I went today to get qualified for a CCW (class tomorrow). Nevada requires a test at 3 yards, 7 yards, and 15 yards. I did okay at 3 yards, not so great at 7, and much worse at 15 yards. I ended up having to rent a Ruger SP101 (I think that is it) to qualify. That won't be a problem for the permit since once you qualify with one revolver, you can carry any revolver (not the semi).

I know the 442 is not usually the first choice as primarily a range gun, but what is the realistic range of being able to hit the target with that gun. The sights aren't great, and I had a hard time seeing it. I had no problem qualifying with my semi (a 5-7) as the sights are bigger.

I don't know whether I am such a terrible shot with the revolver that I should not carry it or whether the gun really isn't designed for long range.

No, the mighty J frame was never meant to be a long range weapon. It does, however, do an excellent job at it's intended role, that of a "get off me" gun.

There's a thing in the CCW world known as the 21 foot rule. Meaning an assailant, armed with a knife can charge you and kill you before you can draw your weapon and engage him, within the 21 foot realm.

During several training sessions, I've tried this literally with a gun (unloaded) in my hand, being held at my side, pointing at the ground and a "bad guy" 21 feet away with a "knife" (rubber). Every time, the bad guy "wins."

Do the simple math and you will see that 21 feet is 7 yards. That tells me that if you can keep all of your shots in the "kill" zone in the 7-10 yard range, than you are A-OK.

Hi:
Consider painting the front sight of your Model 442. I use bright orange or white,

Don't worry, all you've gotta do is practice some especially if you are new to the J frame. Dry fire will help with the trigger pull. The J frame snubbie is mechanically accurate enough to shoot 3-4" groups at 75 feet with good ammo. Jerry Miculek hit a steel plate at 200 yards shooting the 642 (stainless version of your gun) UPSIDE DOWN pulling the trigger with his PINKY.
Like jimmyj said, paint the front sight. Use white first and then cover with bright orange paint. Crimson Trace Laser Grips are also easier to use that the sights on the gun and can help you learn to pull the trigger properly by watching how the dot moves as you pull the trigger.

I'll agree with the above. Mechanically, the J-snubs are capable of amazing accuracy.

In MOST hands, however, the real purpose is that of a belly gun ... up close and personal self-defense.

If you handload (or have a friend who does), work up some lighter target loads for practice, run mostly those when you're at the range, then a cylinder or two of full-house factory ammo.

I always shoot a couple cylinders of target loads from my 642 when I'm at the range, usually at 7-10 yards... I can keep all five center-mass firing as quick as I can get the sights back on target. It's not a pretty group but it'll work.

Might want to check your grip on the gun... What works for me is almost a "handshake" grip, with the web of my thumb sitting even with the knuckle of the backstrap... It bites my thumb pretty hard with recoil, but that's the price of an ultralight carry gun.

I can keep 'em in the zone on a silhouette at 25 yards with my EDC 642. The J frame can be shot with effect at longer ranges but, realistically, in the unlikely event you end up in a gunfight, it'll more than likely be three shots, three yards and three seconds.

__________________
Centennial Every Day

Practice as much as you can. And you will get better for sure.

5 yards. 15 feet. That is the distance at which I shoot the majority of my practice rounds.

IMHO that is the range I need to be able to shoot at most. I go to the range weekly and shoot 150 to 300 rounds a week, about half of it .22 which helps me keep my trigger control consistent.

The rest is 38 special and 9mm, out of my carry guns and some 45 colt out of my SAA clone just for the fun of it.

My shooting continues to improve.

Ken

p.s.: I am in Nevada also - the next time I go to qualify I will use my 686 with light 38 spcl loads for revolver even though I never carry it.

Using my 442 I can consistantly bust 4 out of 5 clay pigeons at 100 yards and generally flip the 5th one over if I do not bust it.

All it takes is practice and a steady hand.

Thank you. I feel a little better that I am not the worst shot in the world. I had no problem at 5 yards though I did have a harder time at 7 yards. I didn't get all my shots in the center of the target at 7 yards, but I was close so that will just take more practice.

Got about 4-5 months before CCW comes in so I have plenty of time to practice.

I thought about that, but decided against it since I am able to see the front sight without too much of a problem. I can see it, but that didn't seem to help at the longer ranges.

I dry fire the gun every once in a while. Over the past year, probably a few hundred times. I have put a few hundred +P rounds through the gun (not pleasant as it tore up my hand).

I was planning on carrying the gun in a pocket holster, would the Crimson Trace grips affect that plan at all?

I don't go to the range as much I as like or as much as I used to, but when I did, I usually shot at 5 and 7 yards. I didn't have a problem with my other gun, a FN 5-7, but I had a few issues with the 442 mainly because I have +P ammo. I was better yesterday as I had to use the range ammo which is non +P. When I run out of the +P ammo, the next batch I buy will be non +P.

I was thinking that when permit is up for renewal, I will either have another revolver to qualify or rent the Ruger again.

Do you use crimson trace to help you at long distances? I definitely can use practice, steady hand is a problem. My hand is very unsteady, and that just isn't with the 442. No matter how hard I try, my hand shakes a bit. My hand shakes even holding a pen, but nowhere near as bad as when holding a gun. The instructor yesterday at the range gave me a few pointers to try to steady my hand (different way of holding the gun) so maybe that will help a bit.

Dry firing to get a consistent trigger break where the front sight doesn't jump is the key to shooting the J frame accurately. You can try engaging the trigger with different parts of your trigger finger to find out what works best.
The crimson trace grips should work fine in any pocket holster you choose to get. I use the Kramer model when wearing loose fitting pants as the holster provides some amount of retention should keeping the gun in when I sit. In jeans I usually use my Robert Mika b/c of the way I have to draw from jeans. The LG-405 has a nice recoil pocket at the back and I can tell the difference in recoil for sure.
adam

I did find out yesterday from the instructor that I was using the wrong part of my finger on the trigger. When I fired, it would pull the gun a bit. I never noticed that at the closer distances, but once I changed which part of my finger I used, I got better.

I got mine in Clark County about two years ago. It took just over 30 days. I understand there is no backlog now so it should not take as long as you think it will.

Ken

You dry fire a few hundred times a year? I dry fire a few hundred times each session, which is about three times a week. And that's with each hand. I'm usually the only guy at the matches that uses a revolver sprung heavily enough to fire all commercial primers. You need to dry fire more. It's not easy, but you can do it.

Dave Sinko

That would be great. I was told there is a backlog due to the many increased applications they received. CCW instructor did say the more unique the name, the quicker the permit will be issued. I have a semi-unique name, but there are enough people out there with it where I suspect it can take some time do the full background on me.

I really do hope it is 30 days, but if I waited a year, hopefully a few more months won't kill me.

I usually dry fire the gun while sitting at the computer every once in a while. I do the same thing you do with each hand. I dry fire fifty time with the right hand, then I switch to the left hand, and then back. I probably dry fired more than I think doing that, but I know I don't do it anywhere near the amount you do.

I do need to work in that trigger since when I fire, I pull a little put because of the position of my finger on the trigger. Hopefully with more dry firing, that problem will go away. I just have to go force myself every night to fire fifty in one hand, and fifty in the other.

+1

I too shoot a lot of .22 , good practice and it's cheap. In addition, I shoot a lot of soft .38 wadcutter target ammo. I always finish up with 1 or 2 cylinders of carry ammo, either +p 158gr LSWCHP or the Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel.

The important thing is to practice. A 2" J frame is not an easy handgun to be accurate with and can be really frustrating. Practice, practice, practice.

Like others have said, 21-25 feet is what you're looking at. Longer shots can be done, but the J snub is truly a "belly" or "get outa my face" gun. Inside 30 feet it really shines.

I won't leave home without one! ;-)

Iron sights all the way. I also prastice dry firing. I have found that using the A style hand squeeze grip exerisers help a lot. I will take turns squeezing them and holding them out at arms length (like I am sighting a pistol) and holding them shut for a minute at a time.

I agree with practicing. I used wadcutters at the range, and 158gr +P Federal semi-wadcutter hollow points is what I plan to carry and shoot with. Once the +P is gone, I plan on getting non +P ammo.

I don't have much of a problem short range, it is the long range I have an issue with.

I have found that learning to shoot at long range you need to know where you are hitting every shot. In KY and here in TN I have the advantage of being able to shoot into hill sides.

I will place me targets, (coffee can, pop can clay pigeon ect) on the hill side, I can then see each bullet impact and know where my shots are going.

This is very important for fixed sight guns as you have vety limited adjustment for bullet impact. At 100+ yards I find that with a 38 snub I need to hold a little off to the side at about 3 or 4 oclock.

Seeing those bullet strikes from shot to shot are a great aid to learning to shoot at any distance. Even if you have to shoot a paper target and then go and check every shot it is worth the effort.

Slow down. Take time between the shots, think about each and every one and where you want that bullet to go. There is practice and there is good practice. Review every shot and think about what you did wrong or right. Better to go the the range and shoot 25 quality shots than 100 average ot below adverage shots.

Slow and smooth will build speed and accuracy.

I AGREE!!

The Proffesor

__________________
RSO- Instr.

442js;
You will find that the 442 will do just fine, after you put some more rounds downrange. Get yourself some snap-caps, and work the trigger so it's second nature. I don't know what your marital status/livung arrangements are, but you might practice some discretion while dry-firing around the house.
When you go to the range, see if you can get some light loads, like wadcutters. I know that when I'm hunting, I notice neither recoil or sound. As soon as you can get a
smooth trigger pull, you'll find that getting on-target will be a LOT easier. Just my opinion, and I'd really like to know how you get things figured out. It didn't take me
more than a few range-trips to where I could hit well.
Maintaining proficiency just gets to be more fun when
you can trust your fiearm. TACC`

I dry fire the gun in one room in my house when no one is around so that shouldn't be a problem. Guess it would look strange walking around the house dry firing the gun with someone wondering what I am doing.

Would snap-caps be better than just dry firing the gun?

I have to work on keeping my hand steady, and that trigger pull. I think I may have the keeping the hand steady problem under control, but the trigger pull won't be fixed without some more dry-firing/snap-caps. I have been practicing dry firing with the method the range safety office at the range showed me, and I have been able to keep the gun relatively steady. Not the same without live ammo, but will try that at the next time at the range.

Thanks for the advice.

What size is the target used for the Nevada CCW?

A full size B-27 target. I guess it is a standard target with an X in the middle and then different areas marked with 8,7,6, etc.

I didn't know anybody used the old B-27s anymore. I thought they were ruled offensive by the ACLU and other ethnic groups or something.

Maybe it's just CLEET that stopped using them for such reasons.

To my vast surprise, the latest SDA instructor lesson plan from CLEET still lists the B-27 as the preferred target.

"Style of target: B-27, B-27M, B-27GM, E-Type, TQ-15 or TQ19."

The last few times we've qualed, we've used the B27GM...



We've recently started using these as well...



I haven't shot on a B-27 in years!