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  #1  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:19 AM
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Default How do I properly OPEN CARRY in Ohio?

So I dont have my CCW yet and I would love to be able to carry. I have been reading about open carry laws in Ohio but there is a lot of contradicting stuff on the net...

From what I have read it seems I can legally open carry a loaded weapon in public and unloaded while in the car. Does this sound right?

If someone could tell me what I need to know about this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Dustin

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:44 AM
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Well you can try.

But I am willing to bet that if you strap a loaded 9" .44 Magnum to your hip and start sauntering down main street Johnny Funwrecker will be on you in a heartbeat. First they'll think you're nuts, then when you cry Second Amendment they'll say you are disturbing the peace and cannot carry a weapon in public if it disturbs those around you. I can see their point.

Best to keep it in your pocket. License or not, if you need it you'll have it. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six they say.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:48 AM
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If somebody sees it, then you are openly carrying.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:55 AM
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If the law allows you can carry in plain sight; but with all the cell phones calling 911, expect some interesting discussions with the local LEOs. KY has a law which prevents local govmts. from banning what the state makes legal. However, I do not think open carry in most cities and towns would be worth the hassle. CCW with out a permit might cause you to lose the right to get one, if you get caught. Justified self-defense would probably not protect you from a weapons charge. JMHO
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:22 AM
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That is what I figured. Its crazy we can be punished for nothing...
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:24 PM
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Dustin, just because it may be "legal" to open carry in OH, doesn't mean that it's the sensible thing to do. Unless you are a LEO or work in (armed) security, IMHO, the "negatives"/disadvantages (of open carry) far outweigh the "positives". Especially now, in the wake of the Tucson massacre, the public will be highly sensitized to the sight of a gun.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:53 PM
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What you are looking for is here:
OpenCarry.org - State Information For Ohio

Opencarry.org has info for all states in the the Union concerning open carry. They also do a good job listing the statutes so that you can read them for yourself if you so choose.

Do not let the naysayers get you down, there is nothing wrong with Open Carry. There is no "tactical disadvantage" and the police harass licensed people who carry concealed as well. As for "disorderly conduct" or "disturbing the peace" (which usually means that the police do not like you and cannot charge you with anything else) read your local statutes concerning them. There is very specific language for those types of crimes and openly carrying a firearm (when legal) is neither of those offenses.

I open carry sometimes, and conceal most of the time. I fully support open carry as there is no need to hide our firearms all of the time. Inside of the firearm enthusiast community there are many many people who are adamantly against open carry, just like there are people that do not care for "assault weapons" yet cherish their "deer rifles." This kind of splintering is foolish and unexamined. Carry openly if you wish, and be confident. (after spending time reading the law and knowing what you can and cannot do)

In closing, never surrender your fifth amendment right to keep your mouth shut when being questioned by the police. For a lecture on that topic, watch this video here:
YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1

Remember, police can ask you anything they want and you do not have to answer any of it. If you refuse to answer their questions, you will be better off for it.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
Well you can try.

But I am willing to bet that if you strap a loaded 9" .44 Magnum to your hip and start sauntering down main street Johnny Funwrecker will be on you in a heartbeat. First they'll think you're nuts, then when you cry Second Amendment they'll say you are disturbing the peace and cannot carry a weapon in public if it disturbs those around you. I can see their point.

Best to keep it in your pocket. License or not, if you need it you'll have it. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six they say.
It doesn't matter what law enforcement thinks. it's legal, PERIOD. Carry a voice recorder if you're concerned about improper law enforcement contacts.

You've advised the OP to commit a crime by carrying concealed without a CHL. To the best of my knowledge, that violates the terms of service here.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:55 PM
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I'd say you're gonna have some fun if you try,I've done it in the backwoods of WV and didn't get any hassle-but I was out in the country so didn't expect any problems.

In town I just got my CCW and don't give it a second thought,much easier on a person that way
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:59 PM
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Even though it may sound like I'm one of the "naysayers (trying to) get you down", all I'm trying to do is provide a pragmatic point of view to the open carry topic. Also, I'm not making any judgements about whether it is "right or wrong" to open carry. As long as it's legal, go ahead and carry open if you want. But be prepared to suffer the potential consequences even if you think/know you're "right".

Also, Steve's (unsupported) statement about police "harass(ing) licensed people who carry concealed as well" just doesn't hold water for me. According to his "logic", since the police are "harrasing" those who ccw, this should be further justification/reason to carry openly. Maybe if you ask Steve when and where he open carries, and why he CCW's "most of the time", this may provide more insight for you decide whether you want to open carry.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W-M&P9 View Post
So I dont have my CCW yet and I would love to be able to carry. I have been reading about open carry laws in Ohio but there is a lot of contradicting stuff on the net.
Visit Ohioans for Concealed Carry, Open Carry Forum and get all of your questions answered.
  1. In general, you may open carry anywhere where it would be legal to carry concealed. If there are exceptions, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
  2. Do NOT carry in a vehicle. You need a CHL.
  3. Do NOT carry in a flap holster. There's too much ambiguity about whether that's "concealment".
  4. Don't worry about local laws. There AREN'T any local gun laws in Ohio. That was just backed up by the Ohio Supreme Court when it slapped Cleveland down over it's unlawful registration requirement and "assault weapon" ban.
  5. Carry and use a voice recorder in all law enforcement contacts. Ohio is a one party consent state for recording. As long as you're a party to the conversation, you have the right to record. I DON'T open carry and still carry a voice recorder.
If I'm not mistaken, several people are planning open carry events in the near future.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:23 PM
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CMORT666 has pegged it pretty close. It was police harassment of open carriers that went a long way towards getting CCW passed in Ohio. I'd encourage you to get your CCW because the whole automobile thing is still illogical in Ohio.

I normally CCW but occasionally OC. Some people recommend that you practice OC in someplace like Wally World. It's easy to blend into a crowd there. I suspect that for new open carriers what initially attracts police attention is the fact that they seem nervous. Then they see that you are carrying a firearm. For even some of the experienced, gun savvy police officers here those two factors combined are likely to peak their interest.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by walnutred View Post
CMORT666 has pegged it pretty close. It was police harassment of open carriers that went a long way towards getting CCW passed in Ohio.
Actually, it's MUCH more INTERESTING than that!

The antis, including Voinovich and the OSHP fought legal concealed carry tooth and nail. Then came an Ohio Supreme Court decision (as I recall) that said that there was no need for concealed carry, because OPEN carry was protected by the Ohio Constitution. To the horror of anti-concealed carry fanatics who pushed this line of "reasoning", people actually began carrying openly. Rather than have pretty much anybody open carry WITHOUT any kind of credential, concealed carry was passed, despite the opposition of the OSHP. But the decision remains, reinforced by interpretation of the Attorney General's office.

The anti-gunners in the Republican AND Democrat parties shot themselves in BOTH feet. The gun control movement in Ohio has been circling the bowl ever since.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:18 PM
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Dustin...just get the permit. Open carry is still an option afterwards.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:25 PM
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Dustin...just get the permit. Open carry is still an option afterwards.
The advantage of open carrying WITH a CHL is that you never have to worry about using a military flap holster, or your shirt momentarily covering the butt of your gun, etc.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:31 PM
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It doesn't matter what law enforcement thinks. it's legal, PERIOD. Carry a voice recorder if you're concerned about improper law enforcement contacts.

You've advised the OP to commit a crime by carrying concealed without a CHL. To the best of my knowledge, that violates the terms of service here.
Wow Ouch!

I don't want anyone to break the law, but if the fella is determined to carry a weapon I think he'll end up in the back of a squad car if he displays it. But hey, everyone can make their own decision.

This is common sense folks. While it may be LEGAL for you to run through WalMart with an AK47 in your hands, I guarantee you if you do there will be mass screaming and running, you may find a few people that have CCW's on them because they may bring them out, and I think there will be a swat team waiting outside for you.

While I'd LOVE to carry a weapon in Wisconsin the only time I ever have is while hunting. I carry a .357 on my hip and try ( ) to shoot deer with it. But I sure don't go walking in the restaurant at lunch time with it still on me!

And yes it's legal for you to stand up and shout whatever you would like to, but it would be very ILLEGAL to yell FIRE! in a crowded theater.

So my stance is this: Exposed weapons look good on uniformed people. The public understands that the weapon is part of their job, and they wear it to conduct their job. Police, security, even a hunter.... they all need a weapon handy to do their work. The guy wearing flip flops and Bermuda shorts walking into the bank carrying a semi-auto AR15 is gonna get cuffed and stuffed. That's the way it is. Legal open carry? Only if it doesn't scare and upset people.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:43 PM
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I don't want anyone to break the law, but if the fella is determined to carry a weapon I think he'll end up in the back of a squad car if he displays it. But hey, everyone can make their own decision.
In this state, open carry is legal, PERIOD. It's not reasonable articulable suspicion or probable cause of ANYTHING.

Nobody has to like the law, merely obey it. That goes equally for citizens and LEOs.

Nobody's gotten "shot" for open carrying. The person doing the shooting is going to, at best, do prison time.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:45 PM
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I guess I misunderstood the original post Lost Lake. I took it that the poster was talking about carrying a handgun, not a AR or AK. Guess I jumped to conclusions. Thanks for putting me straight.

Fact is though most people are not observant enough to notice a holster unless it is flashy, and well trained police officers know bad guys almost never use a holster anyway.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:31 PM
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I have had a CCW in Iowa for more than 25 years. We are apparently going to be an open carry state with the new shall issue law, at least that's what I've read. I have carried openly when working uniformed security and I have to admit, I was always very cautious. I didn't have a snatch proof security holster, so I was always cognizant of anyone on my strong side. I think this is one area people don't consider when contemplating open carry. The idiot at the grocery store in line behind you who wants to teach you a lesson. Is your training and self awareness good enough to deal with that, or better yet, prevent it? Most likely not for most people. Then there are the anti-gun folks who want to make points for their side. They could say you were acting in a threatening manner. At the very least you are going to be closely questioned by law enforcement.
I know the arguments about open carry and the fact it is a right in some areas. I think my quarter century carrying a gun gives me at least a modicum of credibility. My view is it is not a real good idea.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:53 PM
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I have had a CCW in Iowa for more than 25 years. We are apparently going to be an open carry state with the new shall issue law, at least that's what I've read. I have carried openly when working uniformed security and I have to admit, I was always very cautious. I didn't have a snatch proof security holster, so I was always cognizant of anyone on my strong side. I think this is one area people don't consider when contemplating open carry. The idiot at the grocery store in line behind you who wants to teach you a lesson. Is your training and self awareness good enough to deal with that, or better yet, prevent it? Most likely not for most people. Then there are the anti-gun folks who want to make points for their side. They could say you were acting in a threatening manner. At the very least you are going to be closely questioned by law enforcement.
I know the arguments about open carry and the fact it is a right in some areas. I think my quarter century carrying a gun gives me at least a modicum of credibility. My view is it is not a real good idea.
Actually, I see open carry advocates discussing retention holsters and retention techniques all the time. I would guess that you haven't been a party to these sorts of discussions.

Trying to snatch somebody's gun is assault. You have every legal right to take the appropriate steps to retain possession of it. If somebody gets hurt in the process, shame on them.

I don't carry openly. I don't see anything wrong with it, and don't criticize anyone for doing so. Most of the more vehement criticisms of open carry I've seen have been virtually indistinguishable from those I've gotten for carrying concealed.

Do whatever you like that's legal.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:34 PM
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I believe open carry is legal in the leftist state of Wisconsin also. But I sure wouldn't try it. I have talked with several chief's of police and my relatives that are cops and the universal agreement is ------- They will take away your weapon and if you resist, they will take you away too.

Now good citizens are always willing to prove they are right, and some WANT to be arrested so they can have there day in court. If that is what you want then give it a try!

No different than staging a sit-in to protest something and the cops come and haul everyone away. Sure they were completely legal, but they were causing a disturbance.

And that is the key! If you want to openly carry a gun on a deserted island you'll have no trouble at all. Or walk around the streets at night and stay in the shadows where nobody sees you. But I'll bet a dollar if you go parading down main street you are going to be stopped by the cops. If that is okay with you, then cool.

Good luck! I know I wish some people weren't so much against concealed carry, and maybe you can help teach them this way.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:44 PM
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I believe open carry is legal in the leftist state of Wisconsin also. But I sure wouldn't try it. I have talked with several chief's of police and my relatives that are cops and the universal agreement is ------- They will take away your weapon and if you resist, they will take you away too.
And how's that working out for them?

Lawsuits for Illegal Arrests in Wisconsin

You can't fix stupid but you CAN make it expensive.

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Old 01-12-2011, 03:54 AM
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I believe open carry is legal in the leftist state of Wisconsin also. But I sure wouldn't try it. I have talked with several chief's of police and my relatives that are cops and the universal agreement is ------- They will take away your weapon and if you resist, they will take you away too.
Yes, some police departments in Ohio tried that too. In the last revision of our CCW laws a provision was put into effect that firearms MUST be returned and the police department reimburses legal expenses. Those problem departments (who were VERY few in number) may not understand the law but they seem to understand accounting.

Allegedly even the FOP is advising officers here to leave legal OCers alone. Something about the personal liability a LEO can face if they are convicted of using the badge to enforce laws that do not exist.

Again, I want to point out that when we were going through this transition there were very few police departments that seemed to be arbitrarily interpreting laws. After a few individuals were willing to go to court, and won, there does not seem to be much of an issue with OC.

In fact it was someone willing to take an inducing panic charge to the Ohio Supreme Court that really brought to the light the need for CCW permits in Ohio. The argument was made that Ohio did not need CCW because open carry was legal. An individual open carried and was charged with inducing panic. When it went to court the LEO stated that their policy was to always charge an OCer with inducing panic. Obviously sometimes even Judges can recognize that if a person is always charged with a crime while engaging in a legal activity there is a real problem.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:51 AM
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And how's that working out for them?

Lawsuits for Illegal Arrests in Wisconsin

You can't fix stupid but you CAN make it expensive.
Expensive for who? The poor sap that is legally open-carrying that's who. The OC activists may take on a case or two a year, but what about all the others? Hire yourself an attorney and pay a fortune to prove you're right. Is it worth it? Look at some of these cases in the article you posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by from the article
The conflicts arise because of the state constitution's provision for carrying gun for "any" lawful purpose and some police departments to take a dim view of citizens with weapons, he said.

The arrest of the woman leaving church is an example of some attitudes, he said.

"As open-carry is perfectly legal in Wisconsin and the officers were aware she (a Wisconsin Carry member) had threatened no one and caused no disturbance, the officers had no reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) which the law requires, to stop and detain our member against her will. In addition, by drawing their guns on a law-abiding citizen who had done nothing wrong, the officers used an unlawful threat of deadly force during their detainment of our member. The police proceeded to, without reasonable suspicion or probable cause that any crime had occurred, conduct an illegal and unconstitutional search of our member's person and car. Our member was then unlawfully arrested and taken to the Brookfield Police Department for processing," he explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by another
The organization also is challenging the state's ban on open carry of weapons within 1,000 feet of a school, because that distance includes group members' private residences, and easily could trap someone who is carrying legally but doesn't know a school is in the adjacent block.

Clark told WND one dispute arose when a man was carrying and was 984 feet from a school. He was arrested and while charges later were dropped he did spend 17 days in jail awaiting a hearing before a judge.
This poor guy sat IN JAIL for 17 days!!!! You want to show the cops how right you are by SITTING IN JAIL? Oh sure the law is that you can carry openly.... but I'm not sitting in jail to prove it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Or this
Further, Clark said, at least two other cases already are pending, including one over the "Madison Five," who were carrying while they were enjoying a dinner out one evening. A woman called police, and after she was told it was a legal activity in the state, declined to pursue it.

Police came anyway and gave the five citations.
So these legal folks got citations. Now are they going to pay a few hundred each or are they going to take off work, go to court and see if they can beat the cop?

If an action is not publicly accepted, even if it is legal, it just can't be done without a lot of turmoil. Like I said, good luck. I think you should carry documentation with you regarding what the attorney general said, some court case histories, and probably talk to the chief of police in the area you are planning to carry. When the calls start coming in that a crazed madman is carrying a gun (and the calls will come in - probably exaggerated that you are waiving it around and threatening people) the police will know what the real situation is and hopefully tell the callers that you are completely in your right to carry a weapon.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:03 AM
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Expensive for who?
For the respondents in the civil suits.

False arrest is a civil tort, with compensatory and punitive damages. And I don't know about Wisconsin, but in Ohio, LEOs are NOT indemnified for punitive damages. Show contempt for the law all you want, but if you do, you do it on your own dime. That of course doesn't confer any immunity on the city and department for their failure to supervise, etc.

In Ohio, by law, if LEOs mess with somebody for legal concealed carry, they and the city are on the hook for the victim's legal fees. And that's COMPLETELY apart from any awards for compensatory or punitive damages. That should count for legal open carry too. I'll have to suggest that for the OFCC's "to do" list for the coming legislative session.

The law is the law. It's as simple as that. When somebody falsely arrests you merely because they don't LIKE a perfectly lawful activity, that's both a crime and a civil tort. You don't discourage bad behavior by giving it the wink and the nod. That's the case with armed robbery and intentional false arrest.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:52 AM
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For the respondents in the civil suits.

False arrest is a civil tort, with compensatory and punitive damages. And I don't know about Wisconsin, but in Ohio, LEOs are NOT indemnified for punitive damages. Show contempt for the law all you want, but if you do, you do it on your own dime. That of course doesn't confer any immunity on the city and department for their failure to supervise, etc.

In Ohio, by law, if LEOs mess with somebody for legal concealed carry, they and the city are on the hook for the victim's legal fees. And that's COMPLETELY apart from any awards for compensatory or punitive damages. That should count for legal open carry too. I'll have to suggest that for the OFCC's "to do" list for the coming legislative session.

The law is the law. It's as simple as that. When somebody falsely arrests you merely because they don't LIKE a perfectly lawful activity, that's both a crime and a civil tort. You don't discourage bad behavior by giving it the wink and the nod. That's the case with armed robbery and intentional false arrest.
That is a good law! At least if you are right you can collect your money back. Don't get me wrong, I applaud the brave individuals willing to push this issue. And when I say good luck I mean it! Please let us know what happens. In fact there should be a sticky or a new area here for problems with the law, or a place to post when you are wrongfully treated.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:55 AM
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That is a good law! At least if you are right you can collect your money back. Don't get me wrong, I applaud the brave individuals willing to push this issue. And when I say good luck I mean it! Please let us know what happens. In fact there should be a sticky or a new area here for problems with the law, or a place to post when you are wrongfully treated.
I just checked. As far as I can see, 9.68 ALREADY covers legal fees for open carriers.

There are also a number of pending suits in Pennsylvania.

People simply won't just passively let crimes and civil torts be committed against them anymore.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:37 PM
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Even if it`s fully legal I suppose it would be like calling up the IRS on a simple question 10 different times and getting 10 different answers depending on who`s answering the phone. Probley when observed 10 different cops would or would not respond 10 different ways. If you take your chances long enough you might look like swiss cheese if fearless fosdick out of little abner spots you!
I know years ago you would be stopped on something like "Makeing assurances of keeping the peace". Like most of us I have been all over the country in close to my 70 years, and I doubt I have seen 10 people not LEO, open carrying in town in my lifetime. I am talking in towns here, NOT out in the country. Even if no one says nothing, I bet all that see`s someone open carrying in town will silently figure you are either some type LEO or half baked!
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:59 PM
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Your probably right Feralmerril. I'm sure more people have seen ME open carrying than I have noticed open carrying and I try and be observant. Frankly I seldom OC as I much prefer CCW. However I'm grateful to those were willing to stand their legal ground in Ohio and get the laws changed and LEOs educated on OC and CCW. It is the Judicial branch that is charged with interpreting laws not the police. When the LEOs start interpreting laws to suit their own whimsy it's an indicator of a serious problem.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:00 PM
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Even if it`s fully legal I suppose it would be like calling up the IRS on a simple question 10 different times and getting 10 different answers depending on who`s answering the phone. Probley when observed 10 different cops would or would not respond 10 different ways. If you take your chances long enough you might look like swiss cheese if fearless fosdick out of little abner spots you!
Given that the subject was open carry in Ohio, it doesn't matter how they respond as long as it conforms to the Ohio Revised Code. That's the ONLY thing that matters.

The police are perfectly free to attempt to engage you in a VOLUNTARY encounter. If you want to VOLUNTARILY converse with them, you're perfectly free to do so. If you don't want to, you don't have to.

This idea of being SHOT for engaging in a lawful activity, PROTECTED BY THE OHIO REVISED CODE, seems like a particularly odd one. That would be manslaughter, AT BEST.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:29 PM
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In the past I personaly knew of at least 3 or 4 incidents in california when I lived there where people were gunned down by LEO for carrying knives and one well known mentaly off youth in lancaster was carrying a garden hoe down the street and was gunned down and killed by a los angles county deputy that he kept walking off on! I wouldnt wanted to have worn a handgun openly on those various officers!
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:45 PM
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In the past I personaly knew of at least 3 or 4 incidents in california when I lived there where people were gunned down by LEO for carrying knives and one well known mentaly off youth in lancaster was carrying a garden hoe down the street and was gunned down and killed by a los angles county deputy that he kept walking off on! I wouldnt wanted to have worn a handgun openly on those various officers!
  1. The subject was open carry in OHIO. I don't live in California. I WOULDN'T live in California.
  2. If cops in California are committing unjustifiable homicides, then you have a problem, not with lawful open carry, but with California LEOs. My suggestion is to address THAT problem, since when lawlessness by LEOs is allowed to go on with impunity, it ALWAYS escalates.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:01 PM
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Since I posted 10 minuets ago I recall two more incidents where LEO killed two different people. In one case the deputy was a friend of mine, and in the other case the dead victim was a friendly guy I casualy knew at work.
First case a deputy friend of mine got a call at a bar out of town a patron at a bar called 9-11 on that another guy in the bar was carrying a gun. This was about in 1970. "Pat" drove up to the bar as the guy was comeing out of the bar with the gun strapped on. Pat got on his knees in the mud as it had been raining and had his gun pointed at him. He ordered the guy to take the gun off, the guy did and as he was throwing it in his truck, pat started to get up, slipped, his gun went off and the bullet struck the guy in the neck, killing him!
Secound case: A transportation driver for lockheed where I was a guard that I knew very well, "Dan" had just BSed with me at the gate when he was leaveing the palmdale plant for the burbank plant. I probley talked to him around 01:00. He lived somewhere in san fernando valley. He put the truck up maybe 02:30 am, and started driveing home. This also was in 1969 to 1973 time frame. The story was some woman or girl had spotted a peeping tom looking at her through a window. She also had a brother present. Police were called and on the lookout. Dan came driveing down the desserted quite street and was stopped, took to the house and the girl called out for ID. She said it WASNT him. They had Dans ID of course and let him go. Right after they let him go it seems the brother said, nope, I think it WAS him! Dan gets home and comes now the LEO again! They took him out and handcuffed him with his hands behind his back. His wife and kids were watching. One of the young hot eager beaver cops wanted dan to get on his knees as I was told. Dan probley was irate by now and maybe off balance trying the cop shoved him I understand with the gun barrel, gun went off killing dan handcuffed in front of his family!! Want more storys? I got em!
Bottom line, do you want to take your chances to prove a point or feed your ego by packing openly when you can conceal??
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:03 PM
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In the past I personaly knew of at least 3 or 4 incidents in california when I lived there where people were gunned down by LEO for carrying knives and one well known mentaly off youth in lancaster was carrying a garden hoe down the street and was gunned down and killed by a los angles county deputy that he kept walking off on! I wouldnt wanted to have worn a handgun openly on those various officers!
That helps explain the pent up frustration which helped contribute to the Rodney King riots. I'd want to riot too in that Feldgendarmerie environment.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:22 PM
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Bottom line, do you want to take your chances to prove a point or feed your ego by packing openly when you can conceal??
Bottom line, if you shouldn't lawfully open carry because a cop just won't like it, should you lawfully carry concealed if a cop doesn't like THAT? How about if they don't like certain political bumper stickers? Displays of religious symbols or garments? Being in a neighborhood, the majority of whose inhabitants are of a different race than your own?

As I said, based on your statements, the problem lies not with concealed OR open carry, but with lawlessness by LEOs in California. How will supinely submitting to this lawlessness make it LESS frequent?

If no citizen ever got prosecuted for armed robbery, do you think armed robbery would become more or less common? EXACTLY the same cost benefit analysis takes place with regard to serious police misconduct.

If police aren't obeying the law, the solution isn't to ignore the law, it's to MAKE the police obey it.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:50 PM
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cmort, I love guns and gun rights. My jobs required me to open carry in uniforms for over 36 years. It`s far from being a novelty for me. On top of that I have the utah cc permit since I retired. I am just pointing out if you legaly concealed carry as opposed to legaly open carrying you wont be so apt to be questioned or shook down where ALL of these accidental killings happen.
Also the incidents that I gave happened with supposedly some of the worlds best trained officers were involved. All of them in that area no doubt see more real action in weeks than some village or county mounties in rual areas do maybe in their careers!
I am not trying to be a smart *** here, but I do have a lots of experiance in life rubbing shoulders with countless leo and ex leo that I mostly worked with and have heard all of their war storys for 40 years.
It isnt a perfect world and never will be. I am just trying to point out a safer way to carry if your going to.
Probley every LEO or ex LEO that reads this has similar storys.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:15 PM
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What's the purpose of open carry in a city? Especially after the incident in AZ. Odds are you will be challenged. Someone will call, that's a guarantee. If John Q. Public calls the local PD, then guess what, they will have to respond. You'll be questioned and since it is legal in Ohio to open carry, the call will be cleared. A waste of everyones time. On the other hand, if you choose to rant to the officer about your rights and basically create a scene, then the outcome could be different. Cops know the law; and many could care less about open carry. It's a pain-in-the-*** call. So, go ahead and legally open carry if it makes you happy. Just get ready for the odd looks and the possible police call. Or, you could get your CC license. Out of sight, out of the public's mind. No one will know. No strange glares and no police involvement.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:24 PM
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Oh, these threads are fun. The op stated he can't cc in Ohio because he doesn't yet have a permit to do so. The only way he can carry legally is to open carry, and it seems people are advising him to conceal or not carry at all.

Fortunately a couple of members have offered sound advise with links to a couple of sites to help the op. Some of those members are even from Ohio just like the op.

Sadly, the good folks of Wisconsin can only open carry at this time so for them it is open carry or unarmed.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:16 PM
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In the last 50 years I wonder how may cases exist where a person who was open carrying a handgun committed a violent crime? Seems that someone who was planning on committing a crime would conceal to avoid attracting attention to themselves.

If there is a tendency among gangbangers and other criminal types to open carry their handguns then LEOs zeroing in on people spotted open carrying is obviously justified. If criminal types typically do NOT open carry then at best there is a training problem.
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:49 PM
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I guess my point is that if you OC, plan on being harassed. I know it's not right, but it is not normal behavior to carry a gun around so people will freak out.

And like the stories I posted and feralmerril backed up with his own accounts, sometimes being hassled isn't just a cruiser stopping by saying "hey that's a sweet gun ya got there buddy, I know it's legal but I had to stop... Have a great day!" No, sometimes it's guns drawn, "Get on the ground!" yelled, itchy trigger fingers of young cops, women swearing you intimidated them with your weapon, car searches, witnesses questioned....

So I applaud your cajones for standing up for your right to carry openly wherever you wish. I just wish you good luck and hope you inform the police BEFORE you do this. It will go a long way toward a smooth afternoon!
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:22 PM
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cmort, I love guns and gun rights.
I love the rule of law. The things you describe don't fit that description.

As I said, if you don't WANT the police to obey the law, then don't make them do so. I guarantee you they won't. And it will only keep escalating. Look at Chicago, Philadelphia and New Orleans. If you're ok with that in your community, that's your choice. It's not mine.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:56 PM
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On the other hand, if you choose to rant to the officer about your rights and basically create a scene, then the outcome could be different.
I don't need to "rant", just know and obey the law. If there's a "different outcome" because of that, it's both a crime and a civil tort.

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Cops know the law
When it comes to firearms law in general, and concealed and open carry in general, that has not been my experience, nor that of a lot of other people. I make sure I know applicable law because I know I CANNOT trust LEOs to do so.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:57 PM
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You just might be dead right. Good luck!
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:13 PM
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You just might be dead right. Good luck!
I might just be "dead right" from doing nothing at all. Turning a blind eye to lawlessness certainly does nothing to make that LESS likely.

If you're genuinely afraid of the police where you live, that's an entirely different problem from mere open carry, and not one that will ever be resolved merely by not open carrying. That's like worrying about a leaky faucet in a hundred story apartment building constructed directly on top of the San Andreas Fault.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:44 PM
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You win. I give up.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:54 PM
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You win. I give up.
LOL!!!!

Feralmerril if there's one thing I have learned at my young and tender age... You can't push a rope.
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:44 PM
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When it comes to firearms law in general, and concealed and open carry in general, that has not been my experience, nor that of a lot of other people. I make sure I know applicable law because I know I CANNOT trust LEOs to do so.
I'm sorry to hear you cannot trust LE in your area. I knew the law and my fellow LEO's knew the law. I never, nor did I ever witness another officer hassle any law abiding gun carrying individual. In fact, the more legal guns in the inner city always helped us control the predator/dirtbag/criminal population.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:54 AM
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This thread is a good example of how some questions and responses can be VERY region specific. The OP was about Ohio open carry and those of us with Ohio carry experience tried to steer the poster in the correct direction, as we saw it.

it is my understanding that in California open carry of a loaded handgun by one of the unwashed masses is illegal, period. So it's logical that someone open carrying a handgun could expect a different response from LEOs in Cali than Ohio. Apparently in other States LEOs are given a much looser hand in deciding which civil rights individuals can exercise. As this seems to be acceptable to the residents of those States who employ the LEOS who are we to judge.

In some States the gun laws are almost incomprehensible to those of use who don't live there. My best friends son-in-law lives in New Jersey. Once when visiting Ohio he decided to purchase a 22 target rifle. To him it was inconceivable that you could walk into a store, lay down your money, fill out a form and walk out with a 22 rifle. To me it was inconceivable that he would have to report that purchase to the local police in New Jersey, but if I understood him correctly that is the case.

So like I said, this is a good example of some questions and answers being very location specific.
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Old 01-14-2011, 08:55 AM
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I'm sorry to hear you cannot trust LE in your area. I knew the law and my fellow LEO's knew the law. I never, nor did I ever witness another officer hassle any law abiding gun carrying individual. In fact, the more legal guns in the inner city always helped us control the predator/dirtbag/criminal population.
Unlike in my home town, I can generally trust the local police not to commit overt crimes. I can't trust them to know the law, especially firearms law. Time after time, I and other people have seen them misstate and misapply what should be VERY clear state law (and that's the ONLY kind of gun law in Ohio, apart from Federal law).

A couple of years ago, I had a Rocky River cop try the nonsense "inducing panic" threat on me when I inadvertently exposed my M1911. I was polite, but refused to be bullied. He in turn became more and more angry and less and less mature. In the end, he apparently called a grownup and was told what the law REALLY was. I followed up with a letter to the Chief about how his officers were threatening people with imaginary offenses (even the AG's office says that pure open carry isn't "inducing panic") and that if they were to act on that ignorance, it would be bad for everybody.

And just as a note, when you OBVIOUSLY don't know the law, bellowing, "I know, I'm a cop!" doesn't gain you one bit of credibility.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:09 AM
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Once in southern california, near palmdale where I used to live I did get hasseled. I had been in a accident and broke my leg and was recovering. I lived on the very edge of town and had put on a colt woodsmen and walked out beyound the city limits a mile or two to excercise my leg.
It was bare brushy dessert without a building in sight. I just carried the gun in case of a rattler. I thought I knew the local laws pretty good.
That part of the dessert did have straight trails laid out for future streets or roads that had never happened. A los angles county deputy was driveing down the road and spotted me walking about a quarter mile off the road down one of those trails. He stopped, turned around and come bouncing down the trail to me. Pulled up and explained that sometimes he drove through the dessert to see if any hot cars were out there stripped. He noticed I was packing and said he could haul me to jail for that. I didnt argue although I thought he was wrong. I didnt argue because he had said "I could" not "I will", and I sensed he wasnt going to if I didnt argue the point. I never was a cop, yet I was a guard in a company that was big as a large town and had/have much similar experiance enforceing rules to hot heads that either didnt agree with the rules or thought they didnt exist. 90% of all trouble can be adverted if you know how to handle yourself. You dont argue with a cop even if you think yourself right! Theres always time to argue later if it go`s farther.
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