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Old 06-07-2011, 10:43 PM
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Default Georgia-retired LEO firearms qualification

I noticed in another thread that some retired LEO's are having a hard time finding an agency to qualify them in order to carry a firearm on their retirement credentials.
Our agency will qualify you if you live in the Northeast Georgia area (actually, I don't care where you live, but that is where we are located, you can come from anywhere as far as we are concerned)...we have done it for several retired state, federal and local officers. Typically we do it in the fall once it cools down a bit. However, if you are interested please post in this thread, and email me at sberry@oconeesheriff.org and please put RETIRED LEO in the subject line.
Unfortunately, we can not provide ammunition to retired shooters. However, we don't charge for the range time or the instructors, and it usually ends up being a pretty good time for all who choose to attend.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:16 PM
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I salute you! Your agency is doing a great thing. I am retired from NYPD and live in VA. In recent years VA started guidelines for the LEOSA act. I can now carry in all 50 States. The NYPD refuses to set up a program like that. They will give us a carry permit good in NY State but that is it, they want to ignore the LEOSA. Yet they want retired NYPD Cops to sign up for a program to assist the Department, should a catastrophic event like the WTC happen again. All take and no give.

From a public safety standpoint, you are smart to encourage retired law enforcement to carry. Thanks for your doing the right thing for retired Cops and the community at large.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:07 AM
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Texas has this in place, as well. The state issues a Qualification Card to me annually. The Texas qual card, along with my retired sworn peace officer creds from California, allow me to carry in all 50 states.

These other states should get with the program.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:06 AM
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Sheriff you are to be commended! The situation in the state of Washington is ridiculous. I understand they FINALLY came up with an acceptable course of fire to qualify but no agencies (including those we retired from) will accommodate us. It's nice to see someone do the right thing!
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Old 06-08-2011, 06:26 AM
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Great work Sheriff, keep up a the helpful and winning attitude. LEO'S need all the help they can get for the present and past service to their communities. The misguided and Politically Correct influenced attitude of some departments is unfortunately a deplorable condition that exists. Times change and not always for the better, but we can hope and pray for more reasonable and better times ahead.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:23 AM
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My former Department qualifys us retired guys but won't do other agencies, even though we provide training and qualifications to all the Feds and many local jusrisdictions in our county. Bummer. I think we retired guys need to contact our House and Senate people and try to get the law amended to read "Must" instead of "may" or if nothing else allow retired guys (gals too) to carry in all 50 if they have a concealed permit from their home state......since we no longer have arrest powers I dont know why we have to qualify to departmental standards....Too bad about NYPD's draconian stance and shame on departments who won't honor the LEOSA act. I was on South Caronlias web site and their law as I understand it mandates qualification but I believe it says S.C. retired officers.....would be open to interpertation as to others.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:35 PM
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+1 on jtpr's idea.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:35 PM
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I don't understand why agencies DON'T do it....My range officers are there ANYWAY.....they are getting paid whether one deputy shoots, or two hundred shoot.....I don't get it
Guys, thanks for all the kind words.....I appreciate them
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:39 PM
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Good job Sheriff. Even tho it's not an issue for me personally thanks for all the others in your state.
Not a problem here in IL as the state set up a program right after LEOSA was enacted. I realize a lot of states weren't so well off. It's great to see an agency who is willing to help a brother/sister.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xray97 View Post
Sheriff you are to be commended! The situation in the state of Washington is ridiculous. I understand they FINALLY came up with an acceptable course of fire to qualify but no agencies (including those we retired from) will accommodate us. It's nice to see someone do the right thing!
I agree with xray97. Luckily my old department will qualify us RLEOs' and have also done it for some from other agencies.

From what I've heard through the grapevine the reason some agencies are refusing to certify RLEOS' is their concern of liability if a RLEO should be involved in a shooting. Personally I think they are "over-thinking" the liability issue. All their range officer is certifying is the RLEO did or did not meet the minimum proficiency score of the state's recommended course of fire. The range officers are not "training" the RLEOS'...they are only "certifying they have met the state's minimum proficiency score"....the RLEOS' better be able to shoot before getting to the qualification range. (how many state drivers license examiners have you heard getting sued because they certified an individual for a drivers license and then they caused a serious vehicle accident?....I've never heard of one...a similar parity)

For this very reason HR218 was amended to make it possible for a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State to certify RLEOS'.

Here is the amended section of HR218 which applies: (4) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

*xray97* Just a thought but I wonder if your local FOP would would step up to the plate and provide a member who is a certified firearms instructor to certify your RLEOs. They might not be able to use the LEA's firing range but I'm sure there are public ranges that you could use. It also could generate a little money for them if they wanted to charge a reasonable fee.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:04 PM
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I don't want to hijack my own thread, but I am nearly sick to death of instructors and administrators who scream LIABILITY at the top of their lungs to avoid doing anything......about anything....
As a matter of fact, I am satisfied that we are scaring rookies TO DEATH with the "L" word, to the point where we are losing good peace officers due to the fact they are slow to react when they need to...however, I will save that for another day
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:46 PM
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At this time, I don't believe Vermont has a State wide policy or standard. However, if you have an interest in getting certified in my area (Essex Junction, or Chittenden county for that matter) reach out to me through a PM and I will find out what you need to do. I am pretty sure my department will do it for you, as we have talked about it among the firearms instructors. I don't think it has actually come up yet, as Vermont doesn't require a CC permit.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:27 PM
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Sheriff,I also congratulate you .It appears that you are one of the few remaining rational thinking department heads that I am aware of that still exist God Bless You and its an honor to have you as part of our law enforcement community.I retired from an Illinois department in 2005 and was able to qualify with them for five years until our Chief retired.One of the first questions the new chief was asked when he was appointed by the new mayor was "why are we still doing this "when the retired guys came in for their yearly qualifications.The new chief said duh I dont know and abruptly cancelled the retiree qualifications.As ISP Capt said Illinois has a very good retiree qualification program and I was able to take advantage of it.With the new amendment to the leosa however I will now qualify with my brother a certified Illinois law enforcement firearms instructor .Oh and a side note the new mayor,believe it or not, is a retired deputy chief from my department who I served with for 28 of my 30 years.Just goes to show how big some little peoples heads get or to borrow a quote hes a legend in his own mind.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:35 AM
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*xray97* Just a thought but I wonder if your local FOP would would step up to the plate and provide a member who is a certified firearms instructor to certify your RLEOs. They might not be able to use the LEA's firing range but I'm sure there are public ranges that you could use. It also could generate a little money for them if they wanted to charge a reasonable fee.



I think that's going to have to be the route we take. It doesn't appear that any of the local dept.s are going to help us out. I think we may have trouble getting any currently working range officers to help us either. I suspect their immediate question will be "why won't the dept. qualify you?". After they've heard some vague, non-existent, liability issue from the dept. they'll fear some attached liability on their part.
I hate to sound like an "old timer" but 25 years ago the retired deputies/officers would have been invited to a dept. qualification shoot and the dept. would have placed a sticker or something on the back of our "retired" commission card indicating our qualification every year. It would have been treated as an informal reunion and everybody would have had a good time. I miss those days and that mindset.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:49 AM
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NY is out of control only a employed PO/firearms instructor can provide the LEOSA course. If you are an instructor and retire, you can't train for the LEOSA act. Thankfully, some agencies have a course for retired Officers. In Va, it is instructors approved by the VSP. I went to a private range, who was on the VSP list, completed the qualification course and got my LEOSA card. NY retired Cops, still living in NY have to go to a few PD's who offer the training. NYPD refuses to do it.

I would like to caution retired Cops that you no longer have Police powers, instead of probable cause, you need "In fact committed" circumstances, before you take action. As a retired Cop, I would just state irrefutable facts, like the perp pointed or fired a weapon at me, I discharged my firearm and I would like to make no further statements before I speak to my lawyer.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheriffoconee View Post
I don't want to hijack my own thread, but I am nearly sick to death of instructors and administrators who scream LIABILITY at the top of their lungs to avoid doing anything......about anything....
As a matter of fact, I am satisfied that we are scaring rookies TO DEATH with the "L" word, to the point where we are losing good peace officers due to the fact they are slow to react when they need to...however, I will save that for another day
It is all articulation and knowing when to keep your mouth shut.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:13 PM
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My hat's off to you for doing this. Very cool.
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:49 PM
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Keep spreading the word Sheriff!!! Enjoy your posts on this and other forums.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:54 PM
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Riddle me this: My LE Firearms Instructor Certification is permanent though I'm retired.

Where does it say I can't "qualify" retired LE officers to comply with the LEOSA?
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:10 AM
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Riddle me this: My LE Firearms Instructor Certification is permanent though I'm retired.

Where does it say I can't "qualify" retired LE officers to comply with the LEOSA?

It all depends on what your State standards for law enforcement firearms training is. Here in Va, VSP approved ranges qualify you. In NYS, it has to be an active (as in employed as a sworn PO) law enforcement firearms instructor. In NYS once you retire from a Police agency as a firearms instructor, you are no longer certified.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:48 PM
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Good job Sheriff!! Sheriff O is a stand up guy, if I didn't already have a standup Sheriff in Rockdale I'd be movin' to Oconee!

Cheers,
Sam
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy
Riddle me this: My LE Firearms Instructor Certification is permanent though I'm retired.

Where does it say I can't "qualify" retired LE officers to comply with the LEOSA?


It all depends on what your State standards for law enforcement firearms training is. Here in Va, VSP approved ranges qualify you. In NYS, it has to be an active (as in employed as a sworn PO) law enforcement firearms instructor. In NYS once you retire from a Police agency as a firearms instructor, you are no longer certified.
I just got a ruling from the Alaska Police Standards Council. My certification is still valid as long as I instruct at least one class every three years, which I have.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:02 PM
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Default Georgia LEOSA Qualifications

In Southeast Georgia (Brunswick/Glynn County) our FOP lodge sponsors qualifications for retired LEOs (federal, local and state) multiple times each year (usually eight times).

The Glynn County Police allow us to use their firing range and Georgia POST requires that a POST certified instructor conduct the qualifications. The cost is generally free to participants although we do ask for a small donation ($2) to cover the cost of the targets, staples and staplers. The county does not charge us for the use of their range and the instructors are volunteers.

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Old 02-05-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
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In Southeast Georgia (Brunswick/Glynn County) our FOP lodge sponsors qualifications for retired LEOs (federal, local and state) multiple times each year (usually eight times).

The Glynn County Police allow us to use their firing range and Georgia POST requires that a POST certified instructor conduct the qualifications. The cost is generally free to participants although we do ask for a small donation ($2) to cover the cost of the targets, staples and staplers. The county does not charge us for the use of their range and the instructors are volunteers.
What is your course of fire? These old eyes are not as good as they used to be.
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Old 12-27-2021, 07:52 PM
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I just retired from NYPD and moved to Georgia and no one near the Augusta area does HR-218 qualifications and when I inquired it seems no one even knows what it is. Online, it says the Columbia County Sheriff's office does it, but when I went there, no one seems to have even heard of HR-218. I'm feeling kind of screwed.
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Old 12-28-2021, 08:22 PM
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HR218 is not the proper reference although a lot of folks use it. That reference only applied until it was enacted as LEOSA. The correct statutory citation is 18 USC 926(b) for active officers, 926(c) for retirees.

Washington: There is a statute (RCW 36.28A.090), and it was obviously written for hand wringers.

However, on the decent side of the state there are multiple resources. There are regular shoots at the Spokane PD range as of the last I knew. There are other agencies that will qualify retired LE (I think my client is one) and you can also do it at Sharp Shooting in Spokane and The Range in Selah. I'm familiar with all of them.
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Old 12-28-2021, 08:55 PM
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I am not sure how it is done in other parts of Colorado but here, the Sheriff offers it once a year to all retirees residing in the county and has also helped out some from neighboring area as well. It used to be offered at the Votec where the local academy is located but due to some scheduling issues with the range, I have offered our local rod and gun club here in town of which I am the president, to conduct the qualifications. The Sheriff has a retired LEO firearms instructor who does it and I assist him. The Sheriff issues the cards. I offer the range free of charge but the LEO's are welcome to make a donation to the club if they wish.
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