Now that I applied for my CCW (and was told by one member of the police unit handling the application it will take 90-120 days while another member said they can get them out in 25-30 days), I have to start thinking about a holster for my 442.

I was thinking of a pocket holster, but since my front pockets can get full, I don't think that is a good idea. Does someone make a good holster (OWB is my preferred choice) that handles both a 442, and a speed loader (a Safariland Speedloader)?

Thank you.

Check out Galco. I like their new speedloader holder. I also like the leather blackhawk detachable slide holster. I like to be able to take off my gear without taking off my belt.

A holster that also contains a speedloader is going to put either the gun or the reload in a less than optimal position. When I carry OWB, I position the gun just behind my right hip (I'm right handed). That's a less than ideal position for the speedloader.

The easiest solution is to clear all the junk out of the pocket that you want to keep the gun in. Keep only the gun and holster in that pocket. Never, ever, put anything else in it, not coins, not a receipt, nada...

Going that route just over a tenner gets you an Uncle Mike's pocket holster, 20 some a Desantis, or some rubber bands, gorilla tape and some cardboard and one is essentially free for the making.

OWB is sort of over kill for J frames. If one is going to wear a proper gunbelt, holster, and cover garment, they might as well carry a medium or full size auto.

I was thinking of a pocket holster, but one pocket as a wallet, and the other pocket has my keys which takes up some room. The keys can't go in the same pocket as the wallet as there will be a huge bulge so that is why I am thinking of a OWB. I have a full size auto which I plan to carry when I wear jackets, and warmer clothing, but when it is 110 outside, I won't be able to conceal it. Hence the reason for the 442.

Whether I get a pocket holster or OWB for the 442, is a better location for the speed loader on the left side? Right hip is the gun (I am also right handed), left hip speed loader?

For a right-handed shooter reloading the revolver involves: 1. push cylinder release with right thumb, 2. open cylinder with fingers of left hand, 3. hold weapon in left hand, fingers through frame on cyliner, 4. reload with right hand, 5. close cylinder with left hand, 6. return right hand to revolver grip.

With a speedloader this process can be completed more quickly than you can read this.

Since the speedloader is used with the right hand it should be carried where it is easily accessible with the right hand. A pouch on the belt just forward of the right hip is ideal. A pocket on the right side works well. Anything on the left side creates a handicap for a right-handed shooter.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

Carabiners work well for keys unless you're in a very strict dress code. Lots of guys have them. You just clip your keys to a belt loop. If you only have a few keys, no one really notices. If you have a lot, then it just makes sense.

I'd keep my money (I never carry wallets these days) and cards in my left front pocket. I didn't use back pockets since pick pockets existed where I used to roam. My keys I'd put in my back pocket, but with bulky and sharp keys, I soon moved to clipping them on.

I tend to keep spare ammunition on my left side. It's doable to have revolver ammo on the right side, since you're going to have the gun in your left hand and be manipulating the ammo right handed with standard drills. But, with an auto you load with the left hand (assuming again right handedness). It helps to always have a reload in the same place.

I haven't carried speedloaders for a J frame in some years (I use them as BUGs or deep cover mostly). I'd personally balance the extra ammo against discrete carry and most often opt for a speed strip or two. (Watch pockets work well for these). Less than ideal obviously.

Since men now carry all manner of personal electronics and gadgets on their belt, I'd look for a speedloader pouch that looked like it contained something else (or a something else pouch that fit a speedloader well) and carry it left side between the gig line and the hip. Worst case scenario, either hand can get to the ammo there. Plus when you carry your auto, your mind will still be programmed that this is where the ammo is.

As always, everyone is different and what worked for me won't necessarily work for you.

As an aside, I've carried medium and full size autos - and even N frame revolvers - with just an untucked shirt as a cover garment in hot climates. I carried a Model 58 IWB during a VA summer. Not as hot as Nevada of course. The trick is getting pants and shirt to fit right.

The Galco Concealable is a great belt holster.

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Centennial Every Day

I bought a Galco Stinger last year...it has become my everyday carry holster.
Galco holsters; Holsters; Gun holster, pistol holsters, western holsters, shoulder holsters, leather holster and Glock holsters

I carry two QuickStrips in a pouch on my belt. Check out their web site, they have some pocket holsters also.

Pocket Holsters :: Tuff Products

Hot Weather= Ankle Holster w/ M442
Jacket Weather= Full size auto on belt and M442 in Ankle Holster as BUG.

Most speed loaders do not work well with J frames. The cylinder does not swing out far enough for the speed loader to clear the grip. Trim the grip, or use speed strips, or carry a "New York" reload. (another j frame, ie: 2 of them. Takes to long to reload small frame revolvers. I can get a second gun out and into action much faster. One IWB and the other in weak side front pocket.

Good thing I asked because I would think that being on the left side might be faster for a right handed person. I was thinking of releasing cylinder with left hand, point gun up to empty the shells, and then with left hand use the speedloader to put more rounds in the gun.

I usually keep wallet in one front pocket (which fills it up), and keys, comb, and a pen in the other front pocket. Nothing in the back pocket because as you said, easy to pick pocket.

I usually wear untucked shirts, and most of the ones I have will cover the full size auto, but will print. I need to buy shirts a size or two bigger so I can carry it. I would think that carrying a full size auto in an IWB would be uncomfortable in some cases.

Normally, I don’t butt into such conversations but just having been involved in a Pocket Holster matter, I figured that I’d offer up my opinions and experience here.

First, you have to consider your activities and your clothing.

1) If you are going to be sitting a good deal of the time (drive times are included here), a Pocket Holster could be the wrong the choice for you.
a. If you are going to be seated and either lack the room or the physical ability to stand and draw, this is the wrong choice.
i. And even if you have the room and are skilled enough to stand, draw and engage the deadly force threat that legally enables you to employ the handgun in defense of your life, you must realize that the need to stand and the time it takes to do so will put you even further behind the curve (as a responder and not an initiator) than you would be otherwise.

2) For a variety of reasons I will not bore you with, I recommend strong side (dominant or master side), front pocket carry.
a. As such, your pants have to have pockets that are not only large enough to contain the gun and holster but they have to have entries large enough to allow you easily access and draw the gun through them.
b. If they don’t, you either have to change your wardrobe or give up on the idea of pocket carry.

3) That said, I should tell you that I am a big proponent of Pocket Holsters (for guns like your 442) as they can be worn without concern over a “proper” covering garment as required with any kind of inside or outside the beltline holster.
a. In the warmer months, a tucked-in shirt of any kind can be worn.
i. You don’t need to resort to a shirt outside the pants or a jacket that might be “seen” as out of place.
b. And in the cooler times of the year, most external garments can be moved out of the way as part of the drawstroke.
c. So this is a holster that can be used year round as long as your activities also permit its use.

i. As a sidenote and not something I have the time to get into here, I would really rethink your carrying a “full size auto” some of the time with one kind of holster and your “442” the rest of the time; possibly with another kind of holster.
1. I would seriously recommend picking one gun and one holster and getting very good with it and very used to it.
2. Also, if you haven’t carried a gun before (and it sounds like perhaps you haven’t), you may find that the novelty of the big bore gun might wear off when its weight and inconvenience becomes more and more apparent.
3. That said, I am a big fan of the 1911 but for most people, the lightest, least intrusive, simplest gun to tote around the same way every day regardless of wardrobe or time of the year, generally makes the most amount of sense; at least as a starting point.

If you keep your wallet in your front pocket (you say that you do), put it on the opposite (weak or non-dominant) side as equal bulges on both sides of the body will help mislead the few people who actually look for such things.
Put the comb, pen and keys you mention in your back pocket or clip the keys to your belt if you have a bunch of them and sitting on them is a problem.
Do not put anything in the pocket with the holstered gun!

As to extra ammo, there are several things to consider here too.
1) Not that anything can’t happen (it can) BUT THIS IS NOT TELEVISION OR THE MOVIES AND YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE.
a. Again, be objective regarding the extremely limited situations in which you have the legal right to use the firearm.
i. And while I always recommend carrying spare ammo, you have to be realistic about the kind of engagements those situations are.
ii. And if you are realistic, then you have to see that reloading the gun takes on much different perspectives than it does on the range or in a match.
iii. As such, the benefits normally associated with speedloaders (obviously the most efficient way to reload a revolver) are somewhat diminished.
iv. That and no matter how you try to carry them concealed, these bulky, round speedloading devices will get to be a drag after a while and, after a while, you might even find yourself not wanting to carry them. And that makes no sense at all.

2) So take a serious look at the speed strips offered by people like Tuff Products (they call them Quick Strips).
a. They’re not as fast but they are a LOT easier to carry and with practice they’re fine for this application, which regardless of how romanticized some people make this stuff, is more than likely something to be done after a civilian concealed carry engagement and not during one.
b. Wear you carry them is dependent on whether you employ a traditional handswitching reload of the revolver or if you keep the gun in the dominant (or master) hand and load it with the non-dominant one.

As to holster manufacturers, that is up to you to but if you pick a synthetic model make sure it is moisture resistant and if you pick one made from natural materials consider a denser fiber like horsehide (if you can afford it, they are pricey) so that body heat and perspiration doesn’t break it down as quickly as they will cowhide. Also give a great deal of attention as to how any design that interests you is supposed to stay in pocket upon the draw; that is extremely important.

And try it out (safely with a verified unloaded firearm or, better yet a “Blue Gun” type replica from a reputable manufacturer – there are several these days) to make sure that the holstered weapon fits in your pocket, the gun can be drawn from it, and the holster remains in place when the gun is drawn. And not just “removed” but “drawn”; there is a difference. I would also make sure, as best you can in a gun store environment, that it is comfortable while sitting, standing, walking and bending over or crouching down.

Finally, in bringing this back full circle to the idea that your clothing can be a limiting factor here, in addition to your making sure that the holstered gun “fits” in the pocket and that the gun can be accessed and drawn from it, you also need to make sure that when combined, your pants and your holstered firearm don’t allow things to “print”; transmitting to the world that you have a gun with you.

Hope this helps.

You make some very good points. I will be seated a lot. Driving as well at my desk is where I am a lot. If pocket carry isn't recommended, what do you recommend?

I haven't carried before, and I might get annoyed carrying the full size auto after a while. On the other hand, you wrote I should pick one gun, and get very good with it. Right now, I am pretty good with the full size auto. Much better than I am with my revolver. That is likely due to using that gun a lot more than the 442.

When I bought the 442, a few people suggested that I should have bought a 1911 instead. Some were shaking their heads when I mentioned I bought a 5 shot .38 special.

I am hoping that the gun is only used at the range. That I will only need the speed loader to practice, and use it in five years to re-qualify.

I doubt that if I do pocket carry on my dominant side, it will print due to the type of pants I normally wear.

Thanks for your advice. It was very helpful.

The people who criticized your choice of a 442 are ignorant. I'm all about big, powerful, full sized guns, but more often than not, new carriers run out and buy a cannon, discover that it can't always be concealed and only carry part time. Oftentimes they stop carrying altogether. J frames can always be concealed by most folks.

I practice what I preach, so my advice is to carry a second gun available to the other hand if your state law allows doing so. Pocket carry your 442 and if it is workable, consider a second J frame in an ankle holster. I've never ankle carried, but my understanding is that it can work well for those who are seated a lot.

As far as speedloaders go, I use them very little and am not particularly fond of the things. You may find that speed strips are easier to carry and conceal.

I knew I wouldn't be able to conceal the full size auto all the time which was why I went looking for a smaller gun. I think the 442 will be a great gun to carry with the right ammo (which for me is standard .38). Whether I pocket carry it or carry it some other way, I will be able to conceal it in almost all situation. I think in the long run I made the right choice in getting the 442 over the 1911.

I wasn't planning on getting an ankle holster. I heard some mixed things about them, and I would be concerned forgetting to take it off when I go into a building I can't carry in.

Hi:
Consider wearing your speedloader on your off side (left).
After dumping empty brass, draw speedloader with left hand and loading with left hand.
This works best with keeping revolver at chest level. you can keep your target in view and not have to change your grip.
When ejecting empties, muzzle turned straight up.
When reloading, muzzle down.
Also when reloading and the BG charges you, you have a ready club in your hand.
Nothing beats a second gun.
Jimmy

I run the mobile range for our dept. and I rarely see a smooth reload on the 2" course with a speedloader...and this is under no stress...when I give them my speedstrip after showing them how to use it, they tend to like it...maybe a tad slower (in some cases faster) but much more positive...and more importantly, easier to carry in a pocket...and if it ain't easy, they ain't gonna carry it.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Only you can decide that if “in the long run” you “made the right choice” but for all the reasons I gave earlier, I can’t say enough about the sense and practicality about such a little gun for concealed carry purposes. And your choice of conventional ammo too (“standard .38”) is something else that is often overlooked these days by those who often don’t carry themselves but are often wed to things that sound good but many times are not practical. Although here, I might recommend that you also take a look at the some of the various 125-130gr +P hollow points out there today or the once very popular (and usually still very accurate and generally quite controllable) 158gr +P lead SWCHP.

The former often represent the cutting edge of technology and bullet design and the latter gained famed decades ago as the “duty” round for several federal agencies and places like the Chicago Police Department. The current Smith 442’s are rated for +P ammo but only you can decide if the blast, flash and recoil of any of the 125-130gr loads (they vary) are things you can live with. Generally, I think that you’ll find that the 158gr lead +P SWCHP is pretty manageable in all of those accounts and while some folks think that it is lacking in today’s world of hi-technology ammo, it is still a cut above most non +P loads and it has done its job rather well over the years.

In any case, I would again suggest sticking with one gun and one carry method. I would also tell you that if you are better with the full size auto than you are with the revolver (a common situation to find oneself in when considering the size, sights and grip frames of the two weapons), if you are going to carry the smaller gun, that you practice more with it and practice as often as you can (and as expensive as it might be) with the ammo you will be carrying in it.

I won’t rehash the benefits of the Pocket Holster but if you think that you are seated too much to employ one (and can’t find ways around that problem), then you are back to looking at your activities and modes of dress to decide what other holster might work for you. In some ways, a well-designed Ankle Holster can (like a Pocket Holster) make you less of a prisoner to a covering garment (something that can be merely problematic or completely out of place) but what you do and what you wear while doing it become very important, as do the surrounding environment and climate, when employing such a design. Additionally, your body type and physical abilities become big factors too.

With the right drawing techniques, a well-designed Ankle Holster will work in a vehicle as well as when seated in general. It is not something easily spotted and will allow for a wide range of clothing to be worn with it; as long as your pant legs are not only large enough to accommodate the holstered firearm but are also capable of being readily lifted out of the way to allow access to it. That said, your activities and overall location(s) will be huge issues to consider.

In regard to “forgetting to take it off”, I hate to say it but as you grow accustomed to carrying a gun in any position, that possibility always exists. A comfortable holster worn on a part of the body where you are not being reminded or inconvenienced by it, can make almost anyone “forget” it is there. And that makes for quite the dichotomy for while such comfort (and relaxed movement) is what one strives for when carrying a firearm, the responsibility of carrying a gun should always be foremost in our minds when we do.

Again, I hope this helps.

When I first started CC, it was a 5" 1911 at 4 o'clock because I read Cooper. Well...that didn't last long. LOL

It can be done, but in hot climates, and if you have any physical disabilities or limitations, carrying a full size gun that weighs pounds instead of ounces will not last long.

I would rather go undergunned than not gunned, so most often I'm carrying an Airweight or two.

For sitting or driving, the practical choice is a shoulder rig or crossdraw but neither of those conceal well. I've had good luck with appendix IWB with the right holster, pants and Airweight. AIWB doesn't seem to work well with full size or medium size guns.

If you really want to carry a full size gun and find yourself sitting or driving a lot, my guess is a shoulder rig is going to be your best bet.

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Centennial Every Day

When I carry a J frame on the waistline it's carried AIWB, this is VERY fast to present, easy to get at both strong and weak hand, easy to get to while sitting or supine as well, and it's not prone to being bumped by people so that you don't get "made" as carrying.

Normally my Js are a BUG, and then they are carried ankle or pocket.

Depending on dress code is what will dictate your mode of carry; "the mission drives the gear train".


I've never had a problem with speedloaders and J frames, but then I make sure my grips are cut to allow the speedloader to clear. I've used the HKS, Safariland and XL Variant in the past, and still own them, but when I use a speedloader lately it's Jetloader.

Normally I pocket carry the Tuff Strips or Bianchi Speed Strips for my reload though.



ETA; Shoulder rigs suck, this is the collective experience of every serious gun carrier I know.