Florida School Board Shooting

[dnonac]

As a CHL instructor, I try and watch videos from events like this so that I can use them for discussion in class. If you haven't seen it, search for Florida School Board Shooting and you'll find it. It happened yesterday and the video is about 6 minutes long.

I noticed many things in the video (other than the gunman) that disturbed me to no end. Two things immediately popped out at me and the actions of some of the people in the room present a great opportunity for discussion with your loved ones in case they ever find themselves in a situation like this.

1 - When the gunman first shows the weapon and it appeared he wasn't going to shoot immediately, most of the people in the audience left the room. What disturbed me most was that at least 2 or 3 ladies delayed their departure..........to pack up their belongings; purses, backpacks, notebooks. One woman actually left and re-entered the room along the far wall and walked directly toward the gunman asking to retrieve her purse!
Good grief folks. Get out of their as fast as you think you can.

2 - A woman that left, re-entered directly behind the gunman and tried to knock the gun from his hand with her purse. While I certainly commend her extreme bravery, she is very very lucky that this guy didn't shoot her down. Later on at a press conference, she admitted that her 3 daughters had asked her "what were you thinking?". I agree.
Someone commented that if they were ever in combat, they'd like to have that woman in the foxhole with them. True...but with a lot more training first.

I also commend the school superintendant for his attempts to communicate and talk to the gunman. He is a brave man and IMHO showed extreme courage in a very difficult situation.

So....I think this video presents a good opportunity talk with your wives, sons, daughters, husbands....and remind them to be a good witness and get out of there.

It also presents a good opportunity to discuss getting that license and being prepared at every opportunity to defend yourself. A man with a gun threatened to kill lots of people, and another man with a gun stopped him. Thank god for him!

[38-44HD45]

My son (a CHL-holder) and one of his friends, also a CHL holder, both of whom are my students, sent me video clips of this. Here were my comments in reply, redacted to be more family-friendly and PC:


1. The woman with the purse was not very smart, but was pretty damn brave. I was surprised he didn't shoot her. Evidently, she'd watched too much TV and thought it was easy to knock a weapon out of an assailant's hand. Wrong.

2. Even one armed member of the board could have easily shot him and solved the problem quickly. The disturbed fellow was not paying attention most of the time, and couldn't shoot.

3. The school board chairman was pretty damn cool, as was the rest of the board. It remains to be seen what the eventual "corporate" response will be, but while it was happening, I have trouble faulting the guys on the board for anything other than not being armed.

4. At least the 400+ pound woman knew enough to get out of the way, although, she'd have made good cover for someone else...

[feralmerril]

I need to see that 6 minute video you are talking about. The one on the news was about 30 secounds. Hope someone can dig it up for us. Another interesting one is that guy who robbed over a million in big chips at the bilagio cassino!

[dnonac]

Originally Posted by feralmerril

I need to see that 6 minute video you are talking about. The one on the news was about 30 secounds. Hope someone can dig it up for us. Another interesting one is that guy who robbed over a million in big chips at the bilagio cassino!

I agree with your points as well. I just found it amazing that women were taking the time to collect their belongings before getting to safety.

Go to YouTube and search for "Florida School Board Shooting". You'll find it there....at least until someone decides it shouldn't be shown. Lots of interesting stuff to be gained by watching it.

[clipper1]

Well, she may have been wrong, but the woman wielding the purse had more cajones than the men in the room! While she had the man totally distracted why didn't one of the men do something? They were all sitting there looking like they were watching a TV show!!!!!!!
Just my observation.........

gail

[Gamecock]

I really don't want to watch the video.

Did the shooter hurt anyone? Was he apprehended?

Joe

[kennyb]

Originally Posted by clipper1

Well, she may have been wrong, but the woman wielding the purse had more cajones than the men in the room! While she had the man totally distracted why didn't one of the men do something? They were all sitting there looking like they were watching a TV show!!!!!!!
Just my observation.........

gail

the problem with your observation is her "cajones"could have gotten her or someone else killed....

[dnonac]

Originally Posted by Gamecock

I really don't want to watch the video.

Did the shooter hurt anyone? Was he apprehended?

Joe

I should have mentioned this at first. The gunman fired several rounds at close distance and missed everyone!

A guard then shot the gunman twice at which point he fell to the floor. The video shows the gunman falling but does not show him taking his own life. The gunman was the only one shot.

[bitstream]

When I watched the couple of minutes of it shown on CNN, I was thinking how bad an idea it is here in Georgia that licensed holders can't carry in government buildings and meetings along with schools. I suspect that this would qualify.

Clearly the shooter was not allowed to legally own a gun; he had been convicted (and served in jail) of violence towards his wife (not sure if same one he was upset over loosing her job or a previous one), so he definitely didn't carry that gun legally. Had one person present been legally armed, this would have ended a lot sooner.

Also, a few sources report the weapon he was carrying was a Smith and Wesson 9mm...? I didn't get a good look at it, but was it an M&P (compact?) or maybe an SD9?

[jframe]

Originally Posted by Gamecock

I really don't want to watch the video.

Did the shooter hurt anyone? Was he apprehended?

Joe

The shooter did the taxpayers a favor, and ended his own life, thus avoiding a trial in which he would have probably been found criminally insane. Then, we the people would have gotten to foot the bill for all his expenses for the rest of his life.

[Gamecock]

I love a story that ends well.

Joe

[ENGINE18]

So true, Gamecock!

[Lost Lake]

I'd like to know the guns involved....

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Lost Lake

I'd like to know the guns involved....

The deceased's gun looked like a Glock of some kind.

[oldman45]

Most school board meetings take place on school property, maybe not a "school" in the strcictest sense but certain school property and would likely fall under the no firearm zone.

The guard (former police officer) could have taken the guy out long before he did. I understand waiting for backup and appreciate the idea but taking the person out at first chance could have prevented someone else being injured or killed.

As we have seen so often, laws only apply to the law abiding. We create havens for the criminal in having no firearm zones. They are safe from harm until a good guy shows up with a gun.

[flgolfer29]

I live in Panama City and have met Mike Jones (chief of police for the Bay District Schools Department of Security and Police) personally.

Mike Jones is the gentlemen that shot the gunman and is considered, in my opinion, a hero.

Mike Jones retired from a local law enforcement agency several years ago, I don't recall which department. He has been serving a role as 'Salvage Santa' for 20 or more years. As Salvage Santa he takes in donated bicycles and refurbishes them and provides them to needy children in the surrounding area.

I would like to give a big shout out to him, "Thanks Mike"!

[Damn Yankee]

It was reported on the news tonight that the shooters weapon was Smith&Wesson 9MM.

[roundgunner]

Originally Posted by oldman45

Most school board meetings take place on school property, maybe not a "school" in the strcictest sense but certain school property and would likely fall under the no firearm zone.

The guard (former police officer) could have taken the guy out long before he did. I understand waiting for backup and appreciate the idea but taking the person out at first chance could have prevented someone else being injured or killed.

As we have seen so often, laws only apply to the law abiding. We create havens for the criminal in having no firearm zones. They are safe from harm until a good guy shows up with a gun.

[feralmerril]

I am glad the shooter missed, but at that distance as a old copenhagen dipper, I could have spit in their eyes and not missed! Is there a chance this guy missed on purpose, and then changed course when shot by the guard? Not complaining as it turned out right, but just wondering-----I doubt there is a person on this site that could have missed like he did!

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by feralmerril

I am glad the shooter missed, but at that distance as a old copenhagen dipper, I could have spit in their eyes and not missed! Is there a chance this guy missed on purpose, and then changed course when shot by the guard? Not complaining as it turned out right, but just wondering-----I doubt there is a person on this site that could have missed like he did!

Had that discussion with a lawyer friend this afternoon. Sure looked like "suicide by cop" to both of us.

The REAL question is, "How does a school teacher actually get FIRED???"

In NYC or Chicago, it'd be hard to fire Eileen Wuornos or Karla Homolka.

In Florida, do they actually FIRE bad teachers?

[oldman45]

Originally Posted by cmort666

Had that discussion with a lawyer friend this afternoon. Sure looked like "suicide by cop" to both of us.

The REAL question is, "How does a school teacher actually get FIRED???"

In NYC or Chicago, it'd be hard to fire Eileen Wuornos or Karla Homolka.

In Florida, do they actually FIRE bad teachers?

Could not have been suicide by cop since he killed himself.

I keep thinking about how many police shootings have taken place at distances of less than 20 feet without either side hitting anyone. This guy may not have been a gun person.

[palmetto99]

I watched one of the videos this morning. The purse lady was brave, stupid and ill prepared, but brave and trying to save the lives of her friends. As far as the hand gun used by the nut job, I think it's a German made .22 that looks pretty close to a Glock 19. But, it has an external hammer.

[feralmerril]

They said the security guard shot him, I think twice. After he was knocked down by the guards shots, (which the guard wasnt on camera), he shot the guards direction a couple of shots then offed himself. I would bet he missed the school board guys on purpose. He shot at least two sitting school board members at what, 8 to 11 feet? Worlds worst shot if he was serious about hitting them!

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by oldman45

Could not have been suicide by cop since he killed himself.

Suicide by cop was probably the INTENT.

However when he was wounded in the leg by the guard, he probably feared that he might be taken alive, which apparently it was his stated intention to avoid.

[40cal]

Originally Posted by jframe

The shooter did the taxpayers a favor, and ended his own life, thus avoiding a trial in which he would have probably been found criminally insane. Then, we the people would have gotten to foot the bill for all his expenses for the rest of his life.

Very true, just look at the Fort Hood shoting, we have to take care of that jackhole for the rest of his life.

That woman and her purse attack was very brave/Stupid, I think she has seen way to many TV shows.

That armed guard really should have been more agresive, IMO.

[nostraDONus]

I believe he missed on purpose. The first shot at the school board chairman missed from 8 feet. The second shot was at the floor. His third towards the bottom of a desk. The last string of shots while lying on the floor, before he capped himself, appeared to be random towards the ceiling in the back of the room. When he let the woman leave that pursed him it might be an indication that he didn't intend to kill anyone but himself. However, the brave people staring him in the face with a gun pointed at them should be commended.

[Out West]

Reportedly the gunman fired 12 shots. But, what horribly inaccurate shots! I also read or heard that is was a S&W semi auto. Either the guy was drunk or he had a Sigma with a 19# trigger. Otherwise I can't see him missing from that range.

PS: saw an interview with the gunman's wife. She explained that her husband was only trying to stop people from dumping on her. In other words, he was a good man. Crazy.

Out
West

[feralmerril]

I now totaly belive he didnt want to kill anyone initialy on that board after thinking about it and rewatching the video. Did you notice his left hand in his pocket and casualy aiming and missing at 8 feet? I am in no way defending this guy, just pointing out the obvious. I wonder what possessed this guy?

[Gamecock]

I'm thinking he had a Sig Mosquito. The most God awful
trigger ever devised by man.

I've seen some of the video. Fox news showing it over and
over. Guard must have had a 9mm, cause it took several
shots to get him down (3 total). First shot just seemed to
annoy the shooter.

Joe

[bitstream]

Originally Posted by Out West

Reportedly the gunman fired 12 shots. But, what horribly inaccurate shots! I also read or heard that is was a S&W semi auto. Either the guy was drunk or he had a Sigma with a 19# trigger. Otherwise I can't see him missing from that range.


Out
West

Nope, definitely not a Sigma. In the video you can clearly see it has a hammer; the first shot is in double action, the slide locks the hammer back into single action. The man then shoots a shot into the floor in single action (perhaps the much lighter pull caught him by surprise?). At any rate, the Sigma is a striker fired weapon; no hammer.

[oldman45]

Something to think about here.

Just suppose he wanted the men in the room to fear him. His shooting and missing will cause extreme fear in their minds. Make them sweat for a while.

Maybe he was playing with their heads until a later time when he would shoot and hit them.

The fact he had a BOX of bullets meant he intended to reload the magazine at some point in time. It all makes me think he was going to be spending a long time in that room.

[S. Hammer]

When I see that woman trying to knock the gun out of the guy's hand with her purse all I can think of is Ruth Buzzi from Laugh In.

[jimmyj]

HOLY COW!!
I am SHOCK!
Didn't the shooter observe the sign "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED"?

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by Gamecock

I'm thinking he had a Sig Mosquito. The most God awful
trigger ever devised by man.

I've seen some of the video. Fox news showing it over and
over. Guard must have had a 9mm, cause it took several
shots to get him down (3 total). First shot just seemed to
annoy the shooter.

Joe

Florida Security Guards are alowed .38 Revolvers or 9mm Autos per State law.

[bitstream]

New information: On CBS this Morning, Harry Smith was interviewing a district official. They said that there had been an ROTC unit there at the beginning of the meeting to post the colors. They had 2 ceremonial rifles with them. The guy stopped the kids as he was coming in to strike up a conversation and ask them about the rifles, if they were real, had ammo, etc... Obviously, they are ROTC rifles and inop, but it was obvious, as Harry Smith noted and the official agreed, that the guy was trying to make sure he had the only gun there.

This is exactly why most of us complain that the exclusion zone laws only disarm law abiding CCW citizens; the criminals/crazies do not abide by such laws. I presume Florida and/or Federal law in this case made carrying at that meeting illegal for the people gathered there. That gave this guy a guaranteed group of defenseless people he could act upon. The fact that he stopped to question the ROTC students and ensure their rifles were not a threat show that he was concerned about anyone stopping him. He wanted to be sure he was the only one with a gun.

[Gamecock]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

Florida Security Guards are alowed .38 Revolvers or 9mm Autos per State law.

I was suggesting that the Michael Moore impersonator had
the Mosquito, as an explaination as to why he missed.

Joe

[Gamecock]

Originally Posted by bitstream

New information: On CBS this Morning, Harry Smith was interviewing a district official. They said that there had been an ROTC unit there at the beginning of the meeting to post the colors. They had 2 ceremonial rifles with them. The guy stopped the kids as he was coming in to strike up a conversation and ask them about the rifles, if they were real, had ammo, etc... Obviously, they are ROTC rifles and inop, but it was obvious, as Harry Smith noted and the official agreed, that the guy was trying to make sure he had the only gun there.

This is exactly why most of us complain that the exclusion zone laws only disarm law abiding CCW citizens; the criminals/crazies do not abide by such laws. I presume Florida and/or Federal law in this case made carrying at that meeting illegal for the people gathered there. That gave this guy a guaranteed group of defenseless people he could act upon. The fact that he stopped to question the ROTC students and ensure their rifles were not a threat show that he was concerned about anyone stopping him. He wanted to be sure he was the only one with a gun.

Too bad he didn't ask the guard about his gun.

Joe

[jj2am44]

Originally Posted by kennyb

the problem with your observation is her "cajones"could have gotten her or someone else killed....

+1

All that had to happen was for that gun to go off when she hit his arm.

[kennyb]

Originally Posted by Out West

Reportedly the gunman fired 12 shots. But, what horribly inaccurate shots! I also read or heard that is was a S&W semi auto. Either the guy was drunk or he had a Sigma with a 19# trigger. Otherwise I can't see him missing from that range.

PS: saw an interview with the gunman's wife. She explained that her husband was only trying to stop people from dumping on her. In other words, he was a good man. Crazy.

Out
West

shooters missing at that range are very commonplace...even trained,excellent shots....this happens over and over...

[feralmerril]

Just curious. How could things have gone "better" had she not?

[flgolfer29]

Originally Posted by feralmerril

Just curious. How could things have gone "better" had she not?

Maybe, the gunman might have been less agitated had Ms. Littleton not hit him with her purse, and possibly the gunman might never have started firing (?) just saying...

[feralmerril]

Guess we will never know in this lifetime. However once the ball opened it ended as well as anyone could hope for. (Except for the shooter and his loved ones.)
I still dont buy that he rightously "missed" those first two guys on the board as he looked like a old time bullseye shooter with his left hand in his pocket takeing aim! I dont think he planned on leaveing alive either.
On the other hand he might have figured or hoped to cause a ruckus, scare the board, then have a long standoff to make his point. Que sab?
I sure wouldnt fault the lady with the purse. (Unless I was her husband). She had every oppurtuneity to just walk off down the hall out of harms way! Like she said, the guys were lined up "Like birds on a wire".
My mother was like that. Back around 1953 she ran after a guy she caught peeking in her bedroom window. It turned out to be Ed Gein!

[clipper1]

In behindsight, S.Hammer, she did remind of Ruth Buzzi LOL.
If a person were to get hit by most purses that women carry I suspect the damage could be somewhat severe. However, I still say that she at least did 'something' instead of running. I only wish her aim would have been better, and stronger.
Just an opine here, and I do not wish to argue. Everyone has made some valid points. I am happy it had a good ending for the intended victims.

gail

[Martya]

You just know this will be ANOTHER call to restrict firearms.

See??? See the damage they do??? See how horrible they are??? See why we want to get rid of guns????

Oy!

[feralmerril]

Yes martya, thats always a given. But along with that its just as much ammo for us as a example why we need to be armed too. If that lady that hit him with the purse had a gun in it, I bet she would have used it on him!
Freedom is something that we never can quit fighting for. Some devils will be fighting us for it untill the secound comeing. Thats a given too!

[m1gunner]

On an interview this morning, the security guard said he went to his car and got a bigger gun and his vest before he engaged the shooter.

If that was the result of his "big gun", I wouldn't want to see what the 9mm would have done.

A 380?(reference to another thread) Do not think it would have done much in this situation, unless the bag lady stuck it in his ear and pulled the trigger.

[jimmyj]

As to the purse weight question: I am going to start carrying a hammer in mine.

[bk43]

Originally Posted by flgolfer29

Mike Jones is the gentlemen that shot the gunman and is considered, in my opinion, a hero.

It looked to me, although not 100% clear, that the gunman was shot low. Makes you think the guard was aware of the board and kept them out of his line of fire. If so that's really impressive situation awareness in an emergency. He stopped the bad guy and kept innocents safe.

Hats off to the guard!

Bob

[flgolfer29]

Originally Posted by bk43

It looked to me, although not 100% clear, that the gunman was shot low. Makes you think the guard was aware of the board and kept them out of his line of fire. If so that's really impressive situation awareness in an emergency. He stopped the bad guy and kept innocents safe.

Hats off to the guard!

Bob

Mike Jones held a press conference yesterday, a very humble man, and he stated that he hit the gunman 3 times center mass. See the link below for his press conference. I couldn't find the network version of the conference, but someone in the audience recorded this version.
YouTube - Mike Jones Press Conference

[justsumstuff]

When I look at that video, I see Cho (VA Tech) walking down the desks & systematically shooting people, as they described on the news. Also, the college student that decapitated another student at VA Tech, because no one had a way to stop him, except the cop that showed up minutes later. He had enough time to decapitate her. Here in VA, anything school related, no concealed carry, whether it is on school property or not.
The guard is being hailed as a hero. If he had been another Cho, how many would have been killed before the guard figured out what was going on (he was off duty, but had his weapon) and entered the room? And anti-gunners keep telling us that citizens are just as safe without a gun.