, and indicated on your purchase document a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds, you will have to prove prior to your next renewal that you legally disposed of such. No Exceptions.
Proof of legal disposal shall be a receipt from a licensed Gun Dealer or active police officer. No other method will be accepted.
Criminal penalties for possession of high-capacity ammunition feeding devices, by pistol license holders and retired NYPD MOS have been put into place. Regardless of when manufactured, or how marked, or when imported into NYC or NYS, they are now contraband, and are not ?grandfathered?.
Retired NYPD MOS who hold NYC Pistol Licenses are no longer exempt. Your ?issued? mags are now contraband.
July 1st, 2005
Retired NYPD MOS who wish to take advantage of H.R. 218 and carry outside the state of New York; Commissioner Ray Kelly has screwed you too!
Regarding retired NYPD Members of service and the federal provisions granted under HR 218. As per Commissioner Ray Kelly, the NYPD shall be the only entity who will provide federally recognized firearms training and provide identification of such qualification. For NYPD retirees who wish to possess a firearm, that must be department approved while traveling outside the state, Commissioner Kelly has indicated that only the make, model and caliber that the officer carried while ?on-the-job? will be accepted. The department?s Division of Legal Matters shall be the sole arbiter as to whom and which retired MOS shall be able to qualify. It has been indicated that medical retirees will not be able to qualify to carry under H.R. 218, since their medical condition prevented them from serving as a police officer. It has also been indicated that any officer applying for status as ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree? will have their personnel file reviewed for any debilitating entries that can be utilized in the denial of such an application. The Commissioner has redefined what it means to be a ?retired? police officer. He has effectively divided the department in two; those who will be allowed to exercise their federal right and those who will not. The NYS Dept. of Criminal Justice Services is the sole arbiter regarding the method of instruction and the parameters of the identification card. Firearms Training Section will be the administrator of all such training and the department will be charging several fees for obtaining such a formal designation as a ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree?. The Commissioner has decided that by doing so, it will eliminate ?the corruption of the system?, by outside training entities. Retirees living outside the state will only be recognized as an ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree? only when they return to Rodman?s Neck and re-qualify. No other state?s training system will be recognized by the NYPD as a valid certification of HR 218 compliance
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:55 PM
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Correction Sip: NYC (NYPD) will not train ANY retirees for 218 purposes, even if the retiree is willing to pay the cost of doing so.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:29 PM
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Sue'em. Everyone else does.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:40 PM
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LEOSA does not mandate a state or agency to do anything. Nothing in that statute says an agency has to issue a retired ID card nor does it say a state or agency has to qualify a retiree. What LEOSA says is that if an agency or state is going to qualify retirees then the method and requirements are specified in the statute.
Additionally, no state can opt out of LEOSA. And no state has no more than they can opt out of any other federal law. If you check the Congressional record you'll find there was discussion to include a paragraph to allow states to opt out. That was soundly tossed. Therefore, the legislative intent of LEOSA is very clear.
Even NYC is abiding by LEOSA. Out of state/out of town LEOs visit NYC everyday and carry within the requirements of LEOSA. If you've ever visited NYC and interacted with NYPD, even prior to LEOSA, then you'd know what I mean. They have been, and are, very accommodating. There are so many erroneous and outright fictitious rumors passed around about NYPD and other cities that no one ever checks for validity but continually repeat them as if they are fact. On another list just within the week a firearms trainer from another state posted a long winded post how IL doesn't honor LEOSA and that IL was the last state to implement a LEOSA program. None of that was anywhere near the truth. In fact, a complete opposite of the truth but he posted it as if he knew what he was talking about. Unfortunately, he was full of hot air or something because none of it was true. Instead of checking the facts h just repeated what he'd heard and embellished it a bit.
To answer the OP's question, IL was one of the first states to fully implement LEOSA so retirees could get qualified. In fact, from what we found at the time IL may have been the first to get our program up and running. Other states contacted us to use our program as a basis for setting up their programs. It works pretty smoothly here. If a retiree's former agency won't qualify a them then they can download the required forms off the internet, send them to the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board, and the retiree will be sent a list of qualification sites and dates where the retiree can choose to shoot. Shoots are held all over the state thru the Mobile Training Units. After qualifying the range officer forwards the qualification papers to the ILETSB and a certification card usually gets to the retiree within the week. Again tho, the retiree has to have the retired ID from his former agency. That is a requirement set by LEOSA but LEOSA does not mandate that an agency has to issue such retired ID card.
Here's the website where IL retirees can go to get the forms and info concerning the program. Illinois Retired Officer Concealed Carry Program - IROCC
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:46 PM
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There is waaaaaaay too much erroneous information regarding LEOSA. I strongly suggest everyone who is affected READ the law!

That said, the great state of Maryland is wholly proactive and accomodating regarding qualification of state residents. Residents is important. If you are a resident of the state you can be qualified for LEOSA purposes even if your LE orgainization did not choose to qualify you pursuant to the provisions of LEOSA.

I am happy to be a resident of Maryland and affected by enlightened leadership as evidenced by the acceptance and recognition of LEOSA. FYI, I retired in 2005 and have qualified five (5) times.

Be safe.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:51 PM
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My post above overlapped the post by ispcapt. It's interesting (at least to me!) that we both reference the patently false info that is being circulated.

Read the law. It's Federal law and thus not subject to state review.

Be safe.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
My post above overlapped the post by ispcapt. It's interesting (at least to me!) that we both reference the patently false info that is being circulated.

Read the law. It's Federal law and thus not subject to state review.

Be safe.
Ya beat me to it!
Some of the stories out there about LEOSA are beyond belief. Makes a person wonder if some of these story-tellers have even read the statute. And if they have read the LEOSA statute then it's even more amazing that they read so much misinformation that isn't there.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:19 PM
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A big surpise in this whole disaster has been the state of NJ.

Any qualified retired LEO who resides in NJ can get a retired permit to carry, which requires twice annual qualification with a qualified instructor on the NJSP list and a $50.00 renewal.

Now the interesting part, if you move out of NJafter getting the permit, you can keep the permit, as long as you find a qualified instructor on the NJSP list to qualifiy you and pay the renewal fee. This is your proof of qualification anywhere else you go.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:29 PM
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I have my GA Firearms License that covers me in states that extend reciprocity, and my LEOSA documentation for those that do not....so, it works well for me.

I don't know how other states handle it, but under LEOSA for Georgia you may qualify with revolver or semi-auto and this is so indicated on the card. You may do both if you wish, but separate documentation must be provided for each and you also get two cards (for $15 each). I don't know why they won't let you qualify for both on one paper and then just get one card, but I suspect it is a money thing.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:39 AM
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Should have noted this previously, but MD no longer allows quals with both a revolver and a semi-auto to allow CCW of both types of handguns.

The reason is interesting...the LEOSA requires quals per state off-duty LEO CCW carry and MD requires "night fire" for active duty personnel. We now must qualify with a "night fire" component, and time constraints don't permit both revolver and semi-auto courses of fire.

Though I did prefer to have a carry option, I wholly understand and am more that happy with their continued support of LEOSA.

Be safe.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:15 AM
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As far as I know, Hawaii is a world in it's own for retired LEOs.

I really wouldn't push it if you came here carrying under that law.

Remember, Hawaii does Not issue CCW to citizens.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiBear View Post
As far as I know, Hawaii is a world in it's own for retired LEOs.

I really wouldn't push it if you came here carrying under that law.

Remember, Hawaii does Not issue CCW to citizens.

Once again, LEOSA pre-empts state law...any state...as it pertains to CCW by qualified retired LEO's...and active duty LEO's, obviously.

Be safe.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:45 AM
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Looks like Hawaii is set up to qualify their retired LEOs.
From the Hawaii AG website:
Law Enforcement Index Page — Attorney General

Also what Big D said. A state does not have the option to simply ignore LEOs/retirees from carrying under LEOSA. It's federal law. They can no more ignore that statute than they can any other federal law. The states know that.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:55 AM
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Here in Indiana it's up to the local departments to take care of their retirees. The US Justice Department will no allow it's agencies to qualify their retirees so they have to find a friendly local department to qualify them and issue the photo id card. It's worked ok for me sofar.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:38 PM
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As for me, it's easy...too easy. I qualify at my PD range once a year. Fifty rounds with an auto or revolver. You do not have to carry the handgun you use for qualification purposes. Except if you elect to carry a revolver, you must shoot a revolver for a passing score or the same goes for an auto. Afterwards I get an official card to carry along with my retiree's police ID. Any suburban department officer can use the city PD range as well if they have no other range available. It's simple and quick. I've never heard of any negative issues of any kind.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:23 PM
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I had the rangemaster position at my job for a few years, I qual'd all of our retired guys, and any out of town/out of state LEOs that showed up on our twice a month range dates.
We used the KS-CPOST qual course so everyone knew what it was and could practice if they wanted to.

It doesn't have to be hard, but some folks are just "that way" I guess.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:13 PM
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I hate to even call IL's minimum standards as a qualification course. More accurately it should be called a function check. Below is the minimum qual course for all IL LEOs and what is used for the retiree LEOSA shoot. Agencies can have a different qual course instead of the state minimum but their course cannot be any easier than the state minimum.
Sadly there are some, both active and retired, who haven't been able to make the state minimum.

30 rounds for revolver or auto -
12 rounds from the five yard line;
12 rounds from the seven yard line; and
6 rounds from the fifteen yard line.
Requires 21 hits out of 30 rounds within the 8 Ĺ x 14 target area - 70% proficiency.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:52 PM
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Having recently retired from my LEO position after 19 !/2 years of duty, I went thru the Clark County METRO's HB 218 requirements for receiving the HB 218 "Retired Officer's Carry Card". The paperwork was minimal and the qualification required was from any duly certified police agency in Clark County. I happened to have business with a fellow Range Master LEO. He ran me thru his agency's standard qualification course for both revolver and autoloader. The card issued by METRO is titled: "STATE OF NEVADA, Retired Peace Officer Firearms Certification". It specifically states that I qualified with "Revolvers and Semi-Automatics". I do have to re-qualify once in each subsequent year with any agency prior to renewal. So far I haven't been out of state to test the waters, so to speak. My 'carry card' does not have my picture. I was told by the issuing officer to just carry my retired ID from my agency with me at all times. .......... Big Cholla
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Cholla View Post
Having recently retired from my LEO position after 19 !/2 years of duty, I went thru the Clark County METRO's HB 218 requirements for receiving the HB 218 "Retired Officer's Carry Card". The paperwork was minimal and the qualification required was from any duly certified police agency in Clark County. I happened to have business with a fellow Range Master LEO. He ran me thru his agency's standard qualification course for both revolver and autoloader. The card issued by METRO is titled: "STATE OF NEVADA, Retired Peace Officer Firearms Certification". It specifically states that I qualified with "Revolvers and Semi-Automatics". I do have to re-qualify once in each subsequent year with any agency prior to renewal. So far I haven't been out of state to test the waters, so to speak. My 'carry card' does not have my picture. I was told by the issuing officer to just carry my retired ID from my agency with me at all times. .......... Big Cholla
As in Big Cholla's case, if the photographic credentials issued by the organization from which you retired do NOT also contain the qualification endorsement you must carry that photo credentials card AND the card from the qualifying organization. No exceptions of which I'm aware.

Be safe.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:28 PM
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I retired 4 years ago from NM and moved across the state line to Arizona both states have set up a good system for retirees. In AZ I carry my retired Photo ID Card and a card issued by AZ DPS showing that I qualified to Arizona standards.
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:04 AM
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I retired in 2007. Our process is to qualify with whatever gun we wish to carry; the record of the qualification with the Rangemaster's signature is on a standard address label which is affixed to the back of my retired ID card.
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Old 02-02-2010, 12:34 PM
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i qualified last fall here with the dept.i retired from...i'm still waiting on the new card making machine in order to be issued same
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Old 02-02-2010, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
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i qualified last fall here with the dept.i retired from...i'm still waiting on the new card making machine in order to be issued same


???????????

Am I missing something, perhaps?

Be safe.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:54 AM
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previously these cards were made by an academy we were a part of...they also did firearms qualification...now the PD issues the concealed cards to the retired officers...problem is it's a new machine and has some set up issues
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:43 PM
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Does anyone know what WA did/is/is not doing regarding qualifying retired LEO's? I moved here recently and none of the officers I've talked to seem to know anything about this other than that HR218 exists. Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsbrae View Post
Does anyone know what WA did/is/is not doing regarding qualifying retired LEO's? I moved here recently and none of the officers I've talked to seem to know anything about this other than that HR218 exists. Thanks!
Google "leosa" and whatever state you're interested in. Usually it will turn up something.
For WA state:
Washington Association of Sheriffs & Police Chiefs
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:14 PM
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MA has recently implemented a LEOSA qualification program. It falls under 515 Code of MA Regulations (CMR) for training and qualifications standards and 501 CMR 13.00 ID Card Standards. Iím a certified LEOSA instructor in MA (also a current chief of police).

The only fly in the ointment in MA is, for me to even qualify a MA retired officer that officer must possess an ID card that meets the very specific verbiage outlined in the CMR. I doubt if more then a handful of officers possess such a card at this time (and, yes, I sure do). Hereís where it gets a bit silly. I cannot legally qualify a retired MA officer unless they have the correct ID card. Out of state officers? Not a problem. I spoke with the state police in regard that question and the response was, well, out of state offices canít be expected to possess a MA ID card!

Iím sure it will get squared away eventually. In the meantime Iím ready, willing and able to start qualifying folks!

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Old 02-17-2010, 11:32 PM
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Also be aware concerning NJ: LEOSA or not, you have to download your normal carry hollowpoints and go to FMJs if you are from out of state... Could be they were yanking our chain, but this is what we were told by NJSP when we contacted them last October. We were on the way to Massachusetts to teach a class and were only passing through.

Regards,
Mike
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:37 PM
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Raven6, that's the correct info in regard NJ. A buddy of mine is a retired chief of the Passaic County Sheriff's Office. He has to carry non-hollowpoint ammo in his sidearms now. Sucks, I know.

What to do:

Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammo for semi-autos is OK. Also Cor-Bon ammo is good. So long as there is no hollow in the nose is all they care about.

Buffalo Bore 150 grain wadcutters loaded to a nice velocity is a great choice for .38 Special/.357 revolver carriers.

Rich
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:19 PM
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I'm new here, but I wanted to say that the state of Florida is pretty accommodating about HR218, and numerous agencies provide regular qualifications throughout the state. I qual'd last year at the Coral Springs PD, and will go back again this year. They are super friendly and helpful, and you're done in about an hour.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:17 AM
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Subsequent to my first post here, I contacted my county and city departments. Neither will qualify "outsiders" due to time, money and liability issues. As a retired Fed, my agency doesn't do it either. Unofficially, my lawyer said to do it myself and keep good records. At least if the SHTF, it shows you did your best to comply. I think the Fed needs to come up with one course for all Federal retirees, reduced in number of rounds, distances and night quals. We're no longer on the street, so a defensive course seems just right, practical and reasonable. I can't understand states which limit a retiree to one gun and specific ammo. Do what is right for your laws, conscience and limits of iability. It's on YOUR shoulders now...no more department protections. Do the right thing.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:55 AM
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scotsbrae- I don't know where in Washington you're living but if you're anywhere near the Portland metro there is an agency that offers a qualification in the spring that they open to all retirees (Ore. or not). The cost is $35 and a pictured id card is issued after qualification. Each shooter must supply their own ammo. It's the best we can do until Wa. gets their stuff together. If you want info e-mail me. rkesselsr@pacifier.com Roger
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:51 PM
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Im also from Illinois and have been retired for 5 years after having served for 30.I was able to qualify through my department until a new mayor was elected last year(also a retired cop from our department by the way).Well in his new found political wisdom he decided that retirees could no longer qualify through the department (hes also a special with a different agency and qualifies through them).Fortunately,as ISP Capt has said ,Illinois has made it fairly easy to qualify( for those whose departments have abandoned them which sadly are quite a few).That said Im looking forward to passage and implementation of the proposed amendments to HR218 which will allow certified Instructors to qualify retired officers using state or local qualification standards.This will relieve us from the whims of some states and many departments that have chosen to ignore our past service!
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:30 PM
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Forty minutes from the Canadian border...thanks for that information though!
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:09 PM
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We issue a card stating the date and weapon you qualified with on our "Off Duty" gun course (which is the same course we run for low light, just no flashlight). I believe being a retired officer qualifies as "off duty" .

I've qualified a few retired officers from other agencies, in fact I had the legalities of our program researched by the department attorney, who was among the first of the "other agency" officers that shot thru the course.

I believe our State Police Academy will also requalify officers if there's a problem getting back with their old agency.

I wondered about New Jersey law in regards to hollow point ammo. How do they handle current officers carrying jhp ammo? Our agency policy requires us to carry hollow points both on and off duty...

Last edited by Rick R; 03-01-2010 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:21 AM
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As best as I can tell, NC has pretty much dropped the ball on this. I retired in '08 from Raleigh, the capital city, and there is nothing in place.

Word was that range and training staff were working on the issue, but budget constraints and liability issues had all plans put on permanent 'hold'.
If anyone knows of an agency in NC that is qualifying retirees, I'd like to hear about it.
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Old 03-02-2010, 08:35 AM
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We issue a card stating the date and weapon you qualified with on our "Off Duty" gun course (which is the same course we run for low light, just no flashlight). I believe being a retired officer qualifies as "off duty" .

I've qualified a few retired officers from other agencies, in fact I had the legalities of our program researched by the department attorney, who was among the first of the "other agency" officers that shot thru the course.

I believe our State Police Academy will also requalify officers if there's a problem getting back with their old agency.

I wondered about New Jersey law in regards to hollow point ammo. How do they handle current officers carrying jhp ammo? Our agency policy requires us to carry hollow points both on and off duty...
Rick, I sense some confusion. If you are currently an active duty LEO you are covered for CCW in all states. You do NOT need a separate card or "special" firearms qualifications. You only need your photo identification issued by your organization. LEOSA essentially presumes one meets organizational firearms standards.

Reitired LEO's must qualify, at least, every 12 months with a recognized course of fire used by active duty personnel. They MUST carry a card certifying they are certified by the issuing organization/state AND a photo identification from the organization from which they retired. (That can be one card but in my experience that is rare.) Off duty firearms courses are recognized and accepted.

You cannot carry hollow point ammo in New Jersey regardless of what your agency policy stipulates. And, of course, agency policy doesn't apply to retired personnel.

Hope this is useful.

Be safe.
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:46 PM
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Big D,

We started with the cards when LEOSA was a new concept for everyone. As the concept has matured we've learned that the cards aren't necessary for current officers, but a few like them to show they're qualified with and authorized to carry an off duty weapon. We had one officer who's gun was stolen out of state and his card had his serial number so he could get it entered into NCIC.

We do issue them for retired officers when they come out to requalify however, our state makes a free ccw available to retired officers so we rarely get the old guys at the range.

The more I hear, the more I believe NJ is one of those places I don't really have much reason to go to.

thanks

Rick

Last edited by Rick R; 03-02-2010 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 03-02-2010, 03:01 PM
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Big D,

We started with the cards when LEOSA was a new concept for everyone. As the concept has matured we've learned that the cards aren't necessary for current officers, but a few like them to show they're qualified with and authorized to carry an off duty weapon. We had one officer who's gun was stolen out of state and his card had his serial number so he could get it entered into NCIC.

We do issue them for retired officers when they come out to requalify however, our state makes a free ccw available to retired officers so we rarely get the old guys at the range.

The more I hear, the more I believe NJ is one of those places I don't really have much reason to go to.

thanks

Rick
Gotcha, Rick; now understood.

BTW, travel through New Jersey often and lived there for a few months. The LEO's there obviously don't go around checking weapons. I carried to/from work, in uniform, regularly. Even carried on board many, many flights out of Newark. I daresay, however, one could get really jammed up (pun intended) if involved in an "bad" incident and was found to be carrying illegal ammo.

Be safe.

PS:

It is worth a trip, though; New Jersey grows the very best tomatos. The best!
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:03 PM
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As best as I can tell, NC has pretty much dropped the ball on this. I retired in '08 from Raleigh, the capital city, and there is nothing in place.

Word was that range and training staff were working on the issue, but budget constraints and liability issues had all plans put on permanent 'hold'.
If anyone knows of an agency in NC that is qualifying retirees, I'd like to hear about it.
The NC General Assembly passed General Statute 14‑415.26. "Certification of qualified retired law enforcement officers" in 2007. The statute requires Training and Standards to adopt a certification process for retired officers to comply with HR 218. Unfortunately our Attorney General and his staff have failed to comply with the law and I am told they have no intent of compliance.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:17 PM
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I've been retired since 2001, a former HR-218 activist and have qualified annually since 2005 when our state (Oregon) legislature adopted the HR 218 language and set standards through our state certification board. I take great pleasure in carrying in California frequently.

In places such as NJ, NYC, etc., it's going to take someone getting arrested and taking their case to court in order to change their policies. So far as I know, there have been 3 state court rulings upholding HR 218, one in S. Dakota and two, oddly enough in New York State.

New York City and New Jersey are quite simply anti gun, and buy into everything put out by the Brady Bunch.
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:34 AM
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There is waaaaaaay too much erroneous information regarding LEOSA. I strongly suggest everyone who is affected READ the law!

That said, the great state of Maryland is wholly proactive and accomodating regarding qualification of state residents. Residents is important. If you are a resident of the state you can be qualified for LEOSA purposes even if your LE orgainization did not choose to qualify you pursuant to the provisions of LEOSA.

I am happy to be a resident of Maryland and affected by enlightened leadership as evidenced by the acceptance and recognition of LEOSA. FYI, I retired in 2005 and have qualified five (5) times.

Be safe.
Maryland has just made it more difficult to obtain a LEOSA!

We now have a NINE page app!

http://www.mdsp.org/downloads/LEOSA_APPLICATION.doc
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:11 PM
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I retired from a local agency in Louisiana and moved to Texas in 1998. Last year I researched concealed carry and found LEOSA, Public Law 108-277. It is codified as 18 U.S. Code 926B (qualified law enforcement officers) and 926C (qualified retired law enforcement officers).

Texas is very accommodating. They have a process with forms in place to show proper weapons qualification. If the retiree desires upon successful weapons qualification, he can complete an official Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and Education form and mail it in with a $25 fee. A qualification card with photo is issued and good for one year from date of qualification. Renewal is the same cost and process.

However, it is not necessary to get the card. A signed notarized affidavit that is part of the form mentioned above will suffice since 18 U.S. Code 926B and 18 U.S. Code 926C does not specify such a ID card as a necessity, just proof of weapons qualification.

This is for all retired local, state, and federal officers.

The Word docment form can be found under "Retired Federal Firearms Identification Card" in this URL, http://www.tcleose.state.tx.us/content/publications.cfm . Although it states Retired "Federal Firearms..." it is for "Retired Federal or Out-of-State Officer Firearms Certificate"
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Last edited by TXbug; 03-04-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:03 PM
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Maryland has just made it more difficult to obtain a LEOSA!

We now have a NINE page app!

http://www.mdsp.org/downloads/LEOSA_APPLICATION.doc

I just heard that from a fellow retiree. Cannot download the file you attached but will be checking as I will be requalifying soon. Thank you for the info.

Be safe.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:11 PM
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You're very welcome!
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:16 PM
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i am a separated leo from missouri i am trying to get my creds from my former dept. no luck. my former dept. does not have a written policy covering retired or separated officers. however an individual that does not meet leosa has his creds issued by the not current police chief does and requals every year but after 13 years of service i cant get mine. anybody with this problem or know of a solution. i should be covered under public law 111.272 dated oct 12,2010 signed by pres obaam. the state of missouri has adopted the law and hr-218. just my dept has not and the mo police chiefs have not either, the local f o p chapter pres is no help

Last edited by gladams; 08-18-2011 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:21 PM
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i am a separated leo from missouri i am trying to get my creds from my former dept. no luck. my former dept. does not have a written policy covering retired or separated officers. however an individual that does not meet leosa has his creds issued by the not current police chief does and requals every year but after 13 years of service i cant get mine. anybody with this problem or know of a solution
Do you have a retired ID card? Why not email or call your State Police to get info?
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:35 PM
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HR 218 needs to be clearer....it's federal so every state should abide by it...but some states seem to think they can get around it....NYC will not honor it for out of state officers...I have no idea why the NYPD commissioner would have a problem with retired cops carrying...let's see how he feels when he retires...

Here is NYPD/NY City putting its spin on things
July 1st, 2005
New York City Pistol Licensees
Commissioner Ray Kelly has screwed you again!
Letters are going out from NYPD Pistol License Section, to all individuals under their jurisdiction (civilian pistol license holders and retired MOS (retired NYPD Police Officers) who have been issued a NYC Pistol License.
If, when you acquired a semi-auto pistol, and indicated on your purchase document a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds, you will have to prove prior to your next renewal that you legally disposed of such. No Exceptions.
Proof of legal disposal shall be a receipt from a licensed Gun Dealer or active police officer. No other method will be accepted.
Criminal penalties for possession of high-capacity ammunition feeding devices, by pistol license holders and retired NYPD MOS have been put into place. Regardless of when manufactured, or how marked, or when imported into NYC or NYS, they are now contraband, and are not ?grandfathered?.
Retired NYPD MOS who hold NYC Pistol Licenses are no longer exempt. Your ?issued? mags are now contraband.
July 1st, 2005
Retired NYPD MOS who wish to take advantage of H.R. 218 and carry outside the state of New York; Commissioner Ray Kelly has screwed you too!
Regarding retired NYPD Members of service and the federal provisions granted under HR 218. As per Commissioner Ray Kelly, the NYPD shall be the only entity who will provide federally recognized firearms training and provide identification of such qualification. For NYPD retirees who wish to possess a firearm, that must be department approved while traveling outside the state, Commissioner Kelly has indicated that only the make, model and caliber that the officer carried while ?on-the-job? will be accepted. The department?s Division of Legal Matters shall be the sole arbiter as to whom and which retired MOS shall be able to qualify. It has been indicated that medical retirees will not be able to qualify to carry under H.R. 218, since their medical condition prevented them from serving as a police officer. It has also been indicated that any officer applying for status as ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree? will have their personnel file reviewed for any debilitating entries that can be utilized in the denial of such an application. The Commissioner has redefined what it means to be a ?retired? police officer. He has effectively divided the department in two; those who will be allowed to exercise their federal right and those who will not. The NYS Dept. of Criminal Justice Services is the sole arbiter regarding the method of instruction and the parameters of the identification card. Firearms Training Section will be the administrator of all such training and the department will be charging several fees for obtaining such a formal designation as a ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree?. The Commissioner has decided that by doing so, it will eliminate ?the corruption of the system?, by outside training entities. Retirees living outside the state will only be recognized as an ?HR 218 qualified NYPD MOS retiree? only when they return to Rodman?s Neck and re-qualify. No other state?s training system will be recognized by the NYPD as a valid certification of HR 218 compliance
LEOSA specifically says that any ammunition not Federally banned can be used. It does not say much about "high capacity." I qualify with a Sigma.. 16 rnd mag. I qualify at my Department in Florida and also under Texas TCLOSE. I use the Sigma. My Department card says semi auto. My FDLE papper work says Sigma 9VE SN xxxx... I carry that. I use it in Texas too. I do not want to be the first test case, but when I come to NYC, I am going to carry what I qualified with and that is the Sigma. This crazy local stuff needs to be challenged and I would suggest your police union file suit, sooner rather than later since it appears as if they are being denied due process and are being treat differently than other retired officers.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:40 PM
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Do you have a retired ID card? Why not email or call your State Police to get info?
the retired id is what i am trying to get under leosa of 2010.but no luck with city manager or city atty office, they are in agreement with current policy. but there is not a policy, and never has been.
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Concealed Carry & Self Defense Thread, ***UPDATE***June 2011***H.R 218 LEOSA... How's that working out for fellow retirees? in General Topics; H.R. 218 was enacted July 22, 2004, which gave all active duty and retired law enforcement officers the right to ...
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