Does anybody out there carry a backup gun in a front pants pocket while in uniform? As far as I know, none of my coworkers does this. Before I had a pocket holster for any of my small frame revolvers (which was many years, I'm sorry to say) I had never considered pocket carry while on duty. I even go so far as to sew pockets on the front of my vest carriers but this probably isn't necessary for a J Frame and is way too slow. Can anybody think of any disadvantages to pocket carry? If I did this, it would be a J Frame in the weak side pants pocket. My weak hand isn't all that weak and sees lots of practice. I'm pretty sure my hand would constantly end up in the pocket and some would claim it looks unprofessional. I have never much cared about perception, so I'm wondering if there are any other potential negatives.

Dave Sinko

I'm not a cop, but that is where I carry my BUG when I'm not at work. I actually shoot a couple of my guns as well, and actually better sometimes, with my weak hand. I'd think the front pocket would be easier to protect from a snatch attempt than a rear pocket.

Nonchalantly putting one's hand there during a traffic stop, or when something makes you think things are about to go down will have you drawing faster than going for your belt gun and no one will be the wiser as to what you're doing. Of course, another cop/partner may see what you're doing and it may tip them off that all is not well and you won't have to use any other verbal or physical cue. I'd think that could be an advantage.

I have carried my backup strong side front pocket now for ......15-17 years at least.....
If I have pants on, that's where my M49 is.....
my young coppers don't pocket carry either....preferring ankle carry in most cases, which will disappoint them if they ever have to get to it in a hurry, as I have had to do, which is why all my ankle holsters are sitting in boxes now

Actually, I did get the idea for weak hand pocket carry from you. I have found that smaller and lighter guns are not that difficult to shoot well using the "off" hand, provided one practices a bit. Last time I qualified with my 940 I demanded to shoot the full 25 yard course that we use for the duty gun instead of the watered down "backup gun qual" that everybody else uses. It's amazing how many people who really should know better believe that a 2" J Frame is useless at 25 yards.

Dave Sinko

I don't carry in my front pockets in uniform, the stuff on my belt gets in the way of accessing them. I wear 5.11 TDU pants and the cargo pockets have a pair of inner pockets that are sewn to the pant leg. My 360 fits perfect in the forward inner pocket of my weak side cargo pocket. It sits deep enough to be secure and the flap velcros in place so it's not coming out unless I take it out, which is fast and easy with practice. Also, the two layers of cloth covering it break up the outline so no one can tell it's there.

I've qualified on our duty gun course (25yds, like yours) with three different BUGs over the years - my 9mm 360J, a 642, and a Kel-tec P3AT - never had any trouble getting it done.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

"which is why all my ankle holsters are sitting in boxes now "

Unused ankle holsters can be wrapped around a bed headboard leg, nightstand leg, end table leg, cot leg, steering column of a vehicle or the roll bar in a Jeep to secure a handgun that needs to be in easy reach.

I carry a model 60 bobed hammer in my weak hand pocket, we were taught if your strong hand gets diabled you can access it with your weak hand.

Pete

The last several years that I worked uniform, I carried my 342Ti in an Alessi pocket holster, weak side front. For exactly the same reason as Pete^^^
Now that I'm in plainclothes, usually a shirt and tie , the pants are not cut for such carry. That's why I now carry the Ti on my strong side ankle so I can get to it weak handed while I use my strong hand for other tasks at hand.

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Stay Safe...
jd SWCA #3276

now that's clever, you must be highly educated....

I carry both in my weak side front pocket and on my ankle, 642s in both places.

I used to carry a Glock 26 on my ankle but the weight has been aggravating the arthritis in that knee lately.

I had to adjust by belt gear, and modify the pocket a bit, to make the draw smoother, but a 642 in a Nemesis holster works very well now.

As a right-handed I carried upper right side on my vest with butt facing forward. Thought if right hand un-usable I could draw weak handed. BUG in a front pants pocket difficult to reach seated. Ankle carry was out as the only time I had my weapon taken was fighting with a suspect on the ground.
Jimmy

Never carried a second gun; agency rules forbade it, in fact. That said, never saw/see the need for one. To each, his/her own, of course.

Be safe.

As WC145 said, I tried both front pockets, but couldn't adjust my duty belt to allow even semi-reasonably quick access. So I made an ankle holster, use it conventionally on the inside of my weak-side ankle. I know it's not ideal, but am out of ideas, at least until it's cold enough to use the inside pocket on a vest or jacket again. BTW, I carry a Mod. 60. The officer I traded the little 60 from carried it as a BUG for quite a few years, in the small of his back, no holster, but even though he was a righty, he placed it like a lefty would have it. If you can visualize what I mean, he reached back with his right hand, but with his palm facing his back to grip the weapon. He said he had done that and practiced it so long, it was second nature with just the tensiion of his belt holding it there. Claimed to have never had it come loose on him. The grip that was against his back certainly shows the sweat contact. I'm just not tough enough I guess.

I was a Police Officer for over 30 years. I always carried a second gun.

Early on before ballistic vests were common I carried a S&W Bodyguard in an upside down shoulder holster under my Uniform shirt.

When I started wearing a vest I moved the bodyguard to my left front pocket. I am right handed...

Later, due to primary gun changes, I carried a LW Colt Commander in 45 ACP in my left front pocket...

Again, later due to regulation changes I carried a Glock 17 as a primary and as a second gun in my left front pocket.

I NEVER worked a single shift with out at least 2 handguns... Never.

The advantage to a gun in your left front pocket is that you could have your left hand in your pocket, on your gun and nobody would know...

Also you had access to a gun with either hand if one of them got injured or was otherwise occupied.

I am retired now, but I NEVER leave my place, that I do not have, at least, that same Bodyguard in my left front pocket, as a backup, I always have something that starts with 4 for the bore, as a primary...

Any agency that bans you from carrying a BUG hates you and cares not whether you live or die.

Would they ban you from wearing a vest??, using a seat belt??, a BUG is job related safety equipment with a very well documented history of use and need in law enforcement.


Respectfully sir, if you haven't seen the need for a BUG it's because you haven't looked hard enough.

Wow, apparently they don't make front pockets like they used to! There's no way I could fit a Commander or a G17 in the front pockets of any pants I've ever owned. How the hell did you sit and drive with those things in your pants AND all of your other gear? My duty rig is spartan (mag pouch, cuffs, gun/holster, Leatherman) and like I said, the gun and mag pouch still keep me from accessing the pockets quickly or comfortably.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I've been retired now almost 20 years. When I was in uniform I had the Uniform shop seamstress line the left rear pocket of all my pants with a heavy canvas material that was sewed into the shape of my BUG which was a Colt Gov't 380 carried in condition one. The pants were of heavy weight wool so the 380 did not print and the bottom of the pocket was sewed to the pants leg so it didn't flop around as you walked. It was easy to access and didn't come out unless I pulled it out. If I was going into rough terrain I simply buttoned the pocket closed to prevent any chance of losing it. When I left I gave my uniforms to a new hire and he used a Walther PPK in the same pocket.

Gun Belt with holster, extra ammo pouch, handcuff case, asp carrier, taser holster, PR-24 ring, flashlight holder, and portable radio.
All this plus vest, boots, and normal pocket items. Any idea where back problems in later years come from?
I had a new female officer with a 20" waist assigned to my shift!! Some of her issued equipment had to be left in the patrol vehicle.

I cannot imagine trying to sit down with any gun in a front pocket. I tried hip pocket carry and found sitting on it to be impossible, even with a soft leather holster sewn into the pocket. Ankle carry was better than nothing but not much. In cold weather I carried in an inside shoulder holster pocket in a jacket. In warm weather I carried the bug inside the waistband in a cross draw, with the stocks partially visible above the duty belt, if one was looking and the lighting was adequate.

Yes.
Everyday. On or Off Duty & plain clothes.
Even right now.

If'n I got my pants on I've got a BUG in my pocket, just like my pocket knife and all the everday stuff.

BTW, palm knife tucked in behind mag pouch...But don't tell nobody!

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

There are lots of good ideas here. I will go with the weak hand front pants pocket. The bulge will be clearly identifiable as a small revolver to anybody who knows what he's looking for, but as long as it's not easily snatched that shouldn't be a problem. The radio might impede access but that problem can be solved easily enough. Sitting down is not a problem and I don't think the gun will fall out if I have to fight with somebody. As far as weight distribution and back problems, I don't know what's worse, carrying the gun on the vest or in a pants pocket. I'm sure that will be a factor too. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Dave Sinko

Are you using a pocket holster?

Just wondering. I use a Nemesis holster for my 642 and it doesn't look like a gun, looks like I have a wallet or something else un-gun-like in my pocket.

As long as I am wearing BDU pants (which is most of the time) I carry a j-frame in the weak side pocket. Pocket holsters seem to add too much bulk. I just sew a seam in the pocket that holds the gun tightly. I have been doing this for over ten years without any problems. I also keep the first chamber empty just in case the trigger gets pressed accidently.

I don't use a pocket holster either but I cannot imagine a situation where the trigger could be pulled accidently in my pocket, even with the relatively light 8lb DA pull my gun has. IMO, whatever infinitesimal chance there is of that happening is not enough to make me carry only 4rds in a 5rd gun. I figure if I ever need my BUG I probably need every round it'll hold and I sure as hell don't want to have to pull the trigger twice to get the first round off!!

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I am using a pocket holster and it is also a Nemesis.

I have never carried one less round in a revolver in anticipation of an accidental discharge. That said, I hope your empty chamber is the next one in line and not the one under the hammer. One of the reasons I carry a small frame revolver is for the heavier trigger pull which should prevent just such a problem.

Dave Sinko

Dave and I agree, I would fully load your cylinder. The hammer block will keep it from accidently discharging if you fall on it, for instance, and the trigger pull eliminates the likelyhood of discharge by touching the trigger...carry it fully loaded with confidence

Add one more to the list. I'd recommend fully loading the gun. If you really are concerned about the trigger getting pulled, then use a pocket holster. I do all the time, and no one notices. My Mika PH prints the least. One can further camoflage the gun by wadding a hanky in the bottom of the pocket in front of the holster.

I may be worrying to much about an accidental discharge while pocket carrying. When I started carrying that way I carried the gun fully loaded with five rounds. However, I have a job that requires me to foot patrol rugged terrain. Occasionally I have fallen and landed right on the gun and wondered what would have happened if a rock or sharp stick would have been sticking up and the only thing covering the trigger was a thin piece of cloth. I have also occasionally ended up on the ground trying to handcuff suspects and later wondered about the trigger accidentally being pulled or the gun coming out.

I also remember an article in a gun magazine (possibly American Handgunner) that had a picture of a pair of pants with a hole in them. The article went on to explain how the person had a small semi-auto pistol in his pocket and something(I think keys) got caught in the trigger guard and fired the pistol. I know an LEO who always carried a North American Arms .22 in his pocket. He did not carry it in a holster. One day when he went to remove it it was cocked. I know two people personally who have had weapons discharge while in their wastebands. The weapons were not in a holster. I am not sure exactly what happened because I was not there. One was an LEO and the other was an LEO's son who was a life long hunter and IDPA shooter. All of this has made me very nervous about carrying a gun that is not in a holster. However, I have a lean frame and carrying the j-frame seems obvious enough. Carrying it in a holster would even make it worse. All of this is why I decided to carry it with the first chamber empty. I can actually draw and fire it pretty quickly.

If I'm wearing a leather jacket, I carry a mod. 49 or 649 in the left pocket. If I'm not wearing a leather jacket, I carry it in my weak front pocket, both in a Mica pocket holster just to keep the front sight from poking holes in the pockets.

If I were you I strongly think about one of the thin kydex pocket holsters, would protect both you and the gun in a fall, and break up the outline of the gun.

WC145

The only problems I had was sometimes the pocket would get worn and need to be sewed up or the pants replaced. The City furnished our uniforms so it was not a big issue. Later when pocket holsters became available I use one designed for a S&W 38, as it kept the end of the slide on the semiautos from wearing a hole in the pocket.

Actually the LW Commander and the Glock rode better in the pocket as they were flatter. Also because they were "taller" than smaller guns, they did not get turned "cattywompas", or "crosswise" in the pocket making them hard to pull out.

At first I worried about carrying the Glock 17 in a pocket, but I never had it "go off" when I did not want it to...

At times it was mildly uncomfortable physically.... But VERY comfortable Mentally.

In my 30+ years on the Job I never worked even a part of a single shift without at least 2 handguns.

My wife, an LAPD officer, in her patrol days in Southwest and Rampart Divisions, carried a S&W 3913 in a Mika pocket holster in her weak side front uniform trouser pocket.

She liked the 3913 due to commonality of caliber/operation with her Beretta 92 and she shot well with it. However, she had some reliability problems which discouraged her from carrying it, so she switched to a S&W 642 in a Galco pocket holster, in the same location.

Many LAPD patrol officers utilize pocket carry for their back up gun...it is one of the most popular methods. Some use the front pocket, others the rear pocket. Mika holsters were popular--they used to be sold in the gun shop at the Academy. Mika, of course, was an LAPD officer, and a very highly regarded one at that.

The J frame is still very poplular--particularly after the Airweight versions were approved a few years ago. Many choose the Baby Glocks. However, the weight saved by carrying an Airweight (or lighter) J frame is a strong selling point for many patrol officers, given all the other equipment they carry every day, 10-12 hours a day.

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Trust, but verify - R. Reagan

Never carried a backup in 25 years of Law enforcement and will not carry Backup now that I'm retired. There are so many reasons that I don't. But the main reason I guess is that I never knew of any officer that I ever worked with that ever had a need for one. Now that I'm retired I even have less of a reason to think I will ever need one. To tell you the truth I always had doubt as to the reasons that some officers carried a second gun especially those guns that were not authorized for the officers to carry. Carrying one gun can be uncomfortable but comforting. Carrying 2 guns or more would be uncomfortable and no more comforting than one when I think of worrying about loosing an extra, having it stolen, or attempting to find a safe place for it to be stored when I go into a place that I can't carry it. did I say it's not for me?

Hell, this mummified thread is old enough that I'm retired from LE now as well! I seldom carried a BUG off duty, almost never do now, but I never worked without two handguns on me and my long guns in the vehicle.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

*
I've seen this position asserted by command personnel from one or more Maryland agencies in some article. I was appalled. Dereliction per se. It should be a violation of your state workplace safety agency's rules and union contract, and any command officer who asserts such a position should be fired RIGHT NOW. The liability for prohibiting such a common place piece of safety gear is staggering. I can't imagine ever working without at least two pistols, plus at least one long gun.

I started with an ankle holster, set up for the off hand. It allowed me to draw discretely if someone walked up on me. (The better answer is of course to get out of the car really fast, or drive away if you have to.) As I got older and less able to get to it, I played with different options, finally settling on a chest area holster attached to my vest straps. I could reach it easily with the off hand, ok with the primary, and it worked well with a zippered jumpsuit. I worked like hell to make sure I never had to wear that silly two piece uniform, of course - a solution in search of a problem if there ever was. At least all of ours had zippers and fake buttons. If you have to wear a coat for any reason, there is a good argument for having a pocket pistol in the coat pocket, probably at the off hand side. That would be about the only time I can see pocket carry without a holster.

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NHI, 10-8.

I have always carried at least 2 guns.Most of the time a jframe In left,offhand pocket this summer I switched to glock 42 because I shot it better weak handed.I do have to work at arranging my duty belt to leave pocket clear.

When I worked the road I carried a detective special in my left pocket. When prices climbed I swapped it for a shield. Works well in my 511's that I wear now. When we get detailed out I wear BDUs and fits nicely in the pants or the slash pockets on the shirt. I always carry it opposite of the gun hand.

Though it should have been obvious, my '(n)ever carried a second gun' comment referenced my never carrying more than one (1) handgun. I often had a shotgun available...even when in mufti.

I was a LEO for thirty and one-half (30.5) years. I worked primarily in very large urban environments but was on the clock in forty-six (46) states. I was in contact with thousands of LEO's in my career. They were from many agenices...large and small. NEVER, EVER, DID I HEAR AN ACCOUNT FROM ANY LEO WHO EVER HAD THE NEED FOR A SECOND HANDGUN.

In addition, I personally never had a need for a second handgun and have been involved in many incidents requiring use of a gun. That includes both on- and off-duty scenarios. Moreover, I have never had a non-intentional misfire/fail to fire in almost forty (40) years of shooting.

To opine that command officials were derelict in their duties is simply ignorant on your part. Even more ignorant are your statements regarding safety rules and the union contract. I can assure you we were wholly in compliance.

Be safe.

I see my old thread has been brought back from the dead. A few comments...

I tried the font pocket pants carry but it didn't work out for me. There's just too much stuff on the belt, especially now that we carry tasers. A taser serves a very valuable purpose in the grand scheme of the use of force. I'd rather have a taser on the weak side instead of a backup gun in the front pocket. Of course I DO carry a backup gun, on the front of the vest. Lately it's my 2" 625 with extra loaded moonclips in my bag.

There seems to be some hostility toward the very concept of the backup gun. Mine sees frequent use on the street, dispatching sick and injured animals in an often urban environment using shot loads or reduced loads. There has never been any collateral damage. I'm well aware that the day might come when it saves my life. Likely, no; possible, yes.

And the best news of all? I'll be retiring ASAP after the new year.

Dave Sinko

I alternate between my LCP and my 642 in my weak side front pocket (in pocket holster). I adjusted my taser position on my belt in order to have access to my left front pocket. I actually get mad at myself on the rare occasion when I forget and leave for work without my backup. I train and practice drawing with my left hand (should my strong arm/hand be disabled).

Geez, Dave, a 2" 625 on your vest? How do you explain away the giant tumor? That's worse than the guy pocket carrying Commanders and G17s, who dresses you guys?

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

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I'm a police legal advisor. Been doing LE legal in different settings for a long time. Your experiences may support your position, and I have never needed a BUG either, but I cannot imagine working without one. You are one of very few I have ever heard assert that it is not a safety violation to prohibit second handguns (and a few savvy arguments have been made for 3rd, which is where they place the J frame). I was first sworn in 1989, and as far as I can recall, never worked in a uniformed slot where I did not carry a BUG.

I've seen what our state analog to OSHA does to agencies that have unsound policies because of stupid command tricks, and even mere inattention. Big fines for allowing a uniformed officer to work without a vest; big fines for a holster that is not sufficiently secure. Big fines for unreliable or otherwise inadequate radio systems. It would be very hard for a command officer to make it through a Loudermill hearing for taking a position against ordinary, threshold minimum safety gear such as a BUG. They certainly would be savaged in a deposition in a civil suit resulting from an officer being injured. I also would never expect a reasonable civil defense attorney for an agency to attempt to defend it; there would be a settlement once that silliness became of record. I cannot imagine any qualified expert testifying for such a command officer, and if the union contract allowed for such silliness, that's disgraceful. Fortunately, I cannot recall hearing any command ranked officer, even at the most messed up agency in this state (I have one in mind, and I refer to them for cause as "The Adhocracy"), asserting that BUGs are bad. I've met a few Captains and plenty of Lts. in uniformed slots who carry BUGs, because they still remember from where they came.

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NHI, 10-8.

Pocket Carry while sitting-too slow
Ankle Carry- too slow
Jimmy's Method- IWB Holster carried on vest with the metal clip clipped to vest strap. weapon is positioned on strong side with butt facing forward for draw with weak hand. (depending on the vest construction, IWB holster can be inside vest strap with metal clip on the outside of the vest strap)

I work plain clothes with issued glock 22 on right hip. Glock 42 in left front pocket.

Long ago, when our policy did not flat out prohibit BUGS, I would carry a Model 38 Bodyguard Airweight in my weak side front pocket to have something to fight with just in case something happened to my issue M64. When we began issuing Glock 17 handguns in the late '80, BUGS were prohibited and still are. Off duty, I carry a old M60 or a 442 in a pocket holster as a BUG, or rarely as a primary. Even though I am plainclothes now (IA), I still insist on having a shotgun in the car. That is my "BUG" in a sense...

Most, but not all, of the LE officers I know amazingly do not carry a back-up. In almost all cases, these officers wear uniforms that are too tight to allow proper pocket carry, and even if the uniform is fitted properly, the equipment on the Sam Browne belt seems to interfere with pocket access so much that the officers cannot even put car keys in the pocket, instead hanging them on a belt prong or sticking a key behind the belt. On the strong side the holster, usually a Level 2 at least, with absolutely NO give or flexibility prevents any access to the front pocket, and on the weak side, it is a combination of the magazine pouch, handcuff case, ASP holder, Pepper Spray holder or Taser holder that prevents access.

For most of these folks, a vest holster is the only viable option, accessible when the uniform shirt is unzipped. The vest holster is fitted to the straps which secure the front and back panels of the vest. The holster is usually mounted in between the body and the straps in order to prevent it from "flopping" around during movement. Once tried, most have found this method uncomfortable, and refuse to do it on a daily basis. In addition, most find ankle holsters do not work, even the type designed for the combat type of boots they wear, and like vest carry, those who have tried it are not comfortable with that mode of carry.

This is unfortunate, as it seems to me that all officers should be allowed to carry a back up gun and they should have the ability, given issue or required equipment to have a place for that back up gun.