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  #1  
Old 03-29-2011, 04:34 PM
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Default I'm selling my gun...

...and buying a cell phone. Oh brother...

YouTube - Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:11 PM
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!st thing I say is....... Remember the training we got as get during the Cold War era...... Duck and cover...Pull gun while in that cover.... Then assess the situation, and return fire as required.... Of course all this needs to be done in seconds!!
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:21 PM
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Guess I should start practicing my draw while wearing a helmet.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:28 PM
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Guess I should start practicing my draw while wearing a helmet.
...and a gigantic white t-shirt.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:32 PM
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So lets recap. Don't carry a gun, you'll just get hurt or killed if you do. Politely ask your attacker if he minds if you place a cell phone call to the authorities. Then simply go into a fetal position and beg for your life (if you can't run away).
Got it.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:52 PM
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Gotta love that mainstream media, anti-2a bias!
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:03 PM
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R O T F L M A O
average normal folks just dont have a chance
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:08 PM
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ABC? I'm not sure about them at all.They clearly preached for nobody to even defend them self.The people was very young,so why not do the same with people a bit older-say,,hunters,military etc?ABC-please,what a joke.I carry fully open,and if nothing else,at least have a chance to shoot back,and not get it in the back.
Just my opinion.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:25 AM
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Only I is qualified to carry a GO-Lock For-tay says the nice DEA Agent.

I have found in the little over thirty three years in LE that most Officers would rather have a Custom Pen and Pencil Set than a Custom Firearm. I take what many Officers say with a grain of salt.

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Old 03-30-2011, 06:34 AM
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This made the rounds last year, still getting the same comments.
What a crock!! This fails for a lot of reasons.

ABC Experts:
"Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing."
"Run away - [only] 12.5 times out of 100 [you will be shot.]"
"Don't make any sudden moves."
"Break a window and call 911."

Oy! Just like the media to create a set of staged scenes of nearly impossible defenses and then portray it all as all-encompassing and futile. If I showed a car driving into a bridge abutment at 60MPH that is destroyed, would you stop driving?

So I cannot outdraw a drawn gun, gee ABC I never thought of that!

But really, if that crowded class room was in PA and a real classroom, there wouldn't be any guns in it, it is either a school or a police training facility and it would have been a gun-free safety zone, so a real BG with his gun just wouldn't be there, now would there???

Proof positive there were not ENOUGH armed folks in that gun-free safety zone.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:02 AM
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So I cannot outdraw a drawn gun, gee ABC I never thought of that!
:
Actually there are many walking among us and several on this board that has not learned that you cannot outdraw a drawn gun.

I only have one documented incident where that happened but have several where the person was too slow on the draw. Yet many are intent on being able to draw once confronted and walk around carrying 50+ extra rounds and two additional guns waiting for someone to place them in life threatning situations. I am amazed at those that offer the additional magazine required arguement, "if my mag breaks, then I need another." Yes, they do but when are they going to get a chance to change it out? An armed perp is not going to allow them to draw a gun, change a mag or reload. If they have such time, then there is not a deadly force threat.

I firmly support both open and concealed carry but there are things to consider before doing so. We have people carrying but very seldom needs what they carry and I support their right to do so and I carry 100% of the time, either working or off. ABC is not a supporter of the 2nd Amendment but they fully support the 1st. In the segment at hand, ABC brings out factual scenes that may effect the avg person.
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Old 03-30-2011, 07:08 AM
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I boil all of this talk down to "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it..." If the situation ever were to happen where I could use it then I would rather have that option than not. This video changes none of that.
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Old 03-30-2011, 11:37 PM
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I agree with what's been said, but did it appear that the "bad guy" singled out the armed person right after shooting the teacher? How much more advantage could they give the baddie? He has "the" element-surprise-has his gun out-knows who is armed in the room, all of whom have been forced to where the aforementioned "costume" and has played this silly game many times before. The scarry part is how many folks will believe this stuff. I'd be willing to bet that the survivors of situations like the cafeteria in Texas, the Mc donalds in southern Cal, and all of the rest of the blood baths where no one had a gun, or "wasn't allowed" to bring it in with them, would have some salient comments for the ABC folks. I reallized some time ago that I am a sheep dog. I didn't sign up for that poaition, but that's who I am. I have prayed that I never have to use my weapon on anyone for the rest of my life, but if I must, I pray that He would power me to use it effectively. I am one that could not abide watching while something like this happens, it just isn't part of my personality. It is a weighty responsibility that becomes heavier as time passes in the world we live in. Flapjack
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:48 AM
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If concealed carry on university campuses is not permitted, then what is the purpose of staging this "training exercise" in a lecture hall/classroom setting filled with students? And Joey the weekend Airsoft warrior/frat boy is not the best model of a licensed and properly trained CC permit holder.
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:22 PM
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If concealed carry on university campuses is not permitted, then what is the purpose of staging this "training exercise" in a lecture hall/classroom setting filled with students? And Joey the weekend Airsoft warrior/frat boy is not the best model of a licensed and properly trained CC permit holder.
Thats no joke! Too bad they didnt do the experiment with someone who regularly carries and shoots/trains with their weapon. I think if they had someone who was VERY familiar with carrying THEIR weapon the outcome of their little hack-job "study" would have been a little different. But then it would show the possibility of a well practiced CC Permit holder stopping the perp and maybe even save a couple lives...But we couldnt have that could we...Let not the facts get in the way of the agenda..
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:49 PM
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Thats no joke! Too bad they didnt do the experiment with someone who regularly carries and shoots/trains with their weapon. I think if they had someone who was VERY familiar with carrying THEIR weapon the outcome of their little hack-job "study" would have been a little different. But then it would show the possibility of a well practiced CC Permit holder stopping the perp and maybe even save a couple lives...But we couldnt have that could we...Let not the facts get in the way of the agenda..
And, I would add, use a "shooter" that's not a professional police firearms instructor that already KNOWS who has the concealed handgun in the crowd.

That part cracked me up. The "shooter" goes into the classroom and sends a couple of rounds toward the professor and then immediately goes straight for the poor kid with the concealed gun. The kid never had a chance...

Of course we all understand the whole thing is rigged from the get go, but Joe Public doesn't realize that.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:01 PM
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Look at this video closely, this kid is either in on it or a complete idiot. Yes, he got the gun caught in his shirt, that could actually happen to someone not trained but to get the gun so tangled up and not be ever able to get the gun out at all is a little odd to me....
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:40 PM
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It's all a crock.......if someone had been able to pull a CCW gun at Virginia Tech, that tragedy could have been averted. Same at Ft. Hood, or Tucson.

Sometimes running away is not an option, if there is nowhere to run. "Fight or flight", sometimes flight is the best option, no doubt. If you are accosted by 3 or 4 people in a parking lot at night,with obvious bad intentions, and you have a chance to jump in your car and get out of there without getting into a shoot out, by all means do so.

If you are in a crowded public place and there's an "active shooter" your CC gun will be the lifesaver, not a cell phone.

If you're back is against the wall, you're Droid ain't gonna save you.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:28 AM
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One other thing to consider ... how reliable is your cell phone service? If any of my firearms failed as much as my Verizon service, I wouldn't own them much longer.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:05 AM
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Please tell me that no one took this liberal clap-trap seriously. It is the same mindset as the present regime- apologize for everything we as a country have done, including murderous dictators. Talk with your enemies and they will understand, then they will put a bullet through your brain. Problem solved.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:44 AM
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I read a story of a woman who, due to state carry restrictions, had to leave her gun in her car when she was meeting her parents at a restaurant. Eating with her parents someone opened up inside the restaurant and killed and wounded a bunch of people, IIRC her parents were included. Her interview on TV was much to the effect that if she had been allowed to carry her firearm inside the restaurant she would have had a chance at defending herself, her family, and the people inside, perhaps reducing the magnitude of this tragedy. I recall the state changed the law regarding restaurant carry not long after that. Sorry I don't recall which state or when.

Of course, THAT would never make national TV.

Instead, we get a "fixed" scenario of a shooter knowing and targeting the one person who is armed in a crowd. Too bad Mr. Johnny Airsoft didn't think to mention that if others in that crowd were armed perhaps he would still be 'alive.' That would be the time they go to commercial...
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:26 AM
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Martya...

You are thinking of the Luby's shooting in Texas. Was a big part of what led to having legal concealed carry in Texas.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:46 AM
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As an engineer, I grimace when watching such poorly conceived experiments. I'm very glad to see that all of the faults were noticed by everyone else in the posts above and on the youtube comments section. At least they were obvious faults.

Additionally, as people here have pointed out, the conclusion they seem to want you to reach is to just give up?

In a "real" situation, the shooter would have no idea who is armed. In fact, they wouldn't know if anybody was armed. When the shooter starts, the ensuing confusion and panic will distract his attention to body masses going everywhere. If one person in that crowd draws a concealed weapon properly, the shooter won't see it until it comes to bear. Will the ccw holder stop the shooter? Maybe, maybe not. But here's the deal; I'd rather have a chance to walk away than to be defenseless. Without a gun, my only chance of survival is to hope the shooter doesn't choose me randomly in the crowd.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:17 PM
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Yeah the situational bias in this test is ridiculous. The actors entering the room knew exactly where he was sitting, so as to target him directly, he had a huge helmet on, work gloves which no doubt make it harder to draw a weapon, and I'm sure they picked the absolute worst reactions to air. I'm sure there were many others who did phenomenal, but that doesn't make for good TV
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:54 AM
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Martya...

You are thinking of the Luby's shooting in Texas. Was a big part of what led to having legal concealed carry in Texas.
Yep, that's the one, thanks!

I am SO bad with names....
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:20 PM
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One other thing to consider ... how reliable is your cell phone service? If any of my firearms failed as much as my Verizon service, I wouldn't own them much longer.
LMAOROTFPIMP!

How true.........
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:44 AM
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Nearly a year after this post was originally made, I have an admission to share. I now fully appreciate the merits of a cell phone in an emergency situation ... so much so that I carry two full charged phones on me at all times, one in a Lobo Threepersons holster and one in a Renegade ankle rig. I call it the "Verizon Reload" ...
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:12 AM
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Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

Best Sit-Com episode since "Friends"
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:01 AM
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This is typical Lamestream media and the liberal goddess - Diane Sawyer stuff. And, as always no rebuttal allowed. I would like to see what she would do if a bg sticks a gun in her face. Point is always the same - your on your own, and police agencies actually don't have to respond to you. If they do respond to your situation how long are you going to wait 5 minutes - 10 minutes - 20 minutes?

If you do, chances are your either already dead or fatally wounded. I would rather take my chances with me - and not depend on someone else who may or may not show up in time.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:15 AM
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This video is several years old. I remember "picking it apart" somewhere around 2008, IIRC. Time has proven nearly everything in that presentation to be inaccurate. There is some variety of concealed carry in 48 states now and all of their assertions that armed citizens are, "fooling themselves if they think they will be able to react effectively to armed aggressors", has proven to be complete and total horse manure.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:28 AM
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.....I am amazed at those that offer the additional magazine required arguement, "if my mag breaks, then I need another." Yes, they do but when are they going to get a chance to change it out? An armed perp is not going to allow them to draw a gun, change a mag or reload. If they have such time, then there is not a deadly force threat......
I am amazed you would suggest that carrying a spare magazine for a semi-auto is not a smart idea. At the very least, it gives the person the opportunity to bring his/her gun back up to full capacity after an incident has taken place. In reality, I have seen so many actual videos of "armed perps" turning around and running the other way as soon as the armed citizen fires a shot or two in resistance, that there is very good reason to think enough time might very well exist for the citizen to perform a tactical reload and if need be, perhaps even a slide-lock reload, in a lot of these situations.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:56 AM
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You won't see Me running away! Maybe hobble/shuffle a little
more quickly. Haven't been able to run away in years. Now I
try to be aware of my surroundings, and keep an eye on people
I'm not sure of. I'd at least like the chance of making some
*** remember with regret that he even tried to take the last
vestige of my dignity away. JMHO, TACC1.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:36 AM
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Actually there are many walking among us and several on this board that has not learned that you cannot outdraw a drawn gun.

I only have one documented incident where that happened but have several where the person was too slow on the draw. Yet many are intent on being able to draw once confronted and walk around carrying 50+ extra rounds and two additional guns waiting for someone to place them in life threatning situations. I am amazed at those that offer the additional magazine required arguement, "if my mag breaks, then I need another." Yes, they do but when are they going to get a chance to change it out? An armed perp is not going to allow them to draw a gun, change a mag or reload. If they have such time, then there is not a deadly force threat.

I firmly support both open and concealed carry but there are things to consider before doing so. We have people carrying but very seldom needs what they carry and I support their right to do so and I carry 100% of the time, either working or off. ABC is not a supporter of the 2nd Amendment but they fully support the 1st. In the segment at hand, ABC brings out factual scenes that may effect the avg person.
These silly, unrealistic examples of the video aside, real world thoughts....

I know people who have been saved by extra Mags and Bugs. I also knew a friend of a friend and fellow LEO who was killed for lack of BUG, the BG ran him down and shot him AFTER he figured out the LEO's gun had jammed. Your posts are typically pretty good, but not this one.

If you have been firing behind cover, the BG will not see you take the 2-3 seconds it takes to do a mag change. If you are playing Wyatt Earp and standing out in the open, then you get what you get.

Rule one of every LE basic class is never give up your gun and I've never seen asterisk that says "unless the BG's is drawn in any of them." You seek cover, take the guys gun hand to hand, cheese wiz him in the eye (lol), something, but raise hands and wait to be shot is not one of the recommended tactics. I don't get your post at all.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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Although ABC isn't going to, but lets see the same scenario with people that do carry regularly, or have some training. Seems one of the biggest mistakes besides no training, and over sized shirt is when they go to draw. They all crunched their bodies into the firearm. Making for an impossible draw. JMO
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:28 PM
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I boil all of this talk down to "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it..." If the situation ever were to happen where I could use it then I would rather have that option than not.
Simple as that. No point in trying to reason with an organization like ABC News.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:46 PM
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I agree with what's been said, but did it appear that the "bad guy" singled out the armed person right after shooting the teacher? How much more advantage could they give the baddie? He has "the" element-surprise-has his gun out-knows who is armed in the room, all of whom have been forced to where the aforementioned "costume" and has played this silly game many times before. The scarry part is how many folks will believe this stuff. I'd be willing to bet that the survivors of situations like the cafeteria in Texas, the Mc donalds in southern Cal, and all of the rest of the blood baths where no one had a gun, or "wasn't allowed" to bring it in with them, would have some salient comments for the ABC folks. I reallized some time ago that I am a sheep dog. I didn't sign up for that poaition, but that's who I am. I have prayed that I never have to use my weapon on anyone for the rest of my life, but if I must, I pray that He would power me to use it effectively. I am one that could not abide watching while something like this happens, it just isn't part of my personality. It is a weighty responsibility that becomes heavier as time passes in the world we live in. Flapjack
Bingo---- someone noticed! The "shooters" knew who was armed. They targeted them asap.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:57 PM
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Anyone who thinks that a cell phone is better protection then a legally concealed handgun does NOT imho have all of there marbles
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:10 PM
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here in illinois, those in charge tell us, that CCW is not necessary.........the government is there to protect you
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:10 PM
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dont ya just love how the one armed participant instantly becomes a bullet sponge ... as if the gunmen have a full heads up?
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:35 PM
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Please!!! This test is so weighted toward what ABC wanted, it's not even funny or fair. Lets put a trained professional up against Joe/Jane Anybody off the street and lets see how Joe/Jane does. It doesn't matter if it's baseball, basketball, or shooting, the trained professional is going to have the advantage every time. Now lets mix in an oversize baggy t-shirt, kids with no experience drawing a weapon from a holster, and let's also limit their field of view and comfort level by placing something over their head.

Real world scenario, I don't think so..........
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Martya View Post
I read a story of a woman who, due to state carry restrictions, had to leave her gun in her car when she was meeting her parents at a restaurant. Eating with her parents someone opened up inside the restaurant and killed and wounded a bunch of people, IIRC her parents were included. Her interview on TV was much to the effect that if she had been allowed to carry her firearm inside the restaurant she would have had a chance at defending herself, her family, and the people inside, perhaps reducing the magnitude of this tragedy. I recall the state changed the law regarding restaurant carry not long after that. Sorry I don't recall which state or when.

Of course, THAT would never make national TV.

Instead, we get a "fixed" scenario of a shooter knowing and targeting the one person who is armed in a crowd. Too bad Mr. Johnny Airsoft didn't think to mention that if others in that crowd were armed perhaps he would still be 'alive.' That would be the time they go to commercial...
This is who you are talking about:
Gun Control - A victims perspective!!! - YouTube
That is her appearing before out Illustrious, pro second amendment Congress.

Suzanna Hupp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by KJM; 03-07-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-07-2012, 03:14 PM
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How many times has the press done hatchet-jobs like this? remember the pickup truck that had the explosive gas tank? I know I, for one, decided never to drive a truck again...it really is a shame that such one-sided - junk- is shown on national TV without the alternative point of view.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martya View Post
I read a story of a woman who, due to state carry restrictions, had to leave her gun in her car when she was meeting her parents at a restaurant. Eating with her parents someone opened up inside the restaurant and killed and wounded a bunch of people, IIRC her parents were included. Her interview on TV was much to the effect that if she had been allowed to carry her firearm inside the restaurant she would have had a chance at defending herself, her family, and the people inside, perhaps reducing the magnitude of this tragedy. I recall the state changed the law regarding restaurant carry not long after that. Sorry I don't recall which state or when.

Of course, THAT would never make national TV.
That would be the Luby's massacre in Killeen, Texas on October 16, 1991. The gunman killed 23 people and wounded 20.

Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In response to the massacre, the Texas Legislature passed a shall-issue gun law in 1995 which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License, removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:14 AM
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Hmmh! You hand a bunch of newbs a weapon, give them a dozen shots at 2 yards for familiarization, give them bulky holster in the appendix position, stretch a tight T-shirt over it and make them wear goalie gloves. Then you send in a highly trained "perp", who knows there are "armed" individuals in the room. Guess what happens.

In a real situation, the perp probably has little or no training and given the current political environment, has little reason to expect armed resistance in a school room.

Secondly, and more important, the subjects had every reason to expect an armed attack (it was the purpose of the demonstration). This constitutes "condition red" in CQC terms - weapon out and ready. Instead, the subjects did what they were told. CBS is telling everyone that resistance is futile. I'm not hearing it! Situational awareness is an acquired skill. Surprise and deceipt is tactical advantage. High Noon was just a movie.

Finally, drawing from concealment takes practice. Drawing from under a cover garment is especially difficult. You have to choose your clothing carefully and practice until you get it cold (Airsoft guns are very useful in this fashion). Funny that the subjects weren't taught something basic, like the Hackathorn Rip.

Like so many journalistic (and scientific) endeavors, the conclusion was drawn then the experiment was set up to support that conclusion.

FACT: Firearms are used to thwart criminal attacks as frequently as 2.5 million times a year.

FACT: The weapon is actually fired only in 1% of the incidents. Most of the time, the perpetrator runs or surrenders. These incidents are largely unreported.

FACT: When the weapon is fired, the perpetrator is killed or seriously wounded only 10% of the time, or 1 in 1000 incidents. The statement that you are more likely to be killed by your own weapon is an unfounded myth.

Last edited by Neumann; 03-10-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:32 AM
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If everyone in that room was TRAINED and ARMED instead of just one, the perp would not have made it, in-fact he most probably would have chosen a different venue possibly knowing that fact.
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