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Old 11-22-2010, 08:53 PM
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Default CCW in NY State (questions)

Hi,
Been reading a bit on the internet in regard to CCW Permits in NY State and there seems to be some confusion by some and this has got me wondering about a couple things myself;

1. My understanding is that current law states that carry is "concealed only"...is that correct?

2. Also, many carry permits issued now have restrictions, (hunting-target-camping-hiking etc.); so with them restrictions, obviously, that's when you should be carrying...however, what about when your in between activities; in example would be when your out hunting and go to town for lunch...are you within the law to go into stores/diners to eat etc. with the handgun on you? Or are you suppose to lock the handgun in a vehicle?
I know I would want to keep the weapon in my possesion...suppose your riding in a friends vehicle, where multiple persons are riding...I would not want to take the chance of leaving it...
Or if the vehicle was stolen etc.

Anyway, I obtained my "pistol permit" back in 92 and wondering what the current law is??? My permit doesn't even say CCW Permit...It says;
"License to carry pistol is hereby granted"

Thanks for any help!
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:53 PM
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1- no open carry in NY
2- Never leave the gun in your car, been told that by many LEO's and a few judges. No one will bother you as long as your "stop" is to or from the activity for which you're licensed. Also be aware that in Westchester for example, the DA has instructed PD's to not clog her calender with "administrative" violations.

What county do you reside in?
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
1- no open carry in NY
2- Never leave the gun in your car, been told that by many LEO's and a few judges. No one will bother you as long as your "stop" is to or from the activity for which you're licensed. Also be aware that in Westchester for example, the DA has instructed PD's to not clog her calender with "administrative" violations.

What county do you reside in?
Thanks for the reply! Oneida
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew-67 View Post
My permit doesn't even say CCW Permit...It says;
"License to carry pistol is hereby granted"

Thanks for any help!
Forgot to mention, ALL NYS licenses say " License to carry is hereby granted". Some counties/jurisdictions take it upon themselves to print restrictions on the license such as hunting, target shooting, etc. If yours does not have the restrictions printed upon them, I don't see how any LEO would know the difference, unless he's local and knows that only restricted licenses are issued in Oneida.
In Putnam, we've been moving away from restricted licenses, and AFAIK only new licensee's get restrictions on their license. After a year or so, upon petitioning the judge, restrictions are generally removed.
Hope this helps. Feel free to pm me if I can help you in any way.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:31 PM
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i was told by a state policeman during a traffic stop, after
he looked at my license to carry, that the C in front of the number
of your permit is what lets them know that you can carry concealed
and have no restrictions

my license has nothing on it as far as restrictions go and i would guess
that each county puts on the license if there are any restrictions...
how else would anyone reading the license know otherwise?

but......i would take this with a few grains of salt as i am no expert

best to check with your county's pistol permit clerk
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:07 PM
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So you guys/gals in New York can only carry for certain state/county approved activities? What type of restrictions would be on someone's permit? Sounds strange to me.
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourang? View Post
i was told by a state policeman during a traffic stop, after
he looked at my license to carry, that the C in front of the number
of your permit is what lets them know that you can carry concealed
and have no restrictions
I'm not so sure about that, as I had a restricted license for a number of years with a "C" in front of the numbers. When I was able to get my restrictions removed, the "C" and numbers stayed the same. All the restricted licenses that I've seen were stamped as such.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:13 PM
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Drew,

the judge in most counties is the "issuing official" in others it is the clerk.

The judges set the restrictions, if you violate them, you aren't commiting a crime, but you are violating the conditions of the restrictions and face revocation. To be safe, only carry it to and from your activity, or move to a friendlier county.

As far as those letter C's in front of the number, I was told that is a civilian carry #, as opposed to the license issued to security guards who can carry while working.

Bill,

issuing judges in some, not all counties, restrict the licenses to hunting-target. In some places you can jump through a few hoops and get them lifted, not in others.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:28 PM
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hi drew , in this state ( at least in my county ) if someone rabbis the permit to the judge you can get a conceiled ( un -restricted ) carry permit , but it is not legal in New York city , but a New York City carry is good thru out the state , another set of wacky laws ,
not trying to ruin your day , but also in my county you can be selected to join the sherrif posse ( really posse ) and after 10 yrs on the posse you can then can apply under the new HR law as a piece officer for a federal carry, I tried to teach one posse to shoot ( I finally gave up, no hope ) & he had a full carry and never made a arrest ???
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:24 PM
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these limitations are HIGHLY dependent on the issuing county. as a general rule most rural counties issue all or mostly "unrestricted" permits while the larger towns and urban areas put "restrictions" on permits. As noted above it is NOT ilegal to carry outside your restriction, it is a violation of the permits administrative rules, so again if caught and an issue made of it, you can lose your permit which in NY means you can't own a handgun at all. Unless you get in a gunfight or commit a crime or are seen carrying there have been few if any cases of problems with carrying outside of restrictions.-Let me explain-you CAN carry concealed under the restrictions- so you are going to or from your hunting area,gun club etc.-legal to carry -Never heard of a cop taking exception with a permit holder who was forthcoming with info. Not saying it can't happen obviously. And most permit agenices provide a letter of code of conduct if you will when you get your permit indicating it's not a good idea-not illegal mind you to carry in bars resturants liquor stores etc. I strongly advise against leaving a gun in a car- most counties if the car is stolen or the gun stolen from the car will see this as ground to revoke pistol permit
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:27 PM
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what county are you from? that will tell a lot-as a general rule if your permit does not have a restriction printed on it(like target and hunting only) it is an unrestrcited permit.
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD View Post
I strongly advise against leaving a gun in a car- most counties if the car is stolen or the gun stolen from the car will see this as ground to revoke pistol permit

Couldn't agree more MajorD, try splainin' that one to the pooooleece.
Carry the gun, very few LEO's are going to hassle you, they see that you're licensed and know what it takes to obtain a license in this State. From the LEO's that I know they could care less if you're "restricted" or not, they know it's all BS anyways. You've been printed, investigated and OK'd usually by a judge.

The key, here in NY, is to elect pro-gun judges. This is exactly what we did here in Putnam. We plan on keeping him in office too.
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Last edited by ladder13; 11-24-2010 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 02:10 PM
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Well, once again this Forums members have proven how awesome this Forum is...Thanks for all the Help!
Appreciate the clarification and thoughts on all...
My main concern was how LEO and those governing the Permit would look at carrying when in between doing activities; like hunting, target, camping and hiking etc.
Obviously, one would want to use good judgement...but given the fact that we're responsible for the handguns 24/7, I would not be comfortable leaving a handgun behind in a vehicle, or wherever else! If I was in-between activities...to me the safest place is concealed with ME...
Hadn't really thought to much about this subjct all these years...But, now that I got "SMITH-ITIS"; I am carrying daily...
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:23 PM
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One of the biggest problems here in NY was someone starting some stupid rumor that if you put down on your permit application that you wanted the gun for personal protection the judge may not grant your permit. There is a question of what you want the permit for on the form, always, always, list that you want it for target practice, competitive shooting, AND PERSONAL PROTECTION !!! Otherwise, the judge can place restrictions on the permit if you just write down tatget practice. Not to mention setting yourself up for mucho problems if you have to cap someone in self defense. Shoo
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooboy View Post
One of the biggest problems here in NY was someone starting some stupid rumor that if you put down on your permit application that you wanted the gun for personal protection the judge may not grant your permit. There is a question of what you want the permit for on the form, always, always, list that you want it for target practice, competitive shooting, AND PERSONAL PROTECTION !!! Otherwise, the judge can place restrictions on the permit if you just write down tatget practice. Not to mention setting yourself up for mucho problems if you have to cap someone in self defense. Shoo
I don't live in NYS anymore but I still visit occasionally and have friends and family there, many of whom are permit holders. I must respectfully disagree with what you're saying. It has long been understood that in some counties personal protection is disfavored as grounds for applying. A friend of mine who lives up toward Watertown recently got his permit and the restrictions were imposed. He mentioned self-defense during his interview and the judge told him "that's what the police are for."

I also disagree with your claim that a person somehow loses the right to self-defense by stating that they want a handgun for target practice. What you put on your application is not the controlling law in such a situation. The NY Penal Law is.
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shooboy View Post
One of the biggest problems here in NY was someone starting some stupid rumor that if you put down on your permit application that you wanted the gun for personal protection the judge may not grant your permit. There is a question of what you want the permit for on the form, always, always, list that you want it for target practice, competitive shooting, AND PERSONAL PROTECTION !!!
If you don't ask for unrestricted why would they give it to you? I hear the same thing all the time, shoo, it's ridiculous to ask for "hunting and target" cause that's what you're going to get.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:58 PM
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The NYS Pistol Permit appl as now posted on the NYSP site,,gives you a choice of 3 different permits.
Carry Concealed,,,Possess on Premises,, or Possess/Carry During Employment.

You check which one then you must answer: A License is Required for the Following Reason._________.

You have to put something down in that entry.
If you put 'for self defense' and the issuing authority doesn't happen to see the need for such,, the permit can be denied.

If you just put 'for target shooting or hunting",,there's a very good chance the issuing Judge will put a restriction on the permit for the use during only those activitys.

This is not a 'shall issue' state. The issuing auth. does pretty much anything they deem correct. They can deny, revolk, or restrict the permits.

Not all Judges are doing that,,but a large number are.
I have seen a permit restricted 'Not for Concealed Carry'.
Since that is the choice on the application (other than a premises or emplyment need),,seems odd that the restriction would be imposed,,but you never know what the Judge will do.

Some will not allow additions unless one handgun is removed at the same time,,,keeps the owner to a minimum number of guns that for some reason the Judge sees as safe.



State law allows a permit holder to move his/her permit to another county, even though you don't change residence. The records move with it and some do it to avoid the harsh treatment by some Judges.
But a restriction, if there, may follow you also. Judges are hesitant to un-do the work of another.

It's almost become a game, trying to figure how to word the appl and which Judge/juristiction can give the best result.

Last edited by 2152hq; 11-24-2010 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:12 AM
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Some more very interesting thoughts in these last few posts...Sounds like; damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Kinda puts the applicant in a real bad position, because taking the chance of NOT being able to have a handgun at all, would be totally, a major loss...I can't imagine.
Certainly much better to have one and "deal" with restrictions.

Just seems like with everything you have to go through to obtain a carry permit to begin with, it would be totally un-restricted when first issued...Then if you did something after the fact to warrant it, they could impose the restrictions at that time.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:24 AM
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After reading all the hoops one must go through, I'd move out of New York or elect some different people
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew-67 View Post
Some more very interesting thoughts in these last few posts...Sounds like; damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Kinda puts the applicant in a real bad position, because taking the chance of NOT being able to have a handgun at all, would be totally, a major loss...I can't imagine.
Certainly much better to have one and "deal" with restrictions.

Just seems like with everything you have to go through to obtain a carry permit to begin with, it would be totally un-restricted when first issued...Then if you did something after the fact to warrant it, they could impose the restrictions at that time.
Drew, one is going to get a license either way, they won't deny you unless they have real good reason.
So, imo, asking for a non-restricted license can't hurt. Of course, some counties won't give unrestricted no matter what, so that makes it moot.
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Last edited by ladder13; 11-26-2010 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:20 PM
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hi Drew , contact New York State rifle & pistol association and contact your local representive , he most likey can answews any questions , if you cannot pm me and see what I can find out for you , a good freind is my local rep,
robbt
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:24 PM
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I also reside in Oneida County and just acquired my pistol license this summer. Here in Oneida County, we have to take the NRA Pistol saftery course before we can even pick up our application forms for the permit. My permit has hiking, camping, hunting and target restrictions on it. The safety course instructor is a comeptitive shooter and very involved in the NRA, and i think in some sort of leadership postition in the NRA. He is very well informed on NY and particularly Oneida county as far as pistol permits and what is allowed. He informed us that at this time, Oneida county will NOT issue unrestricted permits unless you can prove just cause for it. For example: you are a person who transports large sums of cash frequently, or are a business person who is in possession of large sums of cash. He told us other than that, the judge here will only issue restricted permits. I would mention his name, but I dont have his permission to do so. All i will say is that he teaches the safety course at Gander mountain in New Hartford, I would think you may be able to track him down through that route.

I have heard of being able to petition the judge to lift restrictions after you have had your permit for a while. I may try this in a year or so and see what happens. Cant hurt to try can it???
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:46 PM
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Dooman, get involved in local elections. We(gun owners, and my club in particular) did so in Putnam County, we were instrumental in electing a County judge who promised to "follow the letter of the law". He delivered on his promise, and in fact, the other issueing judge declined to handle pistol licenses anymore and handed all duties off to the gun-friendly judge.
Having said that, we still need to be vigilant. This judge may "climb the ladder" in the future and go for Supreme Court judgeship, then we'll need to make sure we maintain what we fought for.
It all starts locally.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:53 PM
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You are absolutely right Ladder13, couldnt agree more. I dont do what you might call "official" volunteer work with elections, but i do talk to alot of friends and family about issues and candidates. In the past i have pursuaded a few people to get out and vote when they hadnt done so in the past. There are ALOT of descent reasonable people out there who dont like the way things are going that dont vote because they feel that their vote means nothing. Its really sad. But i digress......

One good aspect about our county judge who issues permits, if you have no problems with the law in the past, you are all but 100% garanteed to get approved for the permit. At least he has that going for him. And they move it through fairly quickly. I got my approval letter 4 months after turning everything in. Not bad considering our pistol office has by their own admission been VERY busy with new permits lately, (i wonder why!). I have family in other counties where the judge is against citizen ownership of firearms and issues ZERO permits. Now that is a shame and wrong on so many levels!
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