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  #1  
Old 09-29-2010, 03:36 AM
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Don't think I've seen this discussed before:
I have hearing damage (MedEvac Huey's and .45 shooting in the days when we thought balled-up toilet paper was adequate hearing protection.
I carry a S&W 442 (.38sp AirWeight) and/or a Ruger LCP (.380"mousegun.") When practicing, I use molded ear plugs plus ear muffs. If I ever need to use my SD gun, I won't have my ear protection in. What is the quietest concealable weapon/ SD ammo combination to use.
I have read that .22 WMR is wicked-loud in a short-barrel revolver.
I am sure that a long barrel would be quieter but hard to conceal.
If the SHTF I won't worry about my hearing.
Thanks,
Buzz (cockerpoodle)
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Old 09-29-2010, 06:08 AM
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The best idea is to get a pair of amplified ear muffs that hunters use.
You will hear inside the house better AND it will protect your hearing.
Keep them with your nightstand gun.


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  #3  
Old 09-29-2010, 06:33 AM
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If and when it comes down to a crisis situation, you're not going to be worrying about your hearing.

Practice, on the other hand, needs hearing (and eye) protection.

Oddly, when I used to hunt, I never remembered the shotgun sound.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:26 AM
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Well, I've actually measured the dB on several guns, and in general, longer barrels mean less noise, and lower pressure cartridges mean less noise. So, of the ones I tested, .45ACP and .45 Colt were the lowest, at 155 db, .38spl +p was about 157, 9mm was about 159, and .357 magnum was by far the loudest at 165. These are fairly general readings, and will vary depending on the exact gun and the exact load. These may seem pretty close, but they're really not. The decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear, so each increase of about 3 dB means a doubling of the sound pressure, so the .357 was about four times louder than the 9mm. They are all very loud from a physiological standpoint, so hearing protection should always be used whenever possible. Now for the emergency scenario, you"ll have to decide what's practical.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:28 AM
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Depending on your state law, maybe you can put a can on your carry gun? That would quiet it down a lot, I reckon.

Seriously, though, apart from a bit of common sense - don't choose a knowingly blast-happy gun/caliber combination if you're going to be most likely shooting in very confined spaces - I wouldn't get to bent out of shape over it. A bit of hearing loss sure beats a lot of life loss, after all.
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Old 09-29-2010, 08:37 AM
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A Straight Razor!
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:34 AM
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Best trust me on this one.

If the SHTF, your hearing will be the last thing you need to be concerned about. Hearing loss comes from extended exposure to high decibels such as factory noise, closeness to aircraft and such. It can also be inherited. One or two shots in an area the size of a home is not going to be of concern. Inside a car it would matter if the widows were rolled up. Outdoors hearing a couple of shots will not be damaging.

Wearing earmuffs or any hearing protection during a crisis is not good. You may fail to hear a family members pleading, a suspect surrendering, words of caution in other directions and many more things. Suppose it was a plain clothes officer chasing a subject into your home and he is on the heels of the suspect yelling "Police Officer?" How are you going to hear him?

Granted there are many things other than gunshots that cause lack of hearing. Hunters seldom have hearing loss but they do not cover their ears for the most part. A person is more subject to hearing loss due to radio volume in a closed car than due to an in-home crisis in which shots are fired.

I have had to fire inside a home during an emergency. I never heard the gunshot. Being involved in a car crash will be more decibels.

Forty years ago, we would shoot all day long and I had never seen, worn or owned any hearing protection.

I own a dosimeter and have checked the levels of many things for legal reasons. You are exposed to things much worse and more often than a SHTF situation.
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Old 09-29-2010, 10:56 AM
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Actually, you can damage your hearing permanently after just one or two shots. Most people opt for terminal performance over hearing loss. If you're really worried about it, there are ear plugs that fit in the ear, look a bit like a hearing aid, that function the same as the tactical ear muffs. They filter out the loud noises, but normal conversation comes in crystal clear.

A suppressor actually is another option.

Otherwise get a 6" Model 28 and load it with .38 +P rounds. I've fired that indoors without ear protection, it just made a "pop". Model 30 or 31 revolvers in .32 SW Long - particularly the 3" guns - are also quiet. A full size 1911 isn't too bad either.

Now a .357 snub or some .357 Sig autos....
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2010, 05:36 PM
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Believe me, if you are involved in a shooting you will not notice the noise from your gun. After the fact you may remember a small "pop". Hearing is damaged by loud and continous exposure, not a few gunshots.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:21 PM
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You may not notice the noise, but it can still affect your hearing.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:31 PM
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Actually, hearing can be damaged by both continuous exposure to high noise levels or one time exposure to a very high noise level. If you've ever experienced ringing in the ears that lasted for 2 days or more, you've lost some of your hearing.

Now there are some mitigating factors that apply to a Self Defense shooting. One is that it does take a much higher intermittent exposure to cause the same level of damage as exposure to much lower noise levels for a prolonged period of time. Carpeting and funiture in a home will also reduce reflected noise and this will mitigate the damage, shoot a 38 spl. in your living area and you probably won't suffer any loss, shoot the same gun in a mostly empty basement with concrete walls and floor and you'll probably have some hearing loss. Shooting outside will also mitigage the effect of firing a gun without hearing protection. Barrel length will also reduce the emitted noise, my 6 1/2 inch 610 shooting 40 S&W is about equal in loudness to shooting a 4 inch 38 spl.. So, there are many factors that can act to mitigage any hearing damage.

However, these factors only go so far. Personally, I don't think the 357 Magnum is a good choice for a Defense caliber, it's just too loud out of any barrel shooter than 10 or 12 inches. Out of a typical carry revolver, the 357 Magnum will be loud enough that some hearing loss is nearly guaranteed. IMO, the best choice for a carry revolver is a modern 38 +P hollowpoint such as the Speer Gold Dot short barrel. For the Home, it's best to choose a gun with a longer barrel, such as the 6 inch 686, and load it with 38 +P hollowpoints for standard length barrels. You could also do as I did and get the long barreled 610 and load it up with 40 S&W hollowpoints, the first time I ever shot my 610 I was surprized at how quiet it was.

For semi's, you've seen the results posted above, the 45 ACP is the least damaging to the hearing in a major caliber. Personally, I chose the 40 S&W and it's an admittedly poor choice in terms of potential harm to the hearing. However, my excuse for making this choice is that I've found I shoot very well with the 40 caliber so in theory I may need fewer shots fired. Probably a pretty bone headed excuse, but I really do enjoy shooting my Sig P239 and won't give it up.

Finally there is one thing that can be done to insure your hearing will always be protected. Unfortunately, it is an expensive solution. That is electronic in the ear hearing protection. Cost for a fitted pair will run over 2000 dollars last time I looked but they are the ultimate answer. They are also probably a bit less costly than hearing aids, so while it's an expensive solution it may be a less expensive path to choose when you think long term.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:24 AM
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I really like the .22 Colibri rounds in my S&W Model 34 2" Kit Gun. 20-grain bullet, no powder just the priming compound. Quieter than an air rifle, does a good job on stray critters in my yard without drawing attention from the neighbors.

I don't think I would choose this combination for defensive use against 2-legged critters.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2010, 10:06 AM
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where did you put the meter when you measured the db level? I was going to do this to but did not have a good way to attach the meter to me at ear level.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:59 AM
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I had someone hold it near my ear from behind.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2010, 03:26 PM
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2010, 06:34 PM
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My cousin has a 4" Regulation Police in .32 Long and it is surprisingly quiet. No worse than a standard velocity 22 LR out of a 6 inch barrel.

That said, I think that a 5 or 6 inch barreled .38 spl or a full sized .45 auto would be the quietest practical option for most people.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:54 PM
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Some one mentioned electronic ear muffs. I use them a lot, both for hunting and for all target shooting. A pair lays on nightstand with my house guns. I have very bad hearing. SOP for me, once I hear something bothersom, is to put this electronic ear muffs on and turn them to full amplifications. THEN I can hear really well and identify sounds that I cannot without them. Think of them as "flashlights for ears".

Hope I have time to put them on when someone tries to break in!!!

Niklas
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2010, 05:41 PM
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I agree with the recommendation to use 38 spl +P or 45 ACP for self defense in the home.

Something to remember is that the 85 DB limit you may have read about is for continous exposure over an eight hour period with the exposure time being cut in half for every 3 DB over that. A gunshot is an impulse event lasting between 2 and 3 milliseconds. Even if I discount the ability of the tensor tympani and stapedius muscles to provide some protection from short, loud noises, this means a one time exposure to about 155 DB is probably not going to damage your hearing permanently.

So the high pressure cartridges like the 9mm, 357 magnum, 40 S&W, 357 sig are not nearly as safe for your hearing as the milder 38 spl (P and +P) or 45 ACP. Especially indoors where reflections will lengthen the expoure time.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:20 PM
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Most likely you will not have to use your gun in SD.
If those stars align, and you have too...
ringing in your ears will be the result. (if your lucky)

If its that much of an issue, wear ear plugs during your waking hours.
Your quality of life will be reduced to '****' and your awareness will be hindered,
thus making you a target. good luck with that....
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:12 AM
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I really appreciate all your suggestions.
Since one of my concerns is coyotes when I walk my cockerpoodle, I'm planning to buy a .22lr (probably M317 or M34, 2 inch) for 4-legged varmints. I will also continue to carry my LCP .380 for the 2-legged variety.
I also like the idea of in-the-ear electronic attenuator plugs. I did some e-research and there are several hearing aids (I could use the amplifcation) which also incorporate attenuation.
Again, thanks
Buzz (cockerpoodle)
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:26 PM
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I am a fan of the 357mag, using it in both a 2.5" Model 19-4 and a Model 686-1 4".
I often read on the net the opinion that muzzle blast is too great to use it for SD. There must be some LEO's on here who used the 357mag, and I would like to read their opinion.
When this subject comes up, I think of my Father, who was a WWII vet. He experienced artillery bombardments from both ends, and had fired everything from 45 pistols to Garands to greaseguns, 30 and 50cal machine guns, and the 37mm cannon on his armored car. He also participated in house and building clearing using any of the small arms available. He heard fine for the rest of his life.....Likewise, I have known vets of heavy fighting in WWII, Korea, Viet Nam...none of them evidenced severe hearing loss...Can a few rounds of 357mag be worse than numerous belts through an MG42 or a Browning 50cal, things my Father did?

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  #22  
Old 10-02-2010, 01:22 PM
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Evil One & NiklasP Have a very good point about the electronic
muffs. My hearing hasn't descended to the point of embarassment,
...Yet, but it's headed that way. Leave a set right by your firearm,
and grab both. The darn things work a miracle for your hearing.
Mine are Walker GameEars, but there are some out there that work just as well for about $30 on e-bay. You'll be amazed at the results.
When outdoors, the ECHO comes in louder than the shot.
TACC1
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2010, 03:30 PM
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I have always used a .45 Auto for the purpose, on the theory that volume of the propellant and the pressure of the discharged round are the criteria for keeping the noise down. Any of the high-pressure rounds like .40SW, 10mm, .357 Magnum, or .357SIG, would be my last choice. In a revolver, .44 Special or .45 Colt would be my choice.

I used to have a friend whose hearing was permanently damaged with a single 12-ga round that was accidently fired in his home. 8-foot ceilings, ordinary construction and furnishings. One single round. For the rest of his life, he had to take extraordinary precautions around any sort of loud noise - noises that most of us wouldn't give a second thought.

Saying "you will not hear the shot" in an emergency may be perfectly true, but the damage will nonetheless occur. Just ask any ear-hearing specialist that cares to be truthful with you. Sure, it is better to incur the damage than to be killed by an attacker, but it is no joking matter.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockerpoodle2 View Post

I really appreciate all your suggestions.
Since one of my concerns is coyotes when I walk my cockerpoodle, I'm planning to buy a .22lr (probably M317 or M34, 2 inch) for 4-legged varmints. I will also continue to carry my LCP .380 for the 2-legged variety.
)
You'd likely have far better results on coyotes using the .32 SW Long from a 3" J frame. Any of the later .32 H&R mag or .327 mag guns will also chamber and fire this ammunition. It seems to have less of a crack than some of the hot .22 LR offerings when fired from a handgun.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:56 AM
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I live in Michigan, so unfortunately I can't fulfill my wish, but I would love a supressor. Not for the cool "James Bond" effect, but because if someone enters my home to do my family harm, I want to be able to discern fire from the BG, any other BGs, and be able to hear my family.

I don't think a supressor is needed to protect my / my families hearing in a SHTF situation, but I think it would be, in the right situation, just as effecient as a light or laser or night sights.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:12 PM
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If you ever have to use the carry gun 'for real' you probably won't hear it go off. Also possible hearing damage will be the least of your worrys.

For other kinds of shooting wear earplugs or muffs, or both. (I like both)
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:31 AM
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I am glad to hear that many have not experienced hearing loss from their firearms. I was not so fortunate. I was always fanatical about hearing protection. I always use the highest rated muffs and often plugs too. Once and I mean once, I took them off at the range to talk to someone to in the next booth on my left. As I turned back and started to put my hearing protection back on, the shooter on my right picked up his firearm ahead of the commence fire, and had a ND. It has been three years and the ringing has not stopped. Plus I clearly have more difficulty understanding speech in noisey environments.
I agree in a self defense situation, my life is more important than my hearing, but it doesn't hurt to to think about your choices.
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