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Old 08-15-2010, 09:23 PM
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Discovered today that Downtown at the Gardens, an outside mall area in Palm Beach Gardens, FL, post a sign denying CCW even with a permit. I'm not a lawyer, and this has probably been covered before, but can they do that? What a stupid signal to send to criminals whom now have another "gun safe zone" to commit crimes in.:eek:
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:30 PM
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Depends on state law, but generally, if it is private property, yes the owners can deny concealed carry.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:55 PM
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In Maryland almost all permits have restrictions ON them. So the state can decide when you can defend yourself or not.

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Old 08-15-2010, 09:58 PM
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Not to sound like a typical young whipper-snapper but, I respect laws and I don't care much for rules. This means that I always carry in non-carry friendly places (example: malls with signs posted), but never where law prohibits (example: federal buildings). Just keep it concealed and there's nothing to talk about.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:06 PM
bravo619 bravo619 is offline
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till the mall cop calls the police to talk to you about the holster in your waist. when you bent down.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:07 PM
bravo619 bravo619 is offline
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not the way i want to lose my permit thank you.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrison View Post
Depends on state law, but generally, if it is private property, yes the owners can deny concealed carry.
If you keep it concealed no one would ever know. If you had to draw to protect your families life in a "safe zone" dont think you would care. IMO if you get spotted by mall ninja they will just kick you off the property. Life has risk. BUT your results may vary.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:28 PM
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As a caveat, I am not a lawyer, but I do know the law. In the State of Florida, signs prohibiting the concealed carry of firearms by license holders are absolutely meaningless. Like any private property (your house, the local mall, Disney World, etc.), the property owner can prohibit firearms. Carrying a concealed firearm in those locations are not a violation of Florida law. If discovered, the property owner can ask you to leave as they have the right to prohibit the carrying of firearms on their property. If a Police Officer is called to the scene, and you refuse to leave at the officers request, you may be arrested for armed trespass.

If your firearm is properly concealed (as it should be), this will never be an issue. Carrying in areas in which the private property owner has posted a "firearms prohibited" sign is not...and I repeat...is not a violation of Florida law.

As per Florida Statute 790.06, (12) the following locations are the only places where a Florida license holder is prohibited from carrying.

790.06 (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

You can legally carry in any mall...its not on the above list. You can legally carry in Disney World...it is not on the above list. The mall owner can ask you to leave. The Mouse can ask you to leave. You can ask a concealed weapon holder who is carrying a firearm to leave your home. Its the right of any private property owner. If asked, you must comply, or you then risk arrest for trespass, as the property owner has asked you to leave.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Barsch; 08-16-2010 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:30 AM
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Barsch,thanks. I find that very useful for it is the same understanding of the statue that I carry under. In addition, I always perform positional spot checks when carrying to hopefully not give away my advantage. Thanks for the input.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:12 PM
miles71 miles71 is offline
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Quote:
You can legally carry in any mall...its not on the above list. You can legally carry in Disney World...it is not on the above list. The mall owner can ask you to leave. The Mouse can ask you to leave. You can ask a concealed weapon holder who is carrying a firearm to leave your home. Its the right of any private property owner. If asked, you must comply, or you then risk arrest for trespass, as the property owner has asked you to leave.
It has been discussed here I believe, but you cannot carry in Disney since they have a special liscense for their explosives. Be careful, the mouse knows.
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:45 PM
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The prohibition of carrying a concealed firearm in a location that has a permit to "use, store or transport explosives" applies only to employees.

Employees of Disney World, even those with a Florida concealed weapon permit, are prohibited from carrying a firearm on Disney World property and are additionally prohibited from storing a firearm in their vehicle while on Disney property.

This law is not applicable to the general public. It is a result of the enacted "Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008", more commonly known as the “Bring Your Gun to Work Law” which took effect on July 1, 2008. (Florida Statute 790.251)

Florida Statute 790.06 (12) lists the only places a Florida licensee is prohibited from carrying. An employee of course must follow their employers rules regarding the carrying of firearms, but it is an employee/employer issue, not a legal issue.

I'm certainly not advocating the carrying of a firearm in the Disney theme parks, there truly is no need as the security staff (the ones that you don't ever see) are fairly sharp. I am unaware of any shooting ever taking place within the Disney World parks themselves. It is a very safe place (downtown Disney is a different story).

The Mouse has powers over their employees only.

Last edited by Barsch; 08-16-2010 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:09 PM
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Disney's license to store explosives gives them the right to prohibit carry there as their own policy but it isnt prohibited by Florida law and besides that Disney doesn't like any involvement by LE. I witnessed a fight there between a guy with a Glock and a guy with a steel pipe. The guy with the Glock lost though he fired off a round before it jammed and he got his bell rung. No arrest was made and no police report was filed. He was only banned from working on Disney property and probably had quite a headache for a long time.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:12 PM
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Oklahoma has the same kind of mickey mouse (pardon the pun) type of laws on the books concerning CCW on private property. In fact there is not even a state law defining a non-CCW sign specified in the SDA ( Self Defense Act) laws. I've have seen everything from the standard gun buster sign to fancy script stating "No Weapons Are Permitted". Some of them are in Spanish and since I do not read,speak or understand spanish that's too bad.

It is not a case of state law if the private property is posted, but if you are discovered all they can do is ask you to leave. If you leave then it is no harm no foul. If you refuse to leave then it is a trespassing charge.

If you are doing it right no one will ever know you are carrying. If I have to defend myself and / or my family, then I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

The rule I go by if it's not covered by state or federal CCW laws then I "don't ask anyone's permission and I damn sure don't tell"
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:08 PM
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In states like FL, CO, some others it is the same law as "No shirts, No shoes, No service", but it is just easier to see they don't have a shirt. The owner could still service a friend without a shirt (assuming it's not a health code violation) if they wanted. On private property they can make all kinds of signs, signs, evrywhere signs, but not everyone will heed them.
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