3" J frame vs. PK380

[Greg D]

Right now I carry an older steel frame 3" j frame. I am also thinking about buying a Walther PK380. Are there any advantages of the PK380 over the 3" j frame?

[photoman]

Simplicity of operation, reliability, ammo availability are the first things that come to mind that are an advantage of the J frame.

[MgoBlue]

Man, I can't think of an advantage of the PK380 over the J-frame. It's not more concealable, ammo is much harder to obtain, punch of the round is less than the J-frame.

I'm not bashing the .380 round -- heck, I've been known to back pocket-carry a Seecamp now and then (when I really can't carry anything else). But, I sure do love the J-frame. Heck, I love too many guns to mention!!

[GatorFarmer]

I don't have one of those Walthers. I do have a 3" 36-1 and a 3" 31-1. I've had other .380s - Interarms PPK, Sig 232, Bersa, Llama, etc. The wife still has a P3AT.

I just bought a 100rd pack of .380 FMJ the other day for the wife. I haven't seen any .38 in a while. Availibility thus depends when it comes to ammo and eventually .380 will catch up with demand.

Anyway, the general "pros" to .380 autos in these debates are - faster reload time, great capacity, sometimes lighter weight, sometimes better sights, sometimes less recoil. There also tends to be less muzzle blast until you get into the real micro .380s.

General pros to the snubs - reliable, simple, less maintenance, easier to use weak handed (no chance of limp wristing)

Same basic weight and similar bulk to a 3" steel J frame and you can simply tote one of the Baby Glocks like the 26 or 27. I continue to believe that these are the best of the compact guns if one wants more rounds or a bigger bullet than a J frame can deliver.

[VictorLouis]

Research that Walther in its original .22LR format. You should find enough negative information to give you pause about carrying one for your defensive needs. Stick with your J.

[pawncop]

When I was on patrol, I carried a Walther PPK 380 ACP inside the vest and knew of at least two (2) other officers that did the same.

I switched to a Glock model 23, in late 2000. For the same weight, I now had 16 rounds of 40 S&W versus 8 rounds of 380 ACP. The Glock was a little more blocky, but in the manner I carried it, no one knew.

Doncha just some one that mixes it up and doesn't answer your question?

OK then, I give the Walther a slight edge due to 8 rounds versus 5.

The other points regarding ammo availability are well stated.

[Frank237]

THIS was the eternal probklem way back when I was first a cop in the 1970's. I loved my Smith snubbie, but the PPK/s carried more rds, and was easier to conceal. I carried that Walther for several years as a back up gun and off duty.

With todays +P capable 3" J's THATS the route I'd take now. The extra inch of barrelallows for better ballistics as well.

Then again...the PPK was good enough for James Bond??

FN in MT

[Erich]

the PPK was good enough for James Bond

Yeah, but he used a .32!

Truth is, I see the .380 and .38 as filling different roles. I have a LCP (tiny, flat and light) in .380 (I carry 95-gr DT ball at about 950 fps) that I use for deep concealment. A J-frame is somewhat less simple to conceal. (A 3" J works just as well as a 1 7/8" in every carry mode except pocket-carry, I've found. I do love my 36-1 and put it on this morning. )

If you want to get the new Walther, have at it. Holds more rounds and probably reloads faster than the J-frame (once you get past that different sort of mag release) - maybe those would be advantages to you. But there are any number of guns that I would buy before the Walther, guns that are no bigger and either hold more rounds or hold more powerful rounds (that are cheaper and easier to find - 9x19) or do both. It's a free country, though - buy what you'd like. You're the only one who has to justify it . . . and you have to justify it based on subjective assessments that none of us are privy to.

[wolfpuppies3]

most have an opinion about. Personally, I have a M60 (.357) and LCR (.38+p) as well as a PPKS and LCP in .380. The best people stopper in the crowd is the .357 with the .38 +P a close second. No getting around it.

Given the choice, I will always select either of the small revolvers as they have a lot more stopping power. The LCR is much lighter. For front jeans pocket wear, as in shorts, the LCP with appropriate ammo is a distant second choice. The PPKS looks good in the safe as it's pretty.

[hdfinder47]

J frame has my vote (is what I carry) due to reliability, simplicity, cost / availability of ammo, and accuracy (for me). But I could live with either.

[Brian48]

I carried a SW M60 j-frame for over 16+ years, but switched over to the PK380 this year after shooting it for a while. It's a great little gun. Granted, it's not as compact as my all-steel j-frame and I just can't slip it into my trousers, but it still conceals pretty well. It's light, reliable, and shoots like crazy. I may still carry my j-frame in situations where I have to, but for the most part, I'm very comfortable with the PK380 and the added firepower it offers.

[paladin42]

You can get a 9mm in a handgun about the same size as a .380acp. IMHO the only thing less useful than a .380acp is a .25acp.

I use and trust my J-Frames in .38 Special and larger.

[cmort666]

I'll take the .38 Special 158gr. LSWC-HP +P "FBI" load over ANY .380acp load I've ever heard of. I regularly carry a 2" Model 36 and have that load in it.

I would only carry a .380 if there was simply no way to carry anything bigger.

[Captain Hornet]

The 380 is a small, puney ineffective cal and is not really enough for personal defence. In my opinion, you would be much better served with the 38 special. There are many plus P loads that are very effective and would be a much better choice. Why carry a mouse gun when you could carry a real gun. David

[Tom Servo]

the PPK was good enough for James Bond

Actually, he derided it in one of the early books. His favorite gun had been a Beretta .25.

I second the others on the utility of the J-Frame. It's a proven design, while the Walther is relatively new, and I'd go with what I know.

[PeterCartwright]

I'll leave to the professionals the arguments pro and con for the two platforms. I would note, however, that BOTH the .380 and the .38 Spl. have benefited from a great deal of R & D on the propellant and projectile fronts. Both are a great deal more effective than even a decade ago. I've never owned a PPK, nor have I played with the current crop of micro .380s. I very much like my 60-4, however.

PC

[Amend2]

.38 vs .380? I often carry one of each: a KT P3AT in the RF pants pocket and a S&W 642 in a belt holster.

[CQB60]

Not really, the astute folks have already cited as advantages of the J- frame. I'd stay away from 380

[rljohns]

I was looking at the same two weapons a year ago and the S&W Mod 60 .357 won my evaluation. The .357 just seemed to be a better round.

[rose00]

The only small auto I carry is a Makarov. I used to have a Walther PP, a beautiful gun but not 100% reliable, The Mak has never refused a cartridge, never jammed, and with its 3.6" barrel is incredibly accurate. Its 9x18 cartridge is more powerful than a .380, but not as powerful as the .38 Special. But the snub revolver is super reliable as well, which is why I also carry a S&W 2" Model 10 (slightly larger and heavier than the 36 or 60, but with 6 shots; it is also less painful to shoot.
My two cents for what its worth (about 2 cents).

[rjroberts]

I have both J and PPK. The arguments have been well made already - PPK (I know the op said PK, talking slight differences) more concealable, more rounds. J is totally reliable.

I'll just throw "buffalo bore ammunition" into the mix. They have a couple of rounds which approach 9 mm para in performance, and far exceed .38.

[gunrunner2]

Originally Posted by hdfinder47

J frame has my vote (is what I carry) due to reliability, simplicity, cost / availability of ammo, and accuracy (for me). But I could live with either.

Not sure I'am in the right place, Can any one help ? Looking to purchase a Model 60 LS for my wife. Any info

[ExplorerOne]

My thoughts are its a personal choice, my carry guns include a KelTeck PT3AT and a S&W 442. Choice is commonly dependent on attire of the day.

[tpd223]

Not only would I not choose a .380 over a J frame, but the pistol is question is a new, unproven model that is an evolution of a .22 that has marginal reliability and durability.

The .380 in it's very best loads is still marginal for defensive use.

[celticfisherman]

THis is funny...

I carry both. Some TV show did a expansion test on the 380 now. Penetrated heavy clothing and everything. The new rounds are really good.

If you want to get serious about it I guess we could say the ultimate self defense round is the 45 ACP and therefore anything smaller than that is inadequate. I mean a 45 will disintegrate a concrete block. But yet I haven't found a bad guy toting one around his neck.

Which of these two guns can you carry comfortably all the time? Which do you feel you will shoot the most and be able to be the most accurate. That should make your decision. Both the 38 and the 380 have effectively taken down bgs in the past and will again.

BTW- I carry a Kel Tec P3AT or a S&W 66 or a Walther PPK.

[Tbone38]

I have 3" model 36 that the hammer has been bobbed on, and it makes you feel all tingly when you shoot it. I have to pat down my buddy after he shoots it because he has tried to take it on several occasions. I vote on the J frame. Ive never had a failure to feed with mine.

[RussellD]

I have owned both. Still have the j frame, sold the PPK. The Walther has name recognition and the James Bond mystique. Aside from that, the little .380 has lots of sharp edges, a poor trigger pull and can be finicky about which ammo it like.

The J frame is simple, works with what ever I reload or purchase for it, and it is just as accurate. 158 grain +p lead swc out of a snub trumps any .380 load. YMMV

[gunrunner2]

Just picked up S&W Model 60 in a Ladysmith for my wife , Went to the Range last night , My Wife loved the Ladysith very much , She fired off about 50 rnds. without a problem 38 SPL+p. I also fired off another 50 rnds. very happy with the Model 60. I would highly recomend this Model 60.

[satori59]

I have two carry guns. A 3" M&P 360. and a Walther PPS in 9mm. I carry the Smith J-frame 90% of the time so you know how I'd feel about the .380 PPK...

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

While Hawaii does not have CCW, Personally, If I had a choice between a 5 shot revolver and an 9 or 11 shot 380, I'd go with the 380.

I have Wather PPK/s, Colt Mustang, Beretta 70S, Sig 232, Beretta 84 and
a Beretta 86. Planning to sell off the Colt, PPk/s and Beretta 70S in the near future. The Sig and 84 are for the Wife.

Of them all, we like the Beretta 80 series best. They are like a mini 92/96. Never gave us any problems. All the controls fall easily to hand.
Their weight isn't bad and their feel is great.

Admittedly, the 380 is not as potent as a 38, but, I think that 9(M-85/86) to 15(M-84) of them will beat 5 rounds of 38.

[NE450No2]

Since I would never carry a 38 or a 380 as a Primary, I think of them as back up guns...

So I much prefer the S&W, as in a close quarter grappling situation, I much prefer the reliability of the revolver.

[Bear Bait]

Originally Posted by Greg D

Right now I carry an older steel frame 3" j frame. I am also thinking about buying a Walther PK380. Are there any advantages of the PK380 over the 3" j frame?

I generally like the older ones, and own a couple of Walther PPKs's (pre S&W) as well as at present one S&W J-Frame. I always preferred my Walthers for concealed carry years ago, but they live in the safe these days and have not been fired for a while.

I am a Walther fan of sorts dating back to the PP series pistols, and own a couple of modern ones as well, a P99 and a PPS. The PPS is my always gun, and travels with me daily whether I am carrying another or not. It is the same basic size as a J-Frame, a more powerful round, more accurate for me, and holds more rounds. Personally, I would skip another .380, especially the size of the Walthers, for a carry gun, and if I was going to use one would rather have my old PP guns, a SIG, Beretta or several others before the new PK380. And yes, I am familiar with and indeed have shot a PK380. In my opinion, the Walther PPS in 9mm (my personal preference) or .40 is vastly superior for defensive use in a similar size package.

Of the several handguns I own, the four loaded guns spread around my home at the moment are my Ed Brown 1911 carry gun, my wife's S&W Model 60 J-Frame carry gun, my Walther P99, and the other is my PPS. If a bad guy came through the door right now I would be happy to get my hands on any of the four, but my 1911 would be my first choice and the J-Frame would be the last I would go for if I got to choose.

[gunrunner2]

On my post about the Model 60 LS this J frame is a 357. My range visit at the time ( only had 38spl+p on hand ), I didn't have any 357 ammo. So I will follow up with a range report soon. Target would be 38 defense would be 357. I think that is enough stoping power?

[imjin138]

I like my 3 inch 36 so that swhat I use, I have PPK's in 32 and 380, but for simplicity I stick with the model 36

[safearm]

I carry a 2" J frame and a Ruger LCP. Most of the time, I carry both together. I realize that I really didn't answer your question, but I don't see the utility of either a 3" J frame or the Walther .380. If you're going to carry the J frame in a belt holster, the 3" model is as good as anything else, but it is harder to carry in a pocket or an ankle holster. If you're going to get a gun the size of the Walther, get a PPS in 9mm.

[walnutred]

I find I'm able to shoot my 3" M37 much better than my 2" J frame. IF I want to pocket carry I use a hip grip and a pocket holster and clip the revolver to my front pocket. Only works for jeans, not dress pants. The pocket holster helps break up the outline of the pistol and protects the pocket liner.