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  #101  
Old 01-11-2015, 09:10 AM
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Can the 25 ACP be taken seriously? Can the 25 ACP be taken seriously? Can the 25 ACP be taken seriously? Can the 25 ACP be taken seriously? Can the 25 ACP be taken seriously?  
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If I get one pointed at me I'm taking it very seriously.
^^^ Exactly ^^^ A 25 can kill you as dead as an atomic bomb.
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  #102  
Old 01-11-2015, 08:19 PM
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I believe James Bond's PPK is in .32 acp. He had to turn in his favorite Beretta .25 to do so.
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  #103  
Old 01-11-2015, 11:59 PM
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This zombie thread made me remember this old thing. Now I wanna go blow the cobwebs out of it!

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  #104  
Old 01-12-2015, 12:16 AM
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Man I remember those Ravens....cost like $50 to $75 bucks back in 1989...

The only .25 ACP firearm I have left is an NAA Stinger 1 shot pen gun ,
basicly grandfathered by the ATF because it swivels into a gun shape prior to firing.

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  #105  
Old 01-12-2015, 02:31 PM
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Sadly last year a police officer in my area died from a single hit with a 25. Hit his carotid in the neck. If it is what you have it can do the job. Every caliber has stories of spectacular stops and failures attached to it. There seems to be a tendency to amplify small caliber failure and dismiss large caliber failures. I shoot and carry a beretta 21 in 25 acp from time to time. I actually shoot it and rapid fire mag dumps at 7-10 yards are held inside a playing card and at 25 yards can hold groups inside the ten ring of a ppc target. Shot placement is king. Hit the right spot regardless of caliber it will work wrong spot same thing for failures. There are lots of stories of 45's hitting people multiple times and not stopping them. Today there are better hideout guns and calibers for sure. But a well placed 25 can ruin an assailants day no doubt
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  #106  
Old 01-12-2015, 04:15 PM
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My old Titan 25 is pretty accurate. But I always pull the shots a little because of how small it fits in my hand. Either way I get decent groups from it. This was at the typical 21 ft mark.

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  #107  
Old 01-17-2015, 04:30 PM
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Default wow....the zombie thread lives!

I find it hard to believe that I started this thread a few years ago and it is still plucking along.

I was contemplating carrying a Colt 25 ACP vest pocket like the one that my father's mother carried. My sister inherited the little Colt and now it does dresser drawer duty. I don't think that it has even been cleaned in the time that she has owned it. I can only hope that it is well oiled and relaxing comfortably.

I did inherit my great grandfather's Armi Galesi (shown in the pimp gun thread ). I was able to repair the issues that my dad had reported (unreliable feed/extraction, ect). I have now shot a full box of JSP rounds out of it. It is remarkable comfortable to shoot, but just as heavy as my 36 (maybe heavier?). I might carry it one day for 'old times sake', but I never knew my great grandfather, so memories of him have to be relayed by my dad. He was a judge and carried it concealed in a leather glove. Apparently, he was quite a character, but I will let dad relate those stories if he chooses to post them.

Thanks for all the comments so far, it seems that the little 25 has been carried by a lot of different folks over the years, and it can still do the job.....and nobody has volunteered to to stand in front of one for testing.

Keep the stories coming gents
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  #108  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:15 PM
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Default Two .25 ACP anecdotes from my college days in the '70s

Some great stories here; thought I would pass along two stories about the .25 ACP from my youth.

I went to a small college that had a really good basketball program. One of the best players graduated and was hired as an assistant coach. He was built like a brick house, tough and hard. He was caught in bed one night with another guy's wife or girlfriend and was shot in the heart with a .25 auto at close range. He dropped dead instantly. A buddy of mine was working in the medical examiner's office where the autopsy was done. The ME said this guy was the most fit person he had ever examined, but a .25 to the heart dropped him instantly.

The other story I read in the newspaper in he '70s. A young man was leaving his mobile home for a night on the town. As he descended the steps outside the front door, the .25 auto he was carrying in his front pants pocket fired, the bullet hitting his femoral artery. He bled to death in his front yard. That story shook me up. Now, with what we know about tourniquets, I wonder if he couldn't have saved himself by using his belt to tie off his thigh. But we didn't have cell phones back then and he might not have been able to call for help.

I have the Browning Baby Lightweight .25 Auto my Dad owned. He loved little guns, the smaller and lighter the better. I used to give him a hard time about carrying a small, low powered gun, but at least he was armed. I'm glad he didn't have to use it. My son and I take it out every once in a while and shoot it and swap reminiscences about his Grandfather. It hits steel targets with authority. I enjoy the .25s and am always on the lookout for a Beretta 950bs or a Colt/Asta. They are fun to play with but my Ruger .380 is a lot better choice for a pocket gun.
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  #109  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hazman View Post
my dad is 80 yrs. (god bless him), and is still involved in the repo buisness, and never leaves home without his "bauer .25" in his pocket, along with "colt .38 detective special"inside his waste. he's carried the .25 since the early 80's.
Hopefully he carries the .38 in his waist. It would be awfully messy if he carried it his waste!
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  #110  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:31 PM
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I believe James Bond's PPK is in .32 acp. He had to turn in his favorite Beretta .25 to do so.
The way I remember it from the Bond books I read in the 1960s was that in "From Russia with Love," his Beretta .25 caught on his clothes and malfunctioned when he tried to shot the Soviet woman with the poison-tipped blade in her shoe.

In the next book, "Dr. No," Bond had been ordered to upgun. The armorer Q gave him a choice of a J frame S&W or a Walther PPK, probably in .32 ACP. Bond carries the Smith on his mission but loses it in combat. Thereafter he uses the Walther.

As I was typing this, I did a quick search to check my memory and found this very interesting site about the guns of 007.

The Handguns of Ian Fleming?s James Bond
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  #111  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:37 PM
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Top coat, top hat,
And I don't worry coz my wallet's fat.
Black shades, white gloves,
Lookin' sharp lookin' for love.
They come runnin' just as fast as they can
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man.

Now, that's a beautiful, historic little gun, no matter what you think of the ballistics.
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  #112  
Old 08-02-2015, 09:58 PM
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Top coat, top hat,
And I don't worry coz my wallet's fat.
Black shades, white gloves,
Lookin' sharp lookin' for love.
They come runnin' just as fast as they can
'Cause every girl crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man.

I don't care what anyone says. That is...
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  #113  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:13 PM
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I have some mouse guns somewhere.
A M
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  #114  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:20 PM
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I have a mini .22 revolver somewhere. A HS .22 mag derringer in GOLD.
Plus a .22 short Astra which is really accurate for a tiny .22.
None get carried any more.
The Bauer I had 30 years back is long gone. After pocket carry on a fishing trip I actually needed it. She was bound up with sand and lint. So I used an axe handle to TCOB. Nothing serious though.
I will keep my faith in a J frame now. 158 GR FBI loads.
Recently I opted to carry an LCP since my surgery requires no belt and it is so flat and light it will do for now.
Serious as a heart attack the .25 will still put a hurting on you.
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  #115  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:25 PM
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I'm confident that I would take a .25 much more seriously from the muzzle than from the screen of my iPad 2 but no, I don't really take it seriously. For the past 10+ years I've carried a Glock 19 (9mm), 23 (.40), or one of 3 J-frame S&W .38s and realistically .38 Spl is as "low" as I go for CCW except on very rare occasions when I'll carry a Kel-Tec P-32 (yes, I know..."it's only a .32") as it is unbelievably easy to conceal in any situation.
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  #116  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SAFireman View Post
After having seen numerous threads about the pocket guns (Colt Vest Pocket, Baby Browning, Walther 9, ect..) I wonder just how effective the 25 ACP really is?

My grandmother carried one on duty as a probation officer (yes, it was her only carry gun, and it was department approved). With all of the 25's floating around, can they be taken seriously? Are they effective? Would a 22 long rifle round be better?

I just ask because there are many times that I would feel less ~obtrusive~ carrying one of the pocket guns that lies flat in the pocket and is teeny tiny.

I do know of several LEO's that carried the 25 as a last ditch 'get off of me' gun, so it can't be that bad....

What do you guys think?
Who here carries one daily?
Failing to take ANY CALIBER gun seriously could be a fatal mistake by the one posing the threat.
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  #117  
Old 08-02-2015, 10:55 PM
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So after four whole years of talking about this, is there a consensus? Anyone reached a definite conclusion, or does the (yawn) issue need further study and research?
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  #118  
Old 08-03-2015, 08:13 AM
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So after four whole years of talking about this, is there a consensus? Anyone reached a definite conclusion, or does the (yawn) issue need further study and research?
A complete and total maybe.
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  #119  
Old 08-03-2015, 08:17 AM
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Yes.

I love that ad.
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Old 08-03-2015, 08:19 AM
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Began LEO in 1962. First service revolver was a .38 spl 4" blued Colt Trooper (used). On the advice of a "Seasoned" Officer I acquired a Browning "Baby .25 acp which I carried in my handcuff pouch and handcuffs in my right rear pocket. In the future after California's "Onion Field" incident I CCW a Colt Agent in my front pants pocket and a hidden handcuff key taped to the rear of my belt.
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  #121  
Old 08-03-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jrd1976 View Post
A friend of the shooter told me this story.

A big guy picked a bar fight with the shooter, who put 7 25ACP rounds into his chest, instead of his face. This pissed the big guy off and he broke the shooters back in the fight. All 7 rounds were found lodged in the chest muscles. None penetrated into the chest cavity.
That was a tactical error and not a fault of the gun or the ammo.

I carried a Beretta .25 single action only for several years. I practiced "lacing up", that is the first shot to the chest, then next shot a couple of inches up, and then another a couple of inches up. By the time the gun was empty you showed all the rounds in a single line starting with the chest and ending with a shot to the forehead. The neck and nose shots were going to be very effective.

The sights were minimal but so was recoil and it was easy to make accurate placement.

You don't even need heavy muscles to stop a .25, a heavy jacket or a leather one might do as well. So you have to know the limitations and adopt tactics that work for that round.

I never had a failure to fire or a failure to feed with the .25 so I consider it preferable to a .22.
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  #122  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:42 AM
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I regard this kind of weapon as something to carry when you just are not able to carry something more powerful. It is a belly gun for close quarters use only.
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  #123  
Old 08-03-2015, 12:29 PM
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I regard this kind of weapon as something to carry when you just are not able to carry something more powerful. It is a belly gun for close quarters use only.
I agree. When I carried my .25 Beretta there were no other options in that physical size.

Nowadays there are .32 and .380 guns that are physically the same size as the .25 Beretta and in my opinion they make the .25 obsolete.

If I really wanted a small, small gun to carry I would probably get a Kel-tec P-32. It is about half the weight of the Beretta .25 and significantly more powerful.

See: Smallest Guns
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  #124  
Old 08-03-2015, 12:53 PM
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This Browning Vest Pocket(The predecessor to the Baby Browning) was a recent acquisition. I got it from an elderly lady whose father had bought it new in 1908. I showed it to Anthony Vanderlinden the Browning authority who declared it "in museum quality condition". The fitted suede pouch is very rare and also in excellent condition for 107 years old. The pistol itself is in virtually brand new condition.
Jim
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  #125  
Old 08-03-2015, 12:56 PM
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I take seriously anything which could kill me. I don't want to be shot AT ALL, whether it be with a .25acp or a .500 A-Square.

Would I RELY UPON a .25acp to protect me? Not in a million years. I have no confidence in the .32acp as a primary self-defense cartridge. .25acp is definitely on the wrong side of that equation.
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  #126  
Old 08-03-2015, 01:07 PM
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I just need to mention one step down from the .25 ACP in an an auto is the over under derringer with hammer. It is not a good choice by any standard.
I thought I would need to use one once and Thank God I did not.
Then I traded it for a 8mm Mauser adding $100.I am glad it is gone.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:22 PM
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I like my Beretta 21A .25 cal which I purchased in 1990 and still have.



How did this thread get revived?
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:55 PM
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One more of the little Colt...

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Old 08-03-2015, 02:45 PM
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Dang it C&L!! Now I need to get a little Colt.
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  #130  
Old 08-03-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
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I just need to mention one step down from the .25 ACP in an an auto is the over under derringer with hammer. It is not a good choice by any standard.
I thought I would need to use one once and Thank God I did not.
Then I traded it for a 8mm Mauser adding $100.I am glad it is gone.
I had one of the first High Standard over/under derringers in .22 magnum.

At 10 feet the bullets would keystone and you'd see a profile of the bullet through the paper target. Once it started keystoning there was no telling where the bullet would end up.

Also out of every box of bullets I had two or three failures to fire.

With only two shots to start with that was a scary failure rate. I sent it back to H-S twice but no improvement.

With two shots available it was possible that both might be duds. I traded in the gun.

I am no longer an "early adopter". My .380 AMT was similarly unreliable--and I had to wait 6 months for it to come in.
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Old 08-03-2015, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
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I like my Beretta 21A .25 cal which I purchased in 1990 and still have.



How did this thread get revived?
I liked the earlier version even better (single action only). It was thinner and had a better trigger.

DeSantis was a young company back then and I bought a shoot through wallet holster from him. He did not take into account that side mount magazine release and invariably when I removed the "wallet" from my pocket the magazine would drop out.

For years I would not buy any DeSantis products because he failed to field test anything. He'd make a sample and try it out in the shop and then go into production.

In any case I think the side mount magazine release is an issue that has to be addressed whenever buying a wallet holster for the Beretta. Some extra "breathing space" is needed around the release. On my wallet, he simply punched a hole where the magazine release was located. He did not recall any of the holsters that were out there however.
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Old 08-03-2015, 03:53 PM
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This is a Colt .25 automatic, the most wimpy handgun in the world, and it can blow your thumbnail clean off. Do you feel lucky, PUNK?

I have a Browning 1905, a Browning Baby, and the "damned" Beretta 418. I'd like to get a Colt 1908. But I'm not shooting at anything alive with one.
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Old 08-03-2015, 04:31 PM
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Old thread.

I've got a Titan FIE in the safe from many years ago when I bought it from another cop who ordered some on his FFL (cost $35, I think). It stopped feeding and cycling properly sooner than the Jennings .22 I ordered from the same FFL.

Anyway, the advantage of the .25 ACP is that it's a center-fire cartridge. It seems the ammo makers can more easily (and consistently) make rounds which feed and function in a number of the little guns for which it's chambered. The disadvantage is the potential level of ballistic performance when fired from watch pocket guns.

The disadvantage of the .22LR is in the design, manufacturing and method of priming. The soft lead and wax seems to more quickly foul a little gun, too. The advantage of the .22LR, even when fired from an itty bitty watch fob pistol, is that it can apparently penetrate, perforate and otherwise cause wounding which can be lethal.

Pick your balance of advantage/disadvantage in whatever manner best suits your perceived needs, but bear in mind that both are probably more akin to being a "repeating ice pic" (I acknowledge borrowing this description from a gentleman on another gun forum) than a more capable defensive caliber. The .22LR might have a deeper reach to its ice pick-like nature.

I guess the easiest way to convey my personal opinion, is that while I still own that Titan .25 (which will one day be submitted to be melted down, if I can ever remember it's in the safe), I'll never again carry it, or buy one.

I will, however, carry my little NAA .22LR (and the new .22MAG version I just bought) in those circumstances where I consider the possible risk assessment to be such that I don't feel I'll need to be armed ... but still want to have an "Onion Field" type weapon, other than a blade, on my person.

FWIW, the nicest feeling and functioning little .25 I ever tried was a Seecamp. It was the smaller watch pocket gun a friend carried to complement his Rolex (when he wasn't carrying his Seecamp .32 ). I thought it was odd how the Seecamp could make the .25 recoil like a larger caliber, though.

Anyway, some owners might well consider the nicer .25's to be gentleman's pocket jewelry (but let's not forget the ladies who had them), but I'd sooner have a little less "distinguished" watch pocket .22LR, under most circumstances.
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Old 08-03-2015, 07:49 PM
Moe Mentum Moe Mentum is offline
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its better than a .22, not my first choice, I would go with nothing less than a .380
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Old 08-03-2015, 08:54 PM
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Found a 950BS recently and love it.

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Old 08-03-2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick_A View Post
Yes.

I love that ad.
The bear went down before the second box of ammo ran out. The bear didn't weigh that much before the shooting started.
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Grumpa72 View Post
Perfect response. Either that or "here, let me shoot you in the face (or fill in the blank body part) 7 times and we will see if this should be taken seriously. I don't carry one except as a backup but it beats swear words and a mean disposition.
Grumpa72...I'm 68 and I USE swear words and occasionally my disposition is not sunny...
I have an old SA Beretta Bobcat, with the safety - 950 BS - that has occasionally gone around with me for a little extra...It is very safe to carry cocked and locked, and is actually pretty accurate.
I had a small collection of .25's that I mostly sold off, but I kept a 1926 Astra - their first model - and that old Beretta...because it has NEVER failed.



"It works" is my first qualification for a carry gun of any kind.

Added - I also have a pair of Keltec P32's that get more carry time than the .25 now...
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:55 PM
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Heck I might as well throw in some eye candy of my new baby.

Beretta Model 20.


Don't think it will get carried except to and from the range but she sure is a sweety.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:39 PM
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Dang that's a shiny little Beretta! Nice.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:42 PM
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Dang that's a shiny little Beretta! Nice.
She might not be as classy as your 1908 Vest, but she has nice look.
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Old 08-23-2015, 09:44 PM
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Looks mighty classy to me!
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:51 AM
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I'm loving those old Colts and Berettas. Very classy indeed. Actually carrying them might be a bit like carrying a vintage, solid gold fountain pen: extremely classy, but for any practical use on a daily basis, better choices exist these days.

As to the effectiveness of the .25 ACP, anything can work in the right circumstances. I remember in the early 90s, the Chuck E. Cheese mass killer used a .25 ACP to murder 4 people, all head shots. One of the victims was shot in the jaw. He was badly wounded, but he lived to testify against the shooter. There was a birthday party right up to closing time, and to the survivor working in the kitchen, the shots sounded like balloons popping. I wonder had the killer used a more substantial caliber, especially a magnum, could the survivor and maybe one or two more ascertained the sounds were indeed gunfire and ran out the service exit in the kitchen? I don't know. In many active killer scenarios, survivors think the report of gunfire is anything but (balloons, construction sounds, someone kicking a door, etc.). I think the common human reaction is to fear looking the fool and overreacting to balloons, even people who are familiar with firearms. Now, anyone would rather look like a fool and be alive than look cool and be dead, but when it's actually happening, the most common reaction is denial.

Sorry for the little sidetrack, but I think the point I'm trying to make is that proper mindset usually trumps something as ultimately insignificant as handgun caliber.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:08 PM
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I would love to hear the story of that bear that was killed by that .25 Colt.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:45 PM
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I carry a .32 ACP CZ-83, loaded with FMJ. 15+1 is a pretty good capacity and .32's aren't bad penetrators. I'm not a ballistic expert, but shooting them into pieces of wood at close range shows they have some up-close punch. I don't use HP's in my .32 for CC, I want those bullets to punch as deep as possible since there's not a whole lot of bullet mass or energy to begin with.

.25 is a close range shoot and scoot round, not something you get into run and gun battles with. If you have to use it, better off filling the BG's face with a few of those little pills. We all know .22 LR has more energy than .25 but isn't as reliable.

I almost bought a little Bernardelli copy of the Baby Browning, but it was so small I wouldn't know whether to conceal it or use it as a keychain

I know Taurus sells a ton of those little .25 Auto PT25's, people suck 'em up like crazy because they're cheap and easy to conceal. As long as Taurus and other companies keep making cheap little potmetal .25's this round will never die off.
Jan Libourel (formerly of Guns and Ammo, now of Gun World) said it best:

"Nobody likes the .25 ACP, except people"!

The .25 ACP performance, in direct physical ballistic comparison to the .22 Long Rifle, is identical! When it comes to "street performance" the reliability of the center fire .25 ACP, (along with the semi-rimmed case of he 1908 cartridge) place it "head and shoulders" above the .22 Long Rifle.

It may not win any "stopping power" contests, but when it comes to being there at the appropriate moment... I'll take it!

(BTW, I own two FIE Titans, one works very well, while the other has a minor issue with "trigger reset").

Last edited by Captain O; 09-19-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 07:33 PM
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When you can get a sub 10oz. .380 (LCP) I just don't see any reason to carry a .25.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:50 PM
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In the future after California's "Onion Field" incident I CCW a Colt Agent in my front pants pocket and a hidden handcuff key taped to the rear of my belt.
Get yourself a 5.11 tactical belt. It has a elastic key hide build in to the rear.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:06 PM
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...
DeSantis was a young company back then and I bought a shoot through wallet holster from him. He did not take into account that side mount magazine release and invariably when I removed the "wallet" from my pocket the magazine would drop out.

For years I would not buy any DeSantis products because he failed to field test anything. He'd make a sample and try it out in the shop and then go into production.

In any case I think the side mount magazine release is an issue that has to be addressed whenever buying a wallet holster for the Beretta. Some extra "breathing space" is needed around the release. On my wallet, he simply punched a hole where the magazine release was located. He did not recall any of the holsters that were out there however.

Had to dig my wallet holster out as couldnt recall the brand, says Galco WAL 208B which I purchased for my Beretta 21A in 22lr, That was a great little backup gun riding in the back pocket and looking like a black wallet .
Sadly I was told they are contraband now..will have to investigate more.

PS that bear in the ad was most likely "wounded" with a rifle then "Killed" by the 25 with a point blank shot to the back of the head.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SAFireman View Post
After having seen numerous threads about the pocket guns (Colt Vest Pocket, Baby Browning, Walther 9, ect..) I wonder just how effective the 25 ACP really is?

My grandmother carried one on duty as a probation officer (yes, it was her only carry gun, and it was department approved). With all of the 25's floating around, can they be taken seriously? Are they effective? Would a 22 long rifle round be better?

I just ask because there are many times that I would feel less ~obtrusive~ carrying one of the pocket guns that lies flat in the pocket and is teeny tiny.

I do know of several LEO's that carried the 25 as a last ditch 'get off of me' gun, so it can't be that bad....

What do you guys think?
Who here carries one daily?
James Bond thought it was good enough, so it must be OK. LOL.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:12 AM
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Guns like the Ruger LCP are not much larger than a 25acp and carry a much, much more powerful self defense round in the 380acp cartridge. Personally, I think the 22LR round is probably better than the very low powered 25, but why carry either when very small, flat 380's are available, or for matter, smallish 9mm handguns?
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
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Guns like the Ruger LCP are not much larger than a 25acp and carry a much, much more powerful self defense round in the 380acp cartridge. Personally, I think the 22LR round is probably better than the very low powered 25, but why carry either when very small, flat 380's are available, or for matter, smallish 9mm handguns?
Vito,

You have a good point about the relative size of say the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec vs the Colt Vest Pocket.

When it comes to outright class the little Colt (and others) just flat out beat down the plastic fantastic guns.
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