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  #51  
Old 01-26-2011, 08:27 PM
coobie coobie is offline
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I carry a beretta 950 jetfire as a bug gun with 35 gr.xtp hornady.Needless to say I am sure it would put a good hurting on ya
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  #52  
Old 01-30-2011, 11:34 PM
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I can't recall if it was Cooper or who that said, "A 25 ACP would do if there was no firearm available"... I'll stick with my 45 and failing that my compact 9 and failing that a 380... and failing that.. I'll stay home....
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  #53  
Old 01-31-2011, 12:17 AM
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That guy who caused a lot of problems in Gaffney, SC used a
.25ACP to perform his dirty work, and he managed to scare the hell out of everyone around here until the police caught up with him. Anything that shoots a bullet by igniting gunpowder should be considered deadly. No firearm is a toy.
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  #54  
Old 02-04-2011, 10:48 AM
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It will always be a better choice than a pointed finger
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Old 02-05-2011, 01:01 PM
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What I always say is "the gun you carry is more effective than the gun you're not carrying". Many people buy a gun that's too karge to easily carry and conceal and then they don't carry it! what good is that? My father is a ".45ACP or nothing" and he's usually not carrying his and makes excuses. I tease him and I always have my Sig P239 in 9mm or my wife's Ruger LCP in .380 with me whenever legally permitted. A mouse gun will work better than no gun at all.
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  #56  
Old 12-25-2014, 11:34 PM
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I carry a baby Browning as my BUG on the ankle.

7 shots of .25 as a "gidoffme" gun should be effective methinks.
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  #57  
Old 12-25-2014, 11:51 PM
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Sure beats begging.
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  #58  
Old 12-26-2014, 10:55 AM
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With the hot loads available today for .22lr (Stingers, Aguila, Velociters, ect.) that can produce the same muzzle energy from a rifle as a .380 pistol, (200+ ft lbs.) I don't consider the .25acp to be very noteworthy. I'd say hands down that the .22lr would be more effective.

However if someone pointed a .25acp pocket pistol at me I'd sure as hell be trying to get away from the muzzle of that thing. It has stopped attacks before, it has killed people quickly. But I don't think it can be depended on to do so.

The biggest thing I feel that makes the .25acp completely irrelevant nowadays is the price and availability. It's simply not worth it.
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  #59  
Old 12-26-2014, 11:10 AM
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I use to carry a Colt Vest pocket when nothing else fit the situation, I have since retired it to the safe and now carry my LCP.
As stated elsewhere,I wouldn't want to chance getting hit with a .25... I don't even want to get hit with a BB gun!
But when nothing else is applicable and you have a .25,,,well I guess it's better than nothing!
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  #60  
Old 12-26-2014, 11:36 AM
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Pretty old thread ....

But I'll offer this ... back about 50 years ago most homicides in my area were committed with .22's and .25's.
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  #61  
Old 12-26-2014, 11:46 AM
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Top coat, top hat,
And I don't worry coz my wallet's fat.
Black shades, white gloves,
Lookin' sharp lookin' for love.
They come runnin' just as fast as they can
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man.

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  #62  
Old 12-26-2014, 12:03 PM
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I take anything with a barrel and a magazine (or cylinder) seriously - especially if it's pointed at me.


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  #63  
Old 12-26-2014, 12:06 PM
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There are rounds like Magsafe and Glaser to name two that are vastly more potent than your run of the mill .25 acp stuff. I have shot some of these and they had some punch in comparison.
After testing to make sure they feed and function, I don't know why one would not want to increase the punch of their "mousegun" to that of at least a rat!
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  #64  
Old 12-26-2014, 12:17 PM
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Well I wouldn't volenteer to get shot with one, etc . And given a binary choice better than harsh words or a derringer. Arguably better than a knife or a big stick.

In addition to the issues of the cal itself , most (by production numbers) were unreliable junk. When someone went into a gunstore , and wanted a gun, any gun, whichever was cheapest , it was a .25 for decades.

Yes, throughout history there has been a legitamite need for a dependable reliable pistol that is really, really small to the carried in very unconventional manner (ie inside a pair of speedo's , inside a cigarette pack). The percentage of people who really needed one was a very small percentage of those who thought they did, but not quite zero.

I briefly carried one as a BUG. Shooting it convinced me to skip lunch until I saved enough for a then state of the art subcompact .380 .

The week that a subcompact .32acp that cost less than a Seecamp came on the market, all .25acp's became funtionally obsolete.
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  #65  
Old 12-26-2014, 01:29 PM
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As popular as .25 auto pistols have been..I imagine lots of people have been shot dead with the caliber. Probably a lot shot and survived too.

Up until the 1990's there were all sorts of .25acp pistols on the market. Probably still a lot of .25 autos in glove compartments, pockets and dresser-drawers around the world. Just a inexpensive handgun for most people who either don't know any better or don't care that the caliber ain't the most powerful cartridge in the world.

I've got a little Bauer .25 and an old Browning 1906 .25 pistol. I've carried them in the past and shot these pistols quite a bit. The tiny pistols work fine..however the guns are too small for me to shoot well with.

The .25 acp has a reputation for being a feeble caliber and it certainly is compared to the bigger acp rounds. Still wouldn't want to get shot with one. The .25 acp will penetrate better than it's reputation would lead you to believe....
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  #66  
Old 12-26-2014, 01:31 PM
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In the right circumstances, a pellet gun can be taken seriously. Is it or a 25ACP the best choice? Probably not but that doesn't mean they can't be deadly.
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  #67  
Old 12-27-2014, 12:22 AM
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I hope 6 shots in the gulliver or taco tube would be effective.

That's what I'm a plannin' on anyway.
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  #68  
Old 12-27-2014, 03:22 AM
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Zombie thread about .25's

I commented on this thread 3 years ago but I'll just say .25 can be effective but modern technology has given us .380's as small as .25 pistols used to be. Except maybe the Baby Browning.

My LCP is lighter and thinner than my .25 Beretta, but I still love that Beretta

I think even a meth head or someone on PCP will lose some of their fight with a .25 to the frontal lobe, throat or genitalia.....
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  #69  
Old 12-27-2014, 03:43 AM
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THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THE .25 ACP TOOK IT'S SHARE OF BAD GUYS OUT, BACK IN THE DAY. IMPROVEMENTS IN SMALL CALIBER AMMO--EVEN THE .22LR, HAVE RELEGATED IT, AND THE WEAPONS THAT FIRE IT, T THE STATUS OF COLLECTIBLES. PERSONALLY, I WOULD NOT CARRY ANYTHING BELOW A .38 SPL. FOR SELF DEFENSE…..
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  #70  
Old 12-27-2014, 04:30 AM
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I just bought a Beretta 950 Jetfire for $145.00. I like the tip up barrel. Perfer center fire pistols. Now to see if Buffalo Bore has any interesting rounds
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  #71  
Old 12-27-2014, 08:59 AM
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A couple of interesting stories some are even on topic... I remember reading in a Guns and Ammo Annual from 1968 (pretty sure) regarding the humble .25 Auto. A man at a party goes to the upstairs of the residence and in a fit of depression shoots himself in the temple with said .25 ACP. And if I remember correctly here "feeling no ill effects, changes his suicidal thoughts and rejoins his fellow partiers." He subsequently died a few hours later.
Jim Cirillo wrote about shooting a bad guy several times in the face with a .38. Suspect goes down like the proverbial ton of bricks. Coroner is called etc etc. Suspect then raises up on his elbows and asks for a tissue to wipe his bloody nose. According to Jim, all fired rounds traced around his skull just under the skin.
And lastly. Local card sharp tries to cheat tough late night card game. Gets caught exercising his chosen profession. Sharpie decides to pull (supposedly) a .38 and fires at card table distance into the other gentleman. Said gentleman retrieves the .38 from the shooter and proceeds to cave in his skull with the empty gun thereby killing him. Story goes on to say the gunshot victim also later died.
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  #72  
Old 12-27-2014, 09:54 AM
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All the comments stating "its better than no gun" seem to miss the point. Guns do not materialize out of thin air, you have to acquire one. Maybe at some time in the past the little 25 like the Baby Browning was the only gun that was truly tiny, but today there are so many really small guns that fire a more effective caliber that I don't see many reasons to own a 25 other than as a collector. My Ruger LCP, with a total of 7 rounds of 380acp ammo is effectively as small as most 25's and certainly more powerful.

I will admit, however, that the very first handgun I ever bought was a Baby Browning, that I bought new in a department store in 1966 for $43. It was my only gun for several years until I traded it away for a 380 which itself was stolen during a home burglary. Fortunately I never had to rely on that 25 for self defense or anything else.
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:35 AM
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One shooting the guy came in the ER with two 25acp bullets stuck in his forehead. He lived another shooting in Akron Ohio a woman shot 5 people with a magazine full from a Raven 25 auto and they all died. Is it there day to die?, only God can answer that.
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  #74  
Old 12-27-2014, 03:50 PM
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I would say that the .25 is viable for self defense. Since most conflicts are close quarters it will do the job.
The pop-pop-pop of the small pistol will certainly make an attacker back away from reflex to the sound. The disadvantage is the small size which makes it difficult for people with large hands. Having the slide recoil into the web of the hand is painful and stops the function. The .25 is accurate and will penetrate a heavy coat with ease at 20 or so feet. The caliber is adaquate and it is up to the individual to determine if it is for him/her. As with all things there are exceptions. A person who is chemically altered or mentally unstable might react differently and that can occur with most any caliber used for defence.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:11 AM
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As much as I like .25's I think the round is destined to be a hobby round, no one is going to buy a gun like a Taurus PT25 or Beretta .25 when a Kel-Tec , Bodyguard .380 or LCP is smaller and lighter, more reliable and has a more powerful round.

There will always be mouse gun buffs who will keep the old .25 alive but I think the number of people carrying one for defense anymore is very low. I remember even back in the early 90's the "Baby Nine" as the gun rags and range buffs used to call it, was still very popular and Taurus and Beretta sold tons of their little .25's.

If I need truly small I can just use my NAA .22 LR Mini revolver.
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  #76  
Old 12-28-2014, 12:37 AM
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ANY gun should be taken seriously, and most often are.
Why do you think thugs don't ask what caliber the presented gun is before they decide to make trails?
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:20 AM
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Ah , a different question was presented above. Very few .25acp will be carried ( or placed in proverbal nightstand ) anymore , because they are no longer the least expensive new mfg repeating pistols. They have been replaced among the financialy challenged non-enthusiast buyers by the Jennings/ Davis/ Etc in usually .380, less often .32acp .

Even back in the day , the numbers of the high quality , reliable , accurate .25acp's were a small fraction of the cheap pot metal ones , sold to buyers wanting the cheapest thing that went (hopefully) bang .
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Old 12-28-2014, 02:50 AM
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I have a Baby Browning in .25, the gun is way too small for me to even shoot.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:01 AM
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A .25 Auto can prevent an attack because nobody in their right mind wants to be shot, even with a .25 Auto. That is the problem. When you are dealing with an attack from someone not in his right mind, then a .25 Auto is not the best choice. If you ever have to deal with a violent attack from someone in a drug induced psychotic state, then a lot bigger is better.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:58 AM
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I like the 25 autos and have several. I have a 950 Beretta that has
spent a lot of time in my pocket over the years but lately it stays
home most of the time. I never felt unarmed with it I have just
decided to make the effort required to carry something bigger most of
the time. However the 25 acp with good 50 gr FMJ ammo is a very
serious firearm. My own penetration tests in wood and wet newsprint
show that it easily bests the 22 LR from short barreled handguns.
Many people have been shot dead with a single round of factory FMJ.
Not long ago I read of such an incident in a city not far from mine. A
large, 240 lbs, athletic male was shot in a parking lot outside a
business after an altercation inside. The bullet entered his neck, was
deflected downward off his spine and penetrated a lung top to bottom.
Can the 25 auto be taken seriously? Yes.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:01 PM
AnthemBassMan AnthemBassMan is offline
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My Dad has my Grandpa's old Colt Pocket Hammerless, and I have my FIE Titan 25. If I had to carry it, I would. But I have a .40S&W, and Dad has a 1911. I don't care if it's a .22 short, I don't want any pistol pointed at me!

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Old 12-28-2014, 03:31 PM
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I have several small 22's and 25's that I use when instructing certain classes for comparing different calibers....back in the day I knew fellow officer's that carried them for "bugs"....know one in particular that saved his life with one of those little 25's....IMO anything that launches a projectile has a potential to harm & should be respected...I've seen ball bearings launched with an air hose penetrate laminated safety glass....and I have seen the 25's go both ways in actual shootings that I responded to....some DRT events, some not so much....was on foot patrol one evening in a large metro PD where I first started back in the 70's.....a woman approached me smoking a cigarette and calmly informed me that she had been shot, unbuttoned her blouse and revealed six obvious entry wounds that looked like big bee stings with little bleeding....she informed me that her husband had shot her because he didn't like the meal she had prepared.....I was preparing to summon some back up, but she also informed me that would not be necessary....in response to my query as to "why not"....she replied " I stuck my kitchen knife in the ***'s throat and I think he is dead"....and so he was.

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Old 12-29-2014, 02:00 AM
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.25 gets a bad rap because of the above mentioned pot metal cheap .25 pistols. Velocity out of these sloppily fitted craptastic guns was marginal at best.

Modern .25 out of a good modern handgun will be effective, although these days you have stuff like LC9's, .40 Shields and micro XD .45's that are very packable, thus rendering a .25 kind of an obsolete round that hangs on due to its low recoil and low blast.

If I'm not mistaken I think Taurus is the only half way decent gun maker currently making a .25, Beretta has "suspended" production of their Bobcats. I'm not counting junk like Raven and Lorcin as current production since theyre not made to be actually be fired.
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Old 12-29-2014, 09:06 AM
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I just figured it out by using math. An elephant weighs between 4000 and 14,000 lbs. Bell killed about 1000 elephants with a 175 gr. FMJ. At 4000 lbs. that is 22 lbs. per grain. A 50 gr. bullet should be good for at least 1100 lbs. Larry
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:37 PM
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Reminds me of the time my dad tried to give me his Jennings. That d*** thing jammed so much I'm pretty sure it was a single shot. I politely declined.

That being said, I still wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of it. My luck, it would be the one time it actually fired.
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Old 01-03-2015, 01:36 PM
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I can tell you by 1st hand experience, a .25 will totally penetrate your upper arm. Knowing that, I'm sure if you are shot in a more vital area it will kill you. Having been shot by one once, I don't want to repeat the experience. I carry a .380 most of the time, because it is smaller than the .25 I had then. (Mauser 1910).
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:00 PM
ironhead7544 ironhead7544 is offline
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If you think the 25 ACP is dead, check ammo sales.

IIRC, the 25 ACP 50 gr fmj was shown as 25% one shop stops. The other bullet types show about the same. I would use one of the flat nosed or HP loads are they are less likely to bounce off a skull.

The 32 ACP and 380 ACP with ball loads show 50% one shot stops. So do 38 Special standard 158 gr LRN from a 2 inch with 55% from a 4 inch.

So, I would say the 25 ACP is a good threat. I would just get one of the tiny 32 ACP pistols if I needed a tiny gun. You can up the stats a little bit with the Silvertip 32 ACP load if it functions in your pistol.

I wouldnt choose the 25 ACP for carry but just the threat of a gun will stop most problems.
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:23 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Back when the Seecamp was a .25 ACP, a friend who needed a deep carry pistol got one. He had a ND while standing next to his bed. This has been 25 or more years ago, and I don't recall the exact details of HOW the ND happened. In any event, the FMJ bullet penetrated his pillow and was laying on top of the sheet.

He sold it the next day and got a S&W Model 19 with 2 1/2 inch barrel.
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:49 PM
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The first hand gun I ever owned was a 25. At the time I didn't know enough about guns to understand it was a pretty wimpy caliber. It was given to me. I
learned and moved up in fire power. Still somebody liked it enough to
steal it out of my car glove compartment. From that I also learned about leaving a gun in a car in a parking deck. By the way when I called the police to report it stolen they guy laughed when I said a 25. I was afraid someone might commit a crime with it and then the police come back to me. As I said I have learned alot since those days.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:53 AM
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Back in the days before pocket 9s and 380s about the only choice one had for a deep concealment gun was either a tiny .22 or .25. I bought a PSP25 which is an top quality licensed copy of the Baby Browning. Its surprisingly accurate and in all these years has never failed to function.
That little gun rode in my pocket many times and I always trusted it. Even today when social circumstances dictate that I shouldn't carry, I'll break out the little PSP and stick it in my pocket. I feel adequately armed when I do so.

Bear in mind that the goal is not necessarily to stop the bad guy. The goal is to stop the attack.
With a tiny .25 or .22 you have to change tactics. Odds are the attack will be at bad breath distance. Forget center mass. Stick the gun right in his face and pull the trigger. Several times. If you get lucky, he may drop like a rock.
If not, take advantage of his disorientation while he tries to figure out this sudden pain and blood and RUN LIKE HELL!
Either way, you survive. That is the goal isn't it?
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:12 AM
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Default Why not......

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When I worked as a hospital orderly in the 1970's we had a black guy with a big afro come into the ER. He had been shot center of the forehead with a .25 auto. the bullet pierced the skin and traveled around to the back of his head between the scalp and the skull. There was a slight fracture of the skull at the POI. The ER doc determined that he needed to clean out the bullet path and remove the small lump from the back of his head. The fun began when my partner told him that we were going to have to shave off the afro. He said "You ain't shaving my 'fro." In the spirit of compromise we offered to only shave off half of it. It took the ER cop to calm him down.

Rest of the story: The city police asked him who did him that way and he told them he would handle it. They advised against it but he insisted there was nothing to report. Later that night a DOA showed up shot with a real gun. The city police went to question our superhero and he promptly admitted to the deed. He said "I told you I'd handle it."
Why not just shave a stripe along the bullet path?
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:21 AM
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Default The Kingfish would agree with the .32....

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Originally Posted by ironhead7544 View Post

The 32 ACP and 380 ACP with ball loads show 50% one shot stops. So do 38 Special standard 158 gr LRN from a 2 inch with 55% from a 4 inch.

So, I would say the 25 ACP is a good threat. I would just get one of the tiny 32 ACP pistols if I needed a tiny gun. You can up the stats a little bit with the Silvertip 32 ACP load if it functions in your pistol.
.
Senator Huey Long (Louisianna) would agree with using a .32. It wasn't a one shot stop though. He ran down a flight of stairs to the ground floor where he collapsed. It took him a couple of days to die, also, but it did do the job. Whether Carl Weiss, his assassin, was stopped with one shot is uncertain because he was shot 62 times.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:32 AM
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How does a 3 year old thread come back? I always wonder about that.

I have two comments about the .25 ACP.

First, I carried a Beretta 950 BS in .25 ACP daily for more than a decade. The advent of the CHL law made me less concerned about anyone spotting a gun so I switched to a 642 sometime in the late 90s. Yes, yes, before that I carried a concealed handgun without legal permission - millions of us did that. At no time was a I concerned that
Quote:
OMG! It's just a .25!
It was a gun if a gun was needed. That's all that concerned me.

Second, I love to use the phrase that I picked up some time ago and have seen others on this Forum use.
Quote:
Okay, it's just a .25 - anyone want to volunteer to be shot with it?
Didn't think so.

Same with .22s.

Sure, there are failure stories, like the pillow absorbing the impact, the head wound that didn't accomplish much - but the fact remains, it's a bullet moving at speed. NOBODY likes to get hit with a bullet - if it's the target's lucky day and it doesn't cause death or severe bodily injury, well, call him lucky - but it's a gun, firing a bullet, and I'm NOT interested in being on the receiving end.

To this day that Beretta is in the pocket of one of my bathrobes and a .22 Magnum derringer is in the pocket of the other one. First line of defense - have a gun!


***GRJ***
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
How does a 3 year old thread come back? I always wonder about that.
Bored, lonely, people with nothing better to do than cause problems!

OR, they have an "opinion" they MUST share with others.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:12 PM
Kframerbluvr Kframerbluvr is offline
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I remember a homicide that took place in my small NC hometown when I was nine. The shooter walked up to the victim in midday and shot him once with a .25 handgun. Victim immediately went down and shooter fired three or four more shots into him. DRT. The reason I remember this is because my teacher that year was the shooter's BIL. I believe he was sent to a mental facility in lieu of prison. Could be wrong about that..it happened in late 1967.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:48 AM
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Taurus sells tons of PT25 pistols so the round isn't "dead".

Many people don't know or care about stopping power and just want some kind of small pistol to carry.
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Old 01-10-2015, 01:37 PM
dogngun dogngun is offline
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Default I have several .25 pistols...

that I sometimes carry as a second gun.

I know several people who know a lot about guns who carry a .25, one of them carries nothing else and he owns a gun shop and could carry anything he can lift. One of my .25's - an Astra-made Colt Junior - was a local street police officer's backup pistol for his career.


As far as "stopping power" goes, I think a lot of that depends on the person being shot and the shooter. I remember a story from WWII told by a young LT of Marines in the pacific who shot a large Japanese infantryman with his .45 pistol....8 times...without putting him down. I guess he had not heard of Col. Cooper...

Aim at the largest possible target and shoot several times.
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:34 PM
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I like the guns .25's come in. The FN , Colt Vest Pocket. I had a Beretta 950 which was very reliable and Glaser Safety Slugs seemed pretty potent. However, I was shooting one day and using old , left out in the desert sun, plastic shot gun shell hulls. I could hit them every time, but not a one had a hole in it. The plastic got dented, but no hole.
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:02 AM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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Don't forget the .25 NAA
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:10 AM
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I 'spose, but:
Some years ago there was a report in the press of an armed robber shooting a grocery store manager several times as he ran out the door. The manager felt pain and was bleeding.
When the paramedics arrived and stripped off his shirt they started laughing. Seems all the bullets were sticking out of his skin.

I once heard someone refer to the Beretta .25 as a "nostril gun." Meaning, of course, sticking it up the assailant's nostril before pulling the trigger.

Maybe new ammo is more effective, but I side with those who say a 9mm Kurz/.380 Auto is minimum. It it's good enough for James Bond - - -
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